http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=daxxVviKvgo

This guy pretty much answers the question, Honestly it disappointed me when Josh from shoddy cast was calling ESO pay 2 win I'm glad this guy put him on blast for it.

I dont think its pay to win but a paygate no matter how you dress it up as.

Nop.

Actually all of the Races have good sides, depending how you will play and with whom.

It is not a paygate, its just exclusive CE edition stuff. Included in CE Edition and not even advertised prior as being ingame.

Mainly, a very good deal for us CE edition buyers, and 1st time EVER in my 20+ year gaming experience, a good CE deal (other MMOs offered crap in their CE editions).

Not pay 2 win (again).

But its a pay wall since its locked content for extra money, AT LAUNCH, key words here "AT LAUNCH" having locked content for extra cash is just plain greedy, that is all there is to be said, if it was in an expansion later on, no one would bat an eye, locking a whole race before the game launches is the purest of greed, playing on the human need to feel above the rest, and the problem is that people fell for it. Not all bought it for the race, but surely none complained about it either.

Also this opens questions as to what is the limit for this type of actions which is far more serious than the launch content issue, if they did this now, what won't they do later on? Where is the line? IS there a line they won't cross?

This. The question is What's next? Just look at EA, from DLC to season pass, and then microtransaction and lastly, the 'pay to play' model of Dungeon Keeper.

In my opinion you are some good points, but from other hand it was Collectors Edition that just required some content to be exclusive, if not then they would be laughed for selling nothing. And collectors edition are usually AT LAUNCH.

Locked content is usually considered a quests / zones, but not how helmet / gear / face might look like, it is more called exclusive look.

And regarding crossing the line - it is not about life and death, it is just a game where people might pay or not, might also choose other games if other are better or the one does not find expectations. It is just a market - people decide how to spent their money.

there must be a whole table of horses for these forums. this topic alone has used three

There is a need to separate Devs and Marketing guys. Devs might have honest best intentions, but there is no line marketing guys wouldnt cross for extra money

Here we go again. Poor dead horse. We're just going to keep flogging you, over and over again.

Simple answer "NO" I don't even agree with the paygate thing, it is an option for you to buy, you do not have to have it, to play the game and you will not be gimped if you do not have it , they are not selling you the sword of a thousand truth's to behead toons in one hit.

Thats why I always bash their marketing team and commend the devs, its a great game and as I already stated the SUB is the only leash they have on their marketing team, god i'll pray for the game soul's if this goes f2p because it will be a disaster train wreck in a tornado on jupiter.

And sorry but saying they need exclusive content as an excuse to lock a whole race just doesn't cut it, you already have a FREE horse, WITH A UNIQUE skin, the rings of mara allow for faster leveling (it stacks), cmon how much more exclusive do you want?

A whole race is locked from PAYING customers unless they PAY MORE, at a game launch, it's not right, thats what I'm saying.

Please also don't bring "it's a company, make money" yada bla bla comments, I already know it, everyone already knows it, but that isn't an excuse to their marketing team. I want to see if they put a 50% amulet exp for sale as "exclusive" content for the new edition before launch and play as a daedra too for 200€, lets see if you say they're just making money then....

EDIT: Also people love to mix disagreements with the CE with p2w for the sake of bashing others, I like how some managed to filter and disagree with me logically instead of bashing, but apparently those type of people are a rare breed, and bashing is far easier since the p2w cry babies are heard louder.

Its only a paywall if you intend on playing an imperial. Which not everyone does(including yours truly). So saying "TESO has a paywall" in a general sense is not correct. A paywall in a general sense is what everyone has to go throught ot be able to play at all. And that's not the case here.

I think it's not true, you are not locked out of any real content in the game, you still have access to 100 of areas, stories, dungeons, you will even learn imperial style. It's like sat nav for a car, it does not brake the car, it's still 100% roadworthy car, you just have to pay extra if you would like sat nav built in. It has nothing to do with microtransations by EA. It's been priced before the launch, they can put whatever they want on a price tag. You don't like it don't spend money on it.

I just bought second GTX 670 I did not whinge on nvidia forums that "I had to pay extra for it, it locks me out from constant 144 fps." I wanted it so I decided that the price they are asking for it is right and I have spent money on it. Year ago I thought that buying second one was too much...

Ooh!! I heard we were having a dead horse revival?!

Its impossible to compare the 2, you pay for a NEW product, this game hasn't even launched and you are sold a 99% of the game not 100% since the race is locked, you dont think it's content, thats the issue, I do, to me it's locked content, I consider a race content, so its impossible to get you to see my PoV as much as I can't understand yours of comparing a new product replacing a old one with paying for a incomplete one.

It's not P2W, every well-thinking person can think of that. It is, however, a paywall or day 1 DLC. Which is vieuwed by many as a pretty [censored] move.

Thank you, some people actually seem to think further than just "its just a bonus" and "its p2w".

Guys and Gals just watch the video first then comment

I treat the game as costing $ 80. Everybody pays $ 80 for the basic game and they get everything.

If you want, ZOS kindly offers to give you $ 20. They just hand it right to you. You don't get the Imperial stuff, but if you don't want it anyway, you can take the $ 20 they are giving you and profit from it.

There. No pay gate. No issue.

He contradicts himself if you spend some time processing what he says. Has some fair points but his video is all about bashing more than having his own opinion, same as p2w guys.

I'm still trying to figure out how you "win" an mmo.

Racials and race is not p2w.
But the imperial horse itself is.
Overall , it doesnt provide big differance but it still effects and that slight effect is annoying

I don't consider it as p2w when you can get the same thing from within the game (via normal mean and in reasonable time, we are not talking about months of farming or pay to get it now)

Well, its not win as a finishing, but being better than everyone else for real life currency, and in the video he explains that and its one of the few points I agree on how to explain p2w system.

Seld-deluding gamers are pretty much a marketeers wet dream.