Entropy and conservation of energy

Post » Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:54 pm

I've been thinking lately about how real world concepts and physics could explain ideas in TES-games. I just want to share my thoughts and hear what you have to say about it, as well as asking two questions.

Real world: Entropy always increases, making the world more and more complex as energy and thus particles are spread out all the time. If we could put a simple number scale on the entropy, 0 would be the state of the universe during big bang as all energy, matter and everything was gathered in a very small space. This could be called perfect order. According to one theory (which I think Stephen Hawking backs up) nothing could happen here as time must have stood still, lets say this is true to make it fit my TES-comparison. It's not that important that nothing could happen there for this post's sake. But something happened and energy and matter started spreading out into chaos, thus increasing the entropy. A law of physics is that entropy always increases, so this will just continue on and on. TES-universe: Say that the state of perfect order is ANU, or IS, as it would not do anything and everything was in perfect order. The entropy that made it do stuff would then be Padomay. As entropy always increases, matter and energy will finally be be spread out into nothingness unless some other force we don't know of can change this, thus becoming IS NOT. Without Padomay (entropy) there wouldn't be change or creation, without Anu (stasis) there wouldn't be anything at all. Their interplay created the perfect gray, where the would exists. Don't know where I am going with this, but I thought is was an interesting comparison. Any other thoughts on this? In terms of the physics I've applied or just an expansion perhaps?

As for the questions: In terms of conservartion of energy, energy can not be made or destroyed, just change shape and form. If we also apply the rule that entropy always increases, wouldn't this mean that the world always turns slowly towards IS NOT unless something change this? It is stated that there are some laws of nature that everything must abide to in the TES-universe, but these could be bendt to some degree. Do you think the law of entropy (is present in TES) could be avoided? Or do you think that this is perhaps the reason as to why we need someone to become a dreamer of his/her/its own, so existence would not cease to be? Maybe this is the only way to continue on?
And also, if the law of conservation of energy applies, can this be avoided? If it can't be avoided, does this mean that the Magne-Ge in Atherius constantly lose some energy to mundus through the stars as being can gather magicka that leaks through it?

Please come with some thoughts about this, questions and the introduction. Is there maybe something to this? Is it just an interesting correlation? Or am I just really wrong?
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James Potter
 
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Post » Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:37 am

While you are correct in saying that entropy is always increasing in the universe, the one fuddling point is that it doesn't necessarily mean that complexity does as well. Entropy is the permanent and unbreakable tendency for heat transfers to occur only one direction, from areas of high heat to low heat. Thus, any energy conversion will ultimately result in some heat build up (wasted energy) that will get dispersed into areas of lower and lower heat concentration until it cannot anymore (space). Another common definition of entropy is that things always tend to fall into bonds that are stable and easy to maintain, for energy purposes. Now while these bonds are "complex" from a big bang perspective, they are relatively simple from a "life" perspective. Life is an enigma in the theory of entropy because life did get more complex. From unicellular organisms came multicellulars, and so on and so forth all the way up to us, with the most complicated object in the universe existing in the skull of you and I.

However, true entropy, that is wasted energy in the form of heat, is, as we know it to be, completely and totally irreversible. Countless hours of research into materials that can convert matter into energy with minimal heat loss has been undergone, and rightfully so, but most scientists are in agreement that once energy is lost as heat, there is no way to reconvert that energy into something useful, for almost the same reasons we can't convert light into mass despite the equation E=mc(squared).

Whether or not true entropy is a law in the TES universe is beyond my knowledge. It comes down to the nature of the Void itself and Anu/Padomay. Are they merely creations of the Void and bound to an already set of physical laws, or are the creations (Aedra and Daedra) and subsequent creations (Mundus) completely within their control to make.

My guess is a bit of both. If the Void had existed before anything, then it most certainly had its own laws. These laws would have made it possible for Anu/Padomay to spring into existence in the first place, and once that happened, the subsequent deities had power to shape Mundus within the laws of the Void.

Who knows, perhaps the Void in the TES universe is off birthing deiteis similar to Anu/Padomay all over space, creating a multitude of worlds and gods that are unconnected to Mundus but still in the same universe. Perhaps the Dwemer's disappearance is related to such a discovery.
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jodie
 
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Post » Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:59 am

Though some real-world physics might relate to TES. I think they are just to different to use our physics to make theories on TES physics. For example, our sun is a big ball of plasma and the TES sun is a portal. Though our sun is responsible for energy. The TES sun is (correct me if I'm wrong) responsible for magic. Though, if plausible, then I would be highly interested being a study of physics myself.
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Dawn Porter
 
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Post » Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:28 pm

Though some real-world physics might relate to TES. I think they are just to different to use our physics to make theories on TES physics. For example, our sun is a big ball of plasma and the TES sun is a portal. Though our sun is responsible for energy. The TES sun is (correct me if I'm wrong) responsible for magic.

IIRC, magicka does tend to automatically flow from Aetherius (high magicka concentration) to Nirn (low magicka concentration), as would be predicted by RL physics.
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luis ortiz
 
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Post » Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:02 pm

And then this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_hole - holes to Aetherius...

I'd also say that the concept of "Padomaic" stuff includes our ideas on entropy and random mutations.

In Michael Moorcock's works, Chaos as the force was always assosiated with entropy, and in general felt as one of the inspirations for TES Padomay.
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carley moss
 
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Post » Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:41 am

nvm
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Isabel Ruiz
 
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Post » Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:12 am

Look y'all, entropy is just a mathematical transformation of the number of possible states of a system. The Second Law of Thermodynamics is a consequence of the fact that macroscopic systems with more possible states are overwhelmingly more likely to exist. Nothing defies this; all life is entropically favored. See http://chemed.chem.wisc.edu/chempaths/GenChem-Textbook/Thermodynamic-Probability-and-Entropy-626.html for an explanation of thermodynamic probability and entropy.

Existence in TES is a fractured hallucinating god, and Nirn's laws of nature are sacrificed bits of gods, so I don't know that these concepts are really applicable.
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brandon frier
 
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