Hi!

I've come to the crossroad of choosing file type for my weather mod: .esm or .esp.
I wonder which one I should choose...
Here's my chain of thoughts below, and I ask here just so you guys think I'm thinking right.

My mod will contain a lot of weathers (and lighting - imagespaces) made by me, and then it will contain those weathers added to climates. The weather and lighting acts as "resources". They alone can't do any harm to the game, since they aren't activated. To activate them, I have to add them into climates.

My thought is that it's best to do an .esm file with just weathers and lighting, and have them act as resources. My thought is further than it's then best to have an .esp that adds the weathers into climates. That way, if something goes wrong there, I never have to redo all my weathers, since the .esm has them and is "safe" (it can't harm the game in any way). So this means, if some patch by bethesda decide to change weather in the game, I'll never have to redo my weathers in the safe .esm file. Only how they are added into climates with my .esp file.

Climates of Tamriel (a weather mod) is an .esm file which is why I started to think about this. Climates of Tamriel however also got the climates added into the .esm file, which in my opinion isn't a good idea because it something goes wrong with that, you have to redo all the weathers and lighting... which would be a nightmare.



My second question is simple but important: how do you save an .esm file? I can't find the save option in the CK... it's just an .esp option there.

ESM vs. ESP: ESM would probably be a good way to go as you could create supplementary DLC plugins, all sharing the common master with all the new forms. ESP's can have other ESPs as masters, but the CK doesn't allow for it while the engine does.

ESM creation: Change extension to ESM, open as "Active", and save. The CK will tick the internal flag to match the extension.

Thanks!
About .esm creation... so I should just first create an empty .esp and save it, then change file extention manually to .esm? I wonder though, how do I change the file extention to .esm?

No prob You'll find the CK cannot edit an ESM file as, once the internal flag is ticked, it will not allow it as "Active". You can convert an ESM to an ESP with Wrye Smash if you need to get back in there to edit something. I'd ESM'ify the resource file when it's completed, then add it as a secondary master to the plugins utilizing the new forms (ESM just has to be ticked when creating/editing for it to be added to master list).

Thanks again!

Alright, I'll do it as an .esp until it's 100% complete, then make it an .esm. And if I need to edit, convert back to an esp using Wrye Smash (too bad CK can't do that...). Good tip, thanks! I don't know how to use Wrye Smash though (or even what it is). I have Wrye Bash though...

But there's one thing I still don't know (or maybe you said it already and I just didn't understand it). How do I change the file extention to .esm?

To be able to change the file extension do the following:
- Open up an Explorer window in Windows
- Press Alt
- Click Tools in the toolbar that popped into view
- Click Folder options...
- Go to the View tab
- Uncheck Hide extensions for known file types
- Click OK

Now you can see the file extension in the file's name. To change the extension simply rename the file and change the .esp extension to .esm.

Extension change: Make sure in Windows' "Folder Options" > "View" tab, "Hide extensions for known file types" is unticked, then you can manually edit the extension.

WryeBash/Smash: They're the same thing. You can R-Click a file and "Copy to ESM/p", whatever the opposite of the selected file is.

Thanks a lot guys!

No, it sounds like you should go for a ESP. The only reason to go for a ESM is if your mod acts as a resource for other mods, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

There is a flaw in your thinking about patches. Patches are all applied to Update.esm, which is loaded directly after Skyrim.esm. This means that your ESP (which comes later in the load list) always overrides the changes in Update.esm. So even if Bethesda patches Update.esm, your mod still takes priority over whatever Bethesda changed. So in short: Don't worry about Bethesda changing anything in the Climates.

If you're afraid that you yourself mess something up when adding Weathers to Climates, simply make a backup of the ESP before you start that part. There is nothing risky about having changes to the Climates in the same plugin as the Weathers.

Thanks for the reply!

My mod will act as a resource not for other mods, but for patches on my own. For instance, I'll have optional patch files for darker nights and such. That was the reason jjc71 also made his weather mod .esm when I asked him, so that really got me thinking into doing it myself.

And I thought since 99,99% of my work on the mod will go on to make these weather "resources", I thought it would be best to have them seperated from the 00,001 % of the other time of my work that goes into actually changing the game. And yes, I will of course make backups as well, but it would feel even more safe to have them seperated
I just want to make sure I make a good decision from the start after soon to spend so much time in something.

Ah I see, if you have multiple optional features it indeed becomes easier to use one ESM as a base and then ESP's for the optionals.

I might as well ask now: Could the MERP team perhaps get permission from you to integrate your Weathers into MERP? Middle Earth has very varied climates, from frozen wastes around Forochel in the North to deserts in Harad to the South. Vanilla Skyrim doesn't have nearly enough weathers to cover our needs, and we don't have a dedicated developer in our team to create tons of custom weathers. Or if you're interested, you could perhaps join the MERP team and work with our build directly?

If you don't know about MERP yet, check the link in my signature.

Sure, once I've done more weathers I'd be happy to give permission to MERP to integrate the cloud textures and weathers (including lighting, if they wish). I'm a fan of MERP and follow it, but I sadly won't join the team because it would be too much for me to do. It already is to be honest; a huge weather mod is big enough for me

Right now, today, I'm going to start integrating weathers and making new cloud textures. I know everything I need now, partly because of this thread xD.
After I've created one new weather fully (perhaps in 2 days?), I'll start a WIP thread here on the mod forum, and then you'll be able to follow my development and see screenshots, etc. To follow that thread will be the best way for the MERP team to look at what I'm doing.