Ok ok so they removed athletics and acrobatics to prevent people just jumping up and down to increase acrobatics, and because athletics just increases by itself, which I am totally in agreement with, those skills should totally be perks
HOWEVER

How did one increase sneak?

By going into sneak mode, pointing yourself at a wall, pressing Q, going to eat lunch etc etc...ok now you didnt have to do that, but honestly if you wanted it to really really go up...gaa you see what I mean? How have they fixed this!!!

by killing people while you are sneaking, seems a lot more interesting than walking

The difference is, EVERYONE runs, EVERYONE jumps. A warrior in heavy armor doesn't typically sneak, nor does a mage slinging spells every which way. Not everyone sneaks, so there's still value in increasing it by just sneaking around unseen.

I like this idea.

This.

Something like that is what im hoping but...how would that work exactly? I mean if you get sneak skill by killing enemies who aren't aware of you, then how would you increase it at the start of the game??? , because if you can instantly kill enemies when sneaking right at the start of the game then....well you see the problem obviously, and on the other hand if you get it by killing enemies while you are in sneak mode...well you see the problem there again, you would have to fight battles in sneak mode or switch to it quickly for the final blow, neither of which makes any sense

also with sneak you cant just go into sneak mode and walk you actually have to sneak up on someone to gain xp

This :foodndrink:

Not in oblivion

You would start off killing little things, like rats. Then you could kill medium things, like people, after you leveled up a bit. Finally, you could kill big things, like dragons, once you leveled up a lot. Typically how killing things go, but please don't quote me on this one.

Sneaking has nothing to do with killing, most thieves don't kill.


Yeah.


I thought that's how it worked in Oblivion, it certainly seemed like it.


I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

They "unfixed" this in Oblivion. In Morrowind, you could only level your sneak when you were pickpocketing something or picking up an item that isn`t yours while someone is nearby.

Not every thief wants to be an assassin.


So you don't think this obvious exploit needs to be fixed, REGARDLESS of the other skills?

The reason that giving exp exclusively for sneak attacks is that a decent sneaking system has to allow for you to sneak past an enemy. Hell, one of the best things about TES's unique approach to leveling is that it doesn't tie your advancement directly to killing things; you're not obligated to kill everything you see for "the exps." Taking that away would be a bad idea.

Yes in Oblivion. You have to be in range of someone detecting you. It WAS exploitable though if say in a dungeon an enemy is stationary and like was said if just walk into a wall while hidden but in range of detection you can grind the skill up. I think there are two sure fire ways of fixing this problem. ONE is that walking(sneaking in this case) while in constant contact with a collision mesh prevents leveling and TWO the NPC that could detect you must be in your line of site. With all they have done to balance the game and remove exploits I'm sure they've thought of something but there are always going to be some ways of exploiting game mechanics. Lets just hope it's minimal.

What about sneaking around enemies, such as an assassin might (to get to the main target) or a thief (to get to the loot)?

You can use this argument for a LOT of skills.

How did one increase armor? Find some rats, AFK.

How did one increase Restoration? Do it alongside the armor method using a Restore Health spell strong enough to keep you alive and weak enough that magicka regen covers the cost, then hold the button down and AFK.

How did one increase any non-Destruction magic school? Do the same thing.

Block worked the same as Armor.

The point is, you have to choose to do all of these things. You have to choose to fight in armor, or sneak, or cast spells. You had to choose to jump for the most part, but you did not choose to run. You leveled Athletics whether you wanted to or not. With the new leveling system, where all skills count toward a level, you're gaining levels whether you want to or not as well.

Everything that is required is that you stop walking/running when you hit a wall. They should still be able to hear you through walls and vice versa.

Why does it need fixing?
Why is it a problem?

Cant you just.. you know, not do that?
Its not an exploit btw. For the simple reason this is not an MMO.

This. When breaking into a house to steal in OB my first thought was never "o.k let me kill them while they sleep so I can run around freely.". I don't like to accumulate murders or kill innocents if it can be helped. And my fav missions in the DB and Thieves Guild were the kill restriction ones, no killing poses more of a challenge to sneaking as opposed to killing everyone in your way and having a safe way back.

that was kinda my first though, I would sneak into the jewelry shop in the imerial market or a guard tower, kill then take all their stuff sell it and make a bundle

These.



Not an exploit if you can sit there and legitimately do it with your fingers pressing the button/thumbstick. If you go AFK, then it's just a stupid exploit, yeah. It doesn't mean anything to anyone but you, though.

Granted, this has a really easy fix. One which I HEAVILY approve of.

It's this - Stop sneak skill gains when the PC isn't making forward progress/covering distance. Therefore running into a wall in the same spot would do nothing. Fixed. Easy. Bethesda, make it happen.

I disagree. Anything present in the game that allows you to circumvent the intended game play is an exploit. There is no way Bethesda intended for the skill to be leveled that way.

But..
You purposely devise a means to hold down a button to mimic a player and you want Bethesda to fix that?

I dont get this style of thinking at all. Not one iota.
So youre gonna have to explain it better I think.
Its not an exploit, this is a single player game. You are hurting no one but yourself.

1) I choose to do something totally optional, completely avoidable and as achievable through normal play.
2) I am not happy that I did this. I think I cheated myself.
3) Instead of thinking: Hey lets not do that again, I somehow cant stop myself.
4) The game is ruined
5) Time to complain.

Its a train of thought that just has no logic or sense to it.

Basically they could fix this by just having a level up screen where you pick which skills you increase, instead of all this guessing and second guessing as to how your character is built