Indeed, I agree - unless you live in a society that has no death-penalty (because simply imprisoning people for certain crimes - like murder, [censored] and treason - is not enough!), in such a society enslavement should be an option (if the person guilty of such a heinous crime gets to live, they should have to do it on societies terms: Meaning they should become the servants of society and do everything: From hard labor to serving someones drink and doing paperwork (whatever is needed more or less))

greetings LAX

ps: That's my gripe with the law in Germany (I live there!), we don't have an adequate punishment for capital crimes (and German prisons are a holiday resort compared to most of the world's prisons!) -.-

It's easy for most people to make judgement calls when a crime or tragedy never hits home or affects them personally. Ask victim's family members who were personally affected by the actions of adam lanza or dylan roof, how they feel about it.

Are you suggesting that the victims' families would want the ones who killed their loved ones enslaved?

Who knows what they would want unless you ask? My point is exactly what I stated. It's easy to make judgements calls about something you have not been personally affected by. You may or may not have a different opinion if you are personally affected.

What I will say, is that these families would like to see justice. Life imprisonment with no chance for parole at the bare minimum. Which is still slavery since you have no freedom and are now owned by the state.

No, it isn't.

"Two wrongs does not make a right" fallacy.

depends how bad they are and if the enslavement would serve as a way of punishing bad behaivor.. like prison (with work).

No.

Well, given the context of the setting, what's the point of enslaving the bad guys? They'll consume all your resources, break tools, sabotage stuff, and probably murder you and your friends in your sleep. Not a good idea for the average Wastelander. Since there's apparently no jail (which I can't understand but whatever), the only way to deal with a bad guy is to kill them.

Oh, and DEATH IS A PREFERABLE ALTERNATIVE TO SLAVERY!

We can agree to disagree with that one.

This to the fullest.

Do we know if you can capture/enslave people in F4 or is this just speculations?

Why "fallacy"?

Just speculations at this point.

I think it should be less OWNED by the state but PUNISHED by the state. They shouldn't be paid, given unfavourable times of working (Not to death or collapse, not inhumane) and make amends for all there [censored] until they worked it ALL off.

Yes, unless you've got some twisted Legionite worldview where only the slavers are the good guys and everybody else deserves the honor to be their slaves.

Tru

To be sure, the idea of prisons is to keep the criminals away from polite society and, hopefully rehabilitate them. Slavery doesn't do this. Slavery just says, “I don't care about your worth as a human. I don't care about trying to make you a better person. I want you to work for me. Work like a dog. I get to treat you as cruelly as I want to and no one's going to give me lip about it.” That's what slavery is. It's not rehabilitation, it's treating a human being like property. To put it plainly, slavery is looking at a human being as if they were mere cattle fit only for labor.

I think the idea is more or less, ‘Even if that Raider scum did deserve slavery, do we even have a moral right to do that? What would that make us?’

Slavery doesnt have to be cruel it can be very humane with work shift, free medicine, shelter and free food. there isnt even that much difference between normal work and slavery if you take a careful look at it except for the part that with slavery youre owned completely by somebody and with work youre free to go anytime.

I think the core disagreement people are having here is the word itself: slavery. Those that would be steadfast against slavery (like me) would not consider ~imprisoning~ raiders and even forcing them to work off their debt to society to be 'slavery'. Yes, they have no freedom and are required to work, but they are not beaten and are treated humanely and are not considered "property" as such: they are -prisoners-. Presumably it would be possible for them to serve their sentence, be rehabilitated and re-enter society.

Of course, this is largely moot as I doubt that this will be an option, and frankly in the setting with which we are presented, I doubt I'd even bother if there WERE such an option. Expediency dictates that if you are a raider, you die, period. In such a world, I would be much less willing to give people the benefit of the doubt, that they can be reformed or that somehow they don't deserve death for their violent assault on me or my settlement.

OK, no. With slavery everything is the property of the owner. Including you and your family.

Here's an example.
An employee working at Bethesda Games Studios IS working, but the manager is required to pay the employee a certain number of money per however long the employee works per day. Said employee doesn't have to worry about the manager deciding to sell him/her to another company for profit. Said employee doesn't have to worry about the manager selling his/her family for profit. The employee knows he/she has rights. They can go to court if the manager is trampling on said rights. And, as you said yourself, they can even leave.

With slavery, *EVERYTHING* is the property of the owner to do with what they will. A slave has no right, has no freedom. It doesn't matter if the slave owner treats his/her slave like their darling little children, the slaves are his/her PROPERTY. At best, they are like pets rather than cattle. A slave can't take matters to court, has no say so in...anything. All that 'free' stuff? Because the owner was feeling generous. The next one can decide the slave deserves none of it and force the slave to sleep naked on the cold stone floor. A slave can't leave the property. A slave has to live knowing that he/she and/or his/her family can be sold away at any time for profit.

Being a paid employee is nowhere NEAR the level of slavery. I can't even believe we're having this discussion.

Slavery is always evil.

Twisted? They brought civilization to the wasteland. I thought the ending sequence for them was very poignant. Out of all the different endings, only the Legion brought stability. From our standards today, they might seem ruthless, but our situation is driven by the industrial revolution. They're trying to rebuild from a post apocalyptic event. Many historians realize the importance of the slave economy in our history at least in the ancient world, where it wasn't driven by race. We could go into depth here, but to keep it Fallout related, they're trying to rebuild. The Legion, while at first ruthless and barbaric, we're bringing order to the world.

Is this a serious question? I don't know who voted no. Enslavement of humans is something that plagued humanity for countless years. To say it is ok because people are 'bad' is repulsive.

Meh, I don't really care if some murderer or what-ever is put to work for the duration of his sentence.

If it's an option, I'm enslaving everyone.