Looking at the current graphics on Fallout 4 for the Ps4 I am stuck with a question of whether I would rather have Elder Scrolls 6 with that level of graphics and what seems like infinitely less bugs than Skyrim, would I want the game by the end of next year.

There are some considerations along with that. One of them is that it seems like they recycled many patterns from Skyrim when it comes to wood, rocks, plants, etc... And it seems likely that they would do the same with ES6. I have just about convinced myself that I would rather wait until 2019 because I really don't want to see the same old with slightly better graphics. But I also don't want to see all the bugs and garbage that came with Skyrim. I played Skyrim almost every day for 2 years, it was a game of games for me. I'm gonna vote ES6 2019 with a new engine. Unless they can make the game as different as I think it needs to be with what they have now.

What would you rather have: ES6(2016) current engine or ES6(2019) new engine?

In my opinion, graphics are not important.They don't make the game. Morrowind is an example of this. Same with the engine too.

Just enough time to make a deep story that is interesting and unique + orginial

Focus on story/quests, and character development

King

The Engine isn't the problem. The Engine is just a collection of game design tools that are used to make the process quicker, they aren't some hard-set restriction on... well... anything. Since Bethesda has absolute control over their engine (rather than being bound by contractual restrictions that limit the alterations they can make) they have free reign to do whatever they want graphically. If they were so inclined, they could out-do Cryengine. But they won't, because they aim for maximum performance range rather than going balls to the wall high fidelity (similar to how Blizzard does it's graphics).

That said, graphics don't matter that much to me. They are far and above the easiest thing to mod. I'd rather Bethesda go light on the graphics and spend more time on world, scale and story than try for some ultra realistic 8k resolution.

Even then though, 2016 for a new TES? Beyond optimistic.

Bethesda definitely needs to use a new engine.

But not because of graphics, that's inconsequential to the overall experience. They need a new engine because the current one is clunky and awkward, and it just feels like it's limiting what the games are capable of.

I think I have to disagree with you on that point

If they do a new engine, it will be an iteration on the Creation Engine, just like Unreal 5 is an iteration of Unreal 4 or idTech 6 is an iteration of idTech 5, whatever. Very few engines can do the same things the Creation Engine does, and I doubt any are as easy to mod or as familiar to Bethesda themselves. And remember, the Creation Engine is their in-house engine, so they have much more control over how to change and improve it and fine-tune it for their specific needs.

The only thing I think they need to completely redo in the Creation Engine is the physics. Right now they've got an implementation of Havok middleware that gets really weird at framerates above 60. Other things people attribute to the engine, like clunky animations or persistent ash piles, have little to do with the core engine. Consider how other games using Gamebryo compared to Oblivion - the recurring problems in Bethesda's games are Bethesda-specific, not engine specific.

Don't know if they'll do a Creation 2 for TESVI, though - they might just give the current engine some more fine-tuning and optimizations and ride that out for the rest of the console gen (which is realistically probably only going to last long enough for TESVI and any New Vegas-esque spinoffs they license to another studio). It's not like they need to build anything that far exceeds what the current-gen consoles are capable of.

This was my thought, too. A new engine would be well worth the wait, for me. Not for graphics, but rather to improve gameplay.

PS: Were others able to cast a vote? I tried the 2019 vote and got a "Must answer ALL questions." response

i think a new engine could certainly be beneficial.. even if the new one would be less moddable.. don't get me wrong, I enjoy mods as much as a next guy, but imho any studios first goal should be to put out the best vanilla experience they can, modability is just a bonus

I prefer to wait longer for a new engine...

I fixed the poll. It should work now.


(It previously was just loading a Error page)

Thank you, if you could send a link or message to me on how I can do the poll better next time that would be appreciated. This was my first poll I believe.

This is the most important thing to keep in mind. The Engine isn't the limiting factor. Bethesda's design and skill sets are. In fact, because they have so much control over the engine they use, they CAN do whatever they want, so long as they have the skills and the right modules. To use another Engine, they would be more limited becaue their contractual use of said engine would limit their ability to make changes.


Game Engines aren't something that wears out. I used to believe the same thing, bit I've since had that little misunderstanding cleared up... Most changes are just companies dedicated to making engines pushing new product in order to make more money, encouraging companies to enter into new contracts or fall behind since they can't mess around with the engine they're using.


So all a new Engine will do is force Bethesda to play by someone else's rules.

I want them to use the current engine. I adore the Netimmerse / Gamebryo / Creation engine and I hope they continue to use it (and to improve it) for many, many years to come. I think it is perfectly suited to the kind of non-linear, open-world games Bethesda makes. And when it comes to modding it is absolutely the most flexible engine I have ever worked with.

Gamebryo isn't an engine, it's a suite of modules to make an engine. Bethesda used the graphics module from NetImmerse (later renamed Gamebryo) for Morrowind, and either wrote or licensed other stuff to fit in the engine as they continued to use it.

The recurring problems are Bethesda-specific, but that's because of how Bethesda made and put together their engine.

