Which gives REL_Dovahkin's points more weight, don you think? With the limited supplies lying around, would holding someone prisoner (or enslaved) really be a good idea for a small settlement? You'd need to be like Ashur to be able to do that and he's running an empire. The average Wastelander McWastie? No, not possible.

We're discussing this in relation to Fallout 4, c'mon man. The game gives you a cinematic for blowing limbs off, no matter if the guy is good or bad. It trivializes violence for our entertainment.

If I can own slaves in Fallout 4, you can guarantee I'm going to have some colonies set up lol. It's a game, and I'm going to play a bad guy if the game allows me to.

I now know what i am going to name at least ONE character in one of my next playthroughs

Eulogy Jones could do it, doesn't have to take an Ashur. All that is needed are bomb collars.

problem solved if i dont have the food to support him i well send him on a mission. say we have a wold problem our ghouls in a cave close our even supermutants. he kills them and returns. than i send someone to make sure the work is done. aftarward he is set free. if i have the food than he well be put to work say reparing the wall our digging a ditch. i would not beat him. yes the work well be hard. they would sleep in a small shelter outside the walls of the town as far as a riot. well its the wasteland everyone is armed. i wouldnt have more than maybe 5 or 6 at a time any others well be sent on a mission

You can say this about tons of slaves throughout history. "Those slaves fought us, they put the shackles on themselves." Needless to say its nonsense. Slavery is bad NO MATTER THE CIRCUMSTANCES. It doesnt matter what the slave did or how good a guy the owner is. This is basic stuff, and im shocked at how hard some of you are trying to justify it.

Dude, not what im saying. Playing the bad guy is fine, ill do a bad guy playthrough too eventually. Thats a necessary option for a game like this. My problem is when we have people trying to justify slavery in certain situations or call it a gray area. Its not ever justified and its not ever a gray area.

you have a right to belive what you want. do i see it as bad to make someone work for attacking my town? no. why? because the other options are kill him our set him free so he can do it agin. how do you justify just killing everyone?

History is full of these kinds of things, even worse things than slavery, and we don't talk about them or even acknowledge some of them. Think about how your own world, your life, has been impacted from choices made in the past, even the use of slavery. I don't believe we should be enslaving people, and I wish there were some alternatives to slavery in the past, but the past is full of brutality and loss of human life, just the same as it is today. Do you eat chocolate? 60-70% of cocoa is harvested with the use of child slaves in Cote D'Ivoire. It still exists today, and our own economy thrives on some use of it, from the making of shoes to chocolates, to even parts for your phone or computer.

I dont justify it. Its bad. In my mind killing them is the better option, they attacked, they lost, they are either dead in combat or running and escaped(which to be clear, the vast majority of enemy combatants will withdraw once they start taking casualties). I cant imagine being in a situation in which you capture an uninjured enemy attacking you that can be of use doing manual labor without medical attention. But for the sake of argument I have gone along with it. Its just a cheap way of saying "lol i wasnt looking for a slave, these guys practically put themselves in chains! Im still a good guy!" Your making the choice to use resources like food, water, and watching over someone to use them against their will. And lets be clear here, anyone treated as property will be viewed as such. How long until your eyeing up the girl you took? And why not, shes just a slave! How long before that guy you enslaved does something that annoys you and you start beating him? You might be going into it with good intentions, but seeing someone as less then you will inevitably lead to mistreatment. Slavery has its place in fallout. And its a cool way to roleplay sometimes. But your fooling yourself if you think you can justify it in any way, no matter what mental gymnastics you do.

I'm getting the strongest sense that some of us here think that we're debating whether or not it's OK to enslave criminals in our world rather than in the Fallout universe.

Your not actually disputing my point though. Im saying "slavery is bad no matter what." And your saying it still happens, I know that(sixual slavery is shockingly common in the United States), and the fact that it still happens does not make it ok. Nor does the fact that we might benefit slightly from it.

i dont justify it its not good our bad i see it ass suvirval. he helps build defense, help the farm, deal with the radroachs, hewould do the things that my man cant because they have their jobs to do. killing is no better. but if you put yourself in the fallout world and be honest . you couldnt say you wouldnt kill someone our use the person. yes in todays world their is no need for it and it would wrong. in the fallout world i see it as more of a grey area

Well, then we agree then.

I already answered this. If using a slave was absolutely necessary for my survival yeah, I would use one. It being necessary for me to survive does not make it any less evil. Killing is different, its simple self defense, you cant let them go, and your not going to exploit them. Both are bad but the option of killing them seems like the better one.

it comes down to view points i see as making them my worker the better of the 2

The thing is, arent you going to have to kill them eventually anyway? Or are you going to keep them until they are old and just a drain on resources more then a help? Or do you let them go, risk them coming back?

well it depends on the person i supose. if i belive that they have learned their lesson i well let him join the settlment. others i well let go. evryone deserves a second chance.

It would certainly give them a taste of their own medicine.

But batman-wise, if you lower yourself to their level, you're just as bad as them.

you forget batman faked hes own death to escape the law

So you're using your limited food and clean water for an enemy who was trying to kill your people.

You are tying up at least two guards [the guards aren't going to be happy working 24/7, so you need more of them for shifts] to watch an enemy who was trying to kill your people. [you can't leave them unguarded at night; possibility of sabotage has to be taken into account]

I'm not seeing the positive side of this at all.

Keep in mind you are talking about the people who are wearing one pauldron and wielding a tire iron and thought it was a great idea to attack someone wearing complete armor and using a machine gun. Do they sound like the type of enemy who would say, "Okay, you win, I'll be a nice guy now and do what you say."? As far as their coming back; anyone remember the one BOS fort that had an outpost under the bridge that was constantly attacked by raiders? No matter how many died and how many bodies they were running over/past to get cut in half by automatic weapon fire?

The only way to stop enemies like that is to stop them, permanently.

You don't need guards, you just need bomb collars. Hence Paradise Falls did it effectively. And Father Elijah.

guy run its police of the forums!!! in truth one guard and a collar would do just fine. wasting supply would be locking him in a cell and feeding him. while he well be earning hes keep intell he pays me off X amount of work

This is a pretty good point which I had not considered, I was arguing from the position that you are fighting a sane enemy. And not one so far gone from drugs or indoctrination that you might be able to control them comfortably if given the chance.

I also like how the pro slavery people assume slave collars are just this common item that you would have laying around. If you have have these collars, you are a slaver, plain and simple. Which pretty much ends this argument, use of slaves makes you a slaver, and therefor bad.

I agree morality is a social construct. The thing that most people forget is that pretty much every major country or empire had slavery in its foundations. I believe it is evil but at the same time, at times it can be a necessary evil. It's interesting that countries and empires start out using lots of slaves to build me create the empire/country but as soon as they reach a certain point, they cut away the practice.

Ingame it doesn't matter the morality of who is being enslaved, it's the action. But then again that can open up a whole another can of worms when u compare capital punishment of a murderer. I guess it boils down to the reason "why" behind the actions hence why I chose grey area.

Good is good and bad is bad regardless of social definitions. Slavery will always be bad. A society that views slavery as normal is an evil society. It's really straight forward. There is no grey - that sort of relativism is for apologists and those would would try to rationalize/justify committing wrong.