After many of the recent changes to ESO on the PTS I'm having a hard time see what differentes ESO from single player games on the market. Please help me identify elements that will make me want to group up.

Single player elements

Questing phasing making it impossible to group up with someone

All Quest are balanced for solo players

Most open world is for solo

Public dungeons offer nothing. same loot worse exp than solo content

4- Man dungeons same loot as solo content, more repairs, more cost, more risk less exp

No raid content

Multiplayer Elements

Cyrodil PVP

you can easily play with your friends by selecting them in the friend tab and clicking "go to player" as for things being to easy.. they aren't, they made monsters uber difficult now so its definately not solo friendly in that respect anymore unless you have a ton of stuns

Hmm.

Players running helter skelter across my screen bunny hopping? Check.

WTS/WTT spam flooding zone chat? Check.

Forum idiots petitioning for PvP/PvE only shards? Check.

Korean gold farmers botting resource sites? Check (yes, found one in beta, probably working on his macros early).

Epic changelog whines? Check.

Every player name already taken? Check.

Static content surrounded by a half dozen players waiting for spawn? Check.

Yeah, seems like an MMO to me.

They did make 4-man dungeons alot harder but they other no reward over solo play loot. They make public dungeons more difficult but decreased the exp and loot is the same as solo. I guess what I mean to say is that the game has multiplayer compenents but offers no increased reward for tougher content. Maybe the games risk vs reward is off.

It is what you want to make of it. Run solo if you wish. Run dungeons with friends until raids are out. Run with a zerg if you want to be alone but around many. Or play a different game.

It's massive. I can play multiplayer if I wish. It's online. And it's an RPG.

Checks out.

lol

It's like you want a reward for grouping up. Or more accurately, you want to punish people who play solo.

So your not really arguing that the game isn't an MMO ... your arguing that the carrot isn't good enough to 'force and/or encourage' you to group with other players?

As I am pro crafter, the 'raid for best gear' mentality is one I'm on the offensive against. It's an MMO staple that has seen it's sun and needs to die out. There are other ways to reward players for group content than simply gear alone.

I guess I agree with it. Maybe be Im to use to the status quo in mmo's. That being group content = higher risk = higher reward. As of now it seems like group content= higher risk = rewards = lower risk= solo play

Made me chuckle. Well done!

1. Being fixed for launch
2. Most quests outside dungeons, yes, like most MMO's.
3. Not true, exp is the same. It's just no longer better.
4. Not true, or else I'm insanely lucky, because I got 5 blues from 1 and a half dungeons and only one blue in all the rest of my three beta weekends. As for repairs, play better.
5. Being added as you would know if you paid any attention.

In short, it's an MMO, end of thread.

Yes, I think thats what I was trying to get at.

TESO, for better or worse, is not WOW. Most MMORPGs are to be like WOW because it is so successful. This game does not have to be like that. TES is a series where exploration of the world is paramount. Quests are just an excuse to explore the world, discover the stories, and deal with what is out there. We just get to do it with a bunch of other people now, and we have the choice to interact and group with them or play along side of them, or ignore them. I think it is a refreshing approach.

Gear from dungeons should really be only as good as the gear check to pass the next dungeon without being woefully underpowered, as long as it does that there should be no complaints. I actually think it's a good idea to keep solo and dungeon gear on par while leveling to cap, as long as in both cases they can stay geared enough to drop into dungeons without difficulty. They just need to make xp gains balanced between the two (and PvP) and it'll be a perfectly fine leveling experience.

That sounds exactly like an MMO. kekeke

I ran about 20 dungeons worth of the 6 dungeons in beta. Loot was better if you looted all the chest in the dungeons but with that being said its the same loot you can get solo open world but hoping around to all the chest in the open world. Just go to esohead and look at the chest locations.

Well, let's have a discussion then. I'll lead with a few questions:

- Isn't your definition of 'harder' content a personal one? Requiring more coordination, maybe, but many gamers like myself see absolutely no challenge in fighting an AI mob after the third or fourth attempt, due to the repetitious and outright predictable behavior of ALL NPC's. In following this logic of 'more risk = more reward', than only PvP would offer the best rewards in the game, because of the basic unpredictable level that players bring to the gaming equation.

- Is four players grouping up and working together really harder than a solo player managing everything himself? The simple fact that a solo player has to do ALL of the requisite components of the holy trinity (tank/damage/heal) means that simply the challenge of completing content would be more cumbersome and difficult. In the end, appropriately scaled, would not solo content reward a player more for doing what it takes four players to do otherwise? Appropriately scaled, that is.

- When you refer to rewarding team play, do you not understand that this punishes solo play? I'm actually all for group content requiring groups to complete. But in the same breath, signaling one playstyle (solo vs group, pvp vs pve, loot vs crafter) as superior to another and deserving of more reward essentially punishes the other groups preferred playstyle.

All in all, I'm more or less playing devil's advocate. I think the solo and group rewards SHOULD be equal. I also feel it's a subtle balance on challenge and skill that i doubt ESO has achieved yet. But they SHOULD be balanced, in my mind.

maybe your right but doesn't this lead to a bland game? Why can't you reward both solo and group play? Offer certain stuff you cannot get in group that you can only get in solo and certain stuff you can only get in group that you cannot get solo

But, those chests are random and there's a lot of competition in some areas. The dungeons on the other hand are consistent & easy to locate.

Its all about phasing..... = ) play around with it

So what certain stuff can you offer, without making them required?

Maybe, complete the dungeon in a group, get a group buff? Sure. Complete it solo, get a solo buff. Fair.

Complete the dungeon in a group, get unique armor with stats that you can't get elsewhere? Not so kosher. Because those same stats may be the best for solo play as well. Now we're requiring players to run group content, even if they are sociophobes (made up word, but it gets my message across), in order to have best-in-slot gear.

I see your point but isn't the reason we play mmo's for interaction with other people ie grouping? And as it stands nothing is no drop. So no one would be forced to do anything they don't like. lets make some tough solo events and some tough group events that reward us for risk.

So... why isn't that reward enough? Why does the game have to punish people who for whatever reason, don't feel like or can't group at all times?

Some of us. That is part of the allure of an MMO. A good MMO appeals to many different types of players.

See, some MMO's only appeal to PvPers who group up. But some PvPers like to duel or fight in small arenas instead of big zergs. A well-rounded MMO finds a way to appeal to all of those playstyles (zergs, duelers, arena types).

The same goes for NPC content. A well rounded MMO will find a way to appeal to solo players, small-group players (dungeons), large-group players (raids), and super-socialites (with guild functions and whatnot). In the end, the MMO can benefit greatly if it's fair to all playstyles, instead of being partial to only one.

A game that is partial to PvPers, for instance, will inevitably betray it's PvE playerbase.

This is actually one of the secrets to the success of WoW. It had a plethora of content for almost all gamestyles.