Let's face it: the horses in Oblivion were less than impressive. The controls felt choppy. You couldn't attack from the horse. Shadowmere was invincible, and you could exploit his body into becoming a pack mule. Generally speaking, horses were handled in an uninteresting manner. As it stands-for those of you who don't know-horses are unconfirmed, and may not make it into Skyrim.

The question that Bethesda is facing, and one that I'm particularly interested in, is: How can horses be presented in a meaningful, and intelligent way in Skyrim?
Should Horses be left out of Skyrim?

I personally think that horses would be a good addition to Skyrim, but definitely not if they will be used the same as Oblivion.

How should Bethesda handle horses, what changes (if any) should be made if Horses are to be implemented into Skyrim?

Bethesda is trying their hand at horses, while I agree with the notion get it right or don't do it. I don't agree that they are basing the bar to that of RDR, RDR was designed with such instances, such was a major focus of the game. beth would have to show the same commitment for horses as they did Dragons if their talk of Dragons is as impressive as they make them out to be. its not like horses were a big thing in Oblivion, you saw them, rode, them but they weren't and integral part of the game, an Horses were just vehicles with complicated PC movement, the instantly hit top speed and stopped on a dime just like the Player did


if there is momentum in movement and staged running to top speed, I don't see why Horses couldnt be implemented much the same as they were in Oblivion

Well what we do know is that Todd stated that the horses in game right now are pretty good, but if they don't work out in the end, they'll scrap 'em.

As for your poll, I vote yes to horses. Hopefully they'll be in, but if not....Meh, not a huge deal.

Horses certainly don't add immersion any more than a silt strider from Morrowind would. It's just an animal.

I also don't understand the obsession with fighting on horseback for some people. I have literally no interest in doing so. I certainly wouldn't object to it, and I have no problems with it, I just don't see what makes it so desirable. It seems impractical and cheap.

That said, I'd like horses to be in Skyrim. I don't give a damn if they're exactly the same as they were in Oblivion. I had no problems with them then and I'd have no problems with them again. I don't need Red Dead Redemption horses to be satisfied. Not everything has to be as good as any other game. I want a horse for the sake of riding on its back and having an animal companion. Oblivion achieved this. Anything else is just extra that I'm not concerned about.

Yeah just take away all animals in the game. The level of immersion will absolutely stay the same.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

I actually believe that Bethesda has the horses looking as good as Red Dead Redemption right now. The problem is creating meaningful gameplay out of riding a horse. Does combat feel good? Are horses behaving like a mode of transportation or a faithful companion? Bethesda just doesn't want to copypaste the horses from RDR.

If there is mounted combat in Skyrim, then spears and lances are not optional.

I hope horses are in-game however I hope there are some more "tougher" mounts in-game...maybe mammoths? I can picture myself riding along on a horse only for a dragon to attack and devour my horse in one bite.

So we're both 1 for 1 on fallacies. Yours of course being that all animals in Skyrim offer the same amount of immersion to the game, close to none.

The point of posting that was to point out that that was not my argument. My argument is that a single animal is not going to add to immersion.

Imagine if Oblivion never had horses but, let's say, it had silt striders and a secondary version of fast travel in the Morrowind style. If anyone found themselves thinking "you know, the lack of horses in this area is really reminding me that I'm playing a video game" then they are insane. I'm starting to think people don't know what "immersion" means anymore and they're mistaking it for a "similar to the real world" concept or something.

Horses and other mounts should be in for sure, at least as pack mules for other NPCs
I admit, I don't used horses much in TES4, but seeing soldiers patrolling roads on horses made that world look slightly more believable (illusion shattered when SINGLE mounted soldier encountered some hostile creature and CLIMBED down every single time for attacking it)
Patrols should consist of at least 2 or 3 soldiers armed with ranged weapons and swords (or spears, I know spears are out, but I wanted spears not for using myself, but more to see NPCs using them- I only use one hand blades anyway)
Anyway at least NPCs need to have rideable mounts and mount combat (I always wanted to be part of combat that took place in second Lord of the Ring movie, when orcs ambushed caravan riding carnivore mounts. Maybe some khajiit bandits riding on Sanche or Sanche-rath?)

Horses are a universal form of transport, while slit striders are regionally locked by lore. Besides alternative fast travel isn't akin to travel by foot or mount. Surely I could use a slit strider to fast travel to a city, but I'll still have to walk by foot in the wilderness, so the offered content is not the same. Therefor lack of a mount detracts from the potential immersion, simply for the fact that we know horses exist universally (or at least in Daggerfall, Cyrodiil, and Skyrim) in TES.

And therefor any other ridable creature could be in place and offer the same effect.

To reiterate my point, horses themselves do not add anything to immersion. Especially in a universe with creatures like Dreughs, Cliff Racers, and any of the lesser Daedra. The absence of a single real-world animal shouldn't cause a loss of immersion for anyone. Mounted travel could be achieved with whatever animal or creature the developers want. Horses are not required for that.

Look, I didn't make this thread to provoke a debate.

Please ensure that your future posts are productive!

That wasn't your point though, the point you clearly made was that fast travel was equal to mounts so they weren't needed. Yet I still insist, even against your new argument, that leaving horses out would be meaningless, and detract from the game. Okay so you can ride a mammoth, it wouldn't replace horses just for the simple fact you have something to ride. Your argument is equivalent to saying, alright you have daggers so no need to have one-handed swords in the game. Horses are the baseline of mounts, not only should they be an option for the player to ride, but also for the NPCs. Most NPCs should find exotic mounts to be neigh impossible to acquire, and thus the void horses fill as a mount to create immersion.

That was not my argument, it was a small excuse to help paint the picture of Oblivion without horses. The dagger/swords argument is also not even close to what I'm saying. I'm clearly not communicating my point very well, so I'll just drop it.

Hey they weren't as bad as Two Worlds

I want horses. I don't mind if they are not perfect, they're just something I would really like in the game. Fighting on horseback is not a big deal for me though.

Yes, I think the horses in Skyrim, if put in, should work a lot like they do in Mount and Blade. If you knew about that game, you would be able to attack on horseback for sure, as well as cause damage by trampling; running into or over others. You should be able to put things into a sack contained on the horse's back, though. That would be helpful sometimes.

A problem I see with Horse Combat, is that it could be exploited.
There needs to be a way to dismount people from their horse, in a sensible way.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=party%20pooper

You know, I never considered there to have been anything wrong with horses in Oblivion. Sure, mounted combat would have been nice, but I never felt there was anything "broken" about having an animal to own and ride on.

I would miss not having a horse in Skyrim. I wouldn't even mind if they are implemented the same way as Oblivion, to have no horses is worse than having imperfect horses in my opinion.

I didn't even realise Bethesda had a horse issue at all until I started visiting Skyrim discussions.

Yes! We need upgraded horses and large battles on horse back.

I hope they're like the horses in Red Dead Redemption or Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood where you can call it anytime and practically anywhere, but otherwise it won't follow you everywhere you go.