Erik Heberling : V

» Sun Sep 26, 2010 6:58 am

Why did they let the guy who made the Daggerfall (and arena?) soundtracks go? He made the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2u9F7z6Nzk&feature=related In fact, Jeremy Soule seems to have http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ97I2p4_YY

I, for one, want Erik back.

» Sun Sep 26, 2010 7:02 pm

Why did they let the guy who made the Daggerfall (and arena?) soundtracks go? He made the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2u9F7z6Nzk&feature=related In fact, Jeremy Soule seems to have http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ97I2p4_YY

I, for one, want Erik back.

He took Morrowind's theme from house of the rising sun? :biggrin:

Anyway. I loved Daggerfall's music.

» Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:38 am

COOLEST AVATAR EVER. Whut. *jealous*

» Sun Sep 26, 2010 3:21 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmdPQp6Jcdk

» Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:03 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmdPQp6Jcdk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdxkVQy7QLM (from 2:10 and on)

» Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:59 am

Jeremy Soule is a fantastic composer / songwriter. I don't find Erik's melodies to be very catchy, or theme worthy as much as Morrowind's or Oblivion's have been. Erik's compositions sound very abstract, less structured and more about maintaining atmosphere than Jeremy's epic, melodic approach. I would go so far as to put Jeremy Soule in the same spectrum as Hans Zimmer or James Newton Howard. They are all very talented musicians and they have a profound ability to write melodies that really capture more than just atmosphere.

Jeremy Soule FTW. Love his work. Coming from a life-long musical background, I would take JS's pieces any day over Erik's. That's just my 2 cents.

» Sun Sep 26, 2010 5:20 am

Heberling's music, by far, has been the definitive Elder Scrolls style to me - moody and atmospheric, but with roots in the thematic feel of traditional music and each piece is just as memorable as the last.

One such Daggerfall track which I think would fit very nicely in Skyrim (and this one is an MP3 remake, so it may be easier to visualize within the context of a modern game) is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au06RRGbXqg. Very lonely and meditative, but with a light, fantastic air about it, especially at 0:29 when the other instruments appear.

» Sun Sep 26, 2010 3:28 pm

I love the tavern/inn music in Daggerfall (one of them). I've actually been thinking of doing a cover of it. Shame I can't find it on YouTube, but it's not the inn theme on there, I'm talking about a faster one.

I think the music on the first TES were far more eerie and depressing, sort of. But that's what I liked about it - you felt very alone and isolated in this huge world, and when you go into an inn or so, it felt very uplifting.

» Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:50 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmdPQp6Jcdk

I see the resemblance! Well, hear, I suppose.

» Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:59 am

Maybe he was good at 8-bit music, but svcked at symphonic music?

» Sun Sep 26, 2010 7:49 am

I doubt it. ^

» Sun Sep 26, 2010 8:57 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6040YawSp0 another Daggerfall remake I think is worth mentioning. Heberling's tracks, to me, are much more themed - dripping with emotion, which is important for establishing your situation within the game world. By comparison I find much of Soule's music to be pretty nondescript and "neutral" in feeling (or otherwise excessively grandiose during combat), but perhaps this is due to the limitations of MW/OB's music system?

If they went back to themes as they did with Daggerfall, I'd hope to hear more compositions that actually feel as if they have a purpose, much like Eric Heberling's.

Maybe he was good at 8-bit music, but svcked at symphonic music?

I'm thinking this is why. I mean, he's designing slot jingles at the moment so perhaps he just couldn't keep pace with modern soundtracks.

» Sun Sep 26, 2010 7:33 am

Heberling's music, by far, has been the definitive Elder Scrolls style to me - moody and atmospheric, but with roots in the thematic feel of traditional music and each piece is just as memorable as the last.

One such Daggerfall track which I think would fit very nicely in Skyrim (and this one is an MP3 remake, so it may be easier to visualize within the context of a modern game) is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au06RRGbXqg. Very lonely and meditative, but with a light, fantastic air about it, especially at 0:29 when the other instruments appear.

See, personally, that song does nothing for me. The counter melody is far too improvised and random - almost as if it was recorded in 1 take and he just had a go with a midi keyboard - and the main xylophone sound panned to the left is far too prominent in the mix when it should be more of a flowing progression to take the song into other modes or scales, etc.. I've never been particularly fond of Erik's stuff.. it all sounds like rough improv to me and if I can't pay attention to the music during game play to heighten my immersion, it serves no purpose for me. I could be biased for having a huge musical background, but still. Music and audio is huge for me, and I personally love Jeremy's stuff.

» Sun Sep 26, 2010 5:13 am

Both were amazing. But Soule is better in my opinion.

» Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:51 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6040YawSp0 another Daggerfall remake I think is worth mentioning

Damn. I can hear Lysander screaming "vengeance" inside my head. I've totally connected this track to him.

» Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:19 pm

For me Soule always felt a little generic. They're great compositions, but it feels like he has a pile of "fantasy music" sitting around, and when Bethesda asks he just gives them some at random. I've never felt a particular connection to the game world when I listen to his music. Heberling's music felt more closely tied to what was going on in the game.