Funny, considering how horribly their games perform. Even on beastly rigs, Fallout 4 can't maintain a consistent 60fps, and the graphical fidelity does not warrant that kind of performance. With weaker GPUs, performance is not as good as it should be either. And before you bring up the cost of AI, on a properly written engine that stuff should be spread across multiple cores, while the graphics are largely offloaded to the GPU, and so shouldn't affect each other that much.

I personally don't care about having a constant 60fps since I'm used to playing games on relatively weak PCs (where I'm lucky to get a consistent 30), but claiming they aim for "maximum performance range" is laughable.


Actually they are. As computers and consoles improve, there's a change in how to efficiently utilize them. 10 to 15 years ago, for instance, you generally worked with one core and used clever tricks to avoid processing what you didn't need to (and could rely on the increasing speed of processors to make up for the increase in complexity). But today, we've hit a wall with processor speed and have moved toward parallel processing, where rather than cleverly working out what to process and when, it's more about how to separate processing into independent tasks that work in parallel. Similarly, parallelization has brought processing speed to a point where the speed of memory access is an issue (whereas before, processors were slow enough to largely mask memory access speed, but that's not the case anymore with these newer paradigms), so even the way data is stored and accessed needs to be rethought. It gets to a point where building on older design philosophies doesn't work as it used to and it becomes a limiting factor.

Bethesda's games continue to break previous sales records. People are still making mods for and playing titles that are a decade+ in age. They're going to keep doing what they do.

I would like to see Unreal Engine quality character, equipment, and enemy models in a world built to be modded and highly interactive. I realize I should just wish for the moon, but it may be possible one day.

I was largely oversimplifying, but yes, you are correct. In howpeople generally view Game Engines, they don't 'Wear out', because they aren't a hard-line set in stone system. They are a collection of interconnected modules that produce an end result, more like an Engine than say, a support beam. Individual parts and even how they communicate wear out all the time. But people tend to visualise the whole, rather than the collection of parts, so even if you replace half the pieces they still see it as the same Engine.


In reality, it's even incorrect to say Bethesda has an 'Engine' that they reuse from game to game. They constantly change systems to maintain a relatively up-to-date Engine, rather than the often-cited use of the same Engine from game to game.


The reality is that Engines, as the gaming community generally understands them, are highly dynamic systems that change regularly depending on the user. They don't wear out as most gamers understand it, because they don't function as most gamers envision them. Unless restricted by a contract, any change to the system changes the Engine. So, I guess, it's something of a question of 'how much change constitutes a new Engine'. If it's all Jew systems, but assembled in the same way, is it a new Engine?


Frankly, an Engine only exists in the static moment it's used. If someone were to take the Creation Engine, as used in Skyrim, and make a game with it with no alterations. That's using the same engine. ANY changes to that constitutes a new Engine.


So, yes, it does wear out. Just not in the way gamers think.


The issues with data management and digital communications are something of a closing crisis for commercial computing, but only really relavant in foresight. In the future, there are going to have to be some major shifts in the underlying communications frameworks of games, but that's not really a new phenomenon. It's just a system that takes longer to wear out than, say, the Graphics rendering.


Performance range may have been a bad description. Playable range is probably more apt.


Bethesda has always been terrible at optimization, and their choice in systems has never been the most stable platform. But they are playable across a wide range of configurations and settings, as opposed to some other Engine designs which try to hone in on particular setups.

Mind you that the wait will be far longer than Skyrim to fallout 4


It will also come with more bugs and lots of new restrictions as its an new engine

Financial it would make no sense until next console generation

That's the first time I've ever heard gamebryo described that way. But I'm not sure what the major difference is - seems we're both saying that any problems with the engine come down to what Bethesda's done with it. The point is that either Bethesda attempts to address these bugs in their next iterations on the engine, or they adopt a completely new engine (and a completely new set of issues) - with all of the changes to programming and workflow that entails.

Thanks, Pluto

Really, I could not care less if it took until 2025 for TES VI. I want a good vanilla game, not a half-assed vanilla game like Skyrim is. Without mods, I would have never have made it past 500 hours played.

Using the same engine carries the same guarentees that a new engine does: None

The Elder Scrolls VI will 100% most definitely release for sale in either 2018 or in 2019.

2016 Belongs to Fallout 4.

As for Bethesda Game Studios using a brand new video game engine to develop The Elder Scrolls VI on or developing their own brand new video game engine from the ground up from scratch. I say there's a 50/50 chance.

I would prefer a new engine despite the risks and uncertainty it would bring, let alone the extended waiting time. I'm no programmer and don't know the basics of what is the engine's fault and what is Bethesda's skills to get the best out of one engine, but I can say I always think their games lack very much on the technical part of the execution, maybe a new engine could inspire them to be more up to date with technology.

*laughs hysterically*

I agree. They've tried to extend the lifespan of this engine long enough with the multiple overhauls. In the end, the very core of the engine's tools cannot be "updated". A new engine would improve performance and maybe allow for even more modifications.

About modding: Modders can learn to use new tools. As long as Beth continues to release sufficient tools to the public, the modding community won't be hurt.

Useless post as the likelihood of a TES:6 being released in 2016 is zero.