A big help for Skyrim would be to bring back the specific locational music. This, more than the quality of compositions, is probably why so many people like Daggerfall's music. Hearing Heberling's stuff evokes memories of the taverns, the temples, the castles, the dungeons, winter days and summer days. Oblivion was slightly better at locational music than Morrowind, but it would be enormously helpful if in Skyrim each major city had a specific theme, for example. Is it just the cost of big composers like Soule that's preventing them from going this route?

» Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:28 pm

I love the tavern/inn music in Daggerfall (one of them). I've actually been thinking of doing a cover of it. Shame I can't find it on YouTube, but it's not the inn theme on there, I'm talking about a faster one.

I think the music on the first TES were far more eerie and depressing, sort of. But that's what I liked about it - you felt very alone and isolated in this huge world, and when you go into an inn or so, it felt very uplifting.

is this the one you were thinking of?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWs1nRyrAJA&feature=related

its kinda slow in this version but in game its faster.

» Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:17 am

is this the one you were thinking of?

Perhaps he's referring to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUxMrqFIvU4 one? I like this one myself personally, when played trough Soundblaster emulation it sounds like something out of a Popeye cartoon. :hehe:

Also, don't forget about the dramatic http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_-hz43Kei4 from Arena! It fit so well with the game, when you walked into the store and saw that colossal man pounding on a sword, dancing in the glow of the forge's flames.

» Sun Sep 26, 2010 5:21 pm

Jeremy Soule is a fantastic composer / songwriter. I don't find Erik's melodies to be very catchy, or theme worthy as much as Morrowind's or Oblivion's have been. Erik's compositions sound very abstract, less structured and more about maintaining atmosphere than Jeremy's epic, melodic approach.

I prefer Soule's atmospheric themes like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3f9MOr_7wg rather than his work in Oblivion.

Not for Skyrim, but in general.

» Sun Sep 26, 2010 8:50 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv9gNVRI1N0&feature=BF&list=PL242E38DC2C3DA1B7&index=7 (remastered). I really like the atmospheric and thematic tunes they had in Daggerfall. Much more situation-appropriate, and variety. Soule's work is decent, but the way MW/Ob compressed all their music into less than 6 categories really took out the vitality of the music.. it's all generic, because it can't account much for the situation the player is in. Exploring the elevated snowy hills of the Jeralls on a bright wintery day, and you have the same music as exploring the murky swamps of Blackwood at night, or the rolling hills of the Gold Coast during dusk. Being deep in a rickety Goblin-infested silver mine gave you the same dungeon music as a haunted, undead-filled Ayleid ruin full of magic. You get the same town music in rainy Leyawiin as the inside of the grand White-Gold Tower.

All these places are different, and deserve unique tunes to suit them.

» Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:15 am

I would definitely like to see area- specifcs as well.

» Sun Sep 26, 2010 6:38 am

Definitely think we should have some more structured way of doing music in Skyrim. Several tracks per area, divided by time and weather. Personally I was never big on combat music in TES games, and I felt much of the suspense in Daggerfall's fights came from how there was none - however since it's more or less inevitable, I believe combat music would have to be a bit more elegantly done in order to feel "right".

I wrote up a little proposal on this a while ago. I'll just leave my original post here:

If they use combat music, it should transition more smoothly and be chosen from predetermined categories based on a number of factors, like:

Risk
[LOW] - The player is in combat against a low-levelled enemy. Tracks are light, melodious and somewhat "playful". Or perhaps not present at all.
[MED] - The player is in combat against a relatively challenging enemy. Tracks have a deep, "tactical" feel about it like the tracks in New Vegas.
[HIGH] - The player is in combat against an enemy they've little chance of defeating. Tracks here can be as dramatic and dire as necessary.
[SPECIAL] - Any specialized tracks would go here, probably for use in scripted sequences or against certain unique enemies.

Engagement
[DIRECT] - The player is the one to attack the enemy first, or at least willingly charges into battle. These tracks are more "heroic" as in MW/OB.
[STEALTH] - The player is not aware of an impending threat and they're attacked suddenly by an enemy. Music should start up suddenly (like, with a flat note) and open with a frantic rhythm.
[APPROACH] - The player or the enemy begins combat with a distant ranged attack or spell. Music would build up slowly, so that it would sound fitting both within the context of the two combatants approaching one another or the player fleeing.

Other variables could perhaps be the time of day, whether or not you're in a public place, and your own character's health. But already this system would require an absurd amount of music tracks to sound appreciably different from the other games. :shrug:

» Sun Sep 26, 2010 7:44 am

Why did they let the guy who made the Daggerfall (and arena?) soundtracks go? He made the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2u9F7z6Nzk&feature=related In fact, Jeremy Soule seems to have http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ97I2p4_YY

I, for one, want Erik back.

Just because the two first chords are the same doesn't mean it's ripped off...

» Sun Sep 26, 2010 3:15 pm

Soule can make catchy melodic music as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ysisxLSfsg

I like it better when he uses a live orchestra
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gajD7rrp3s

» Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:24 pm

yeah i like jeremy, but im hoping skyrims music is less grand and more atmospheric, less of an ochestra following you pronouncing your arrival and more of a single flute player, quitely playing his flute to keep the cold and darkness at bay while wind swirls around you