Need another reason not to blow 200+$$$ on your first year of ESO? I got you covered.

I recently dove into a game called NeverWinter, which i well knew was going to have a strong pay2win model from the get go. In fact, when i say "Strong", i mean that they refined the system so much, since the only way they make money is through their trade-able in-game currency known as zen, that its actually a relatively stable and semi-intangible economy. A quick look at the history of Neverwinter will reveal it had its dark age, where exploits got people zen-rich.. But those exploits have been fixed, and their system is a perhaps the strongest i have ever seen, or even imagined for that matter. More details on that in a bit.

So im sure some of you have been going through your own value anolysis, partially thanks to a powerful marketing and PR team, as well as what you would consider "MMO morals". Perhaps you think since the game charges you 60-100 in cheese up front, you get a fair, non pay2win play environment, perhaps you are hypnotized by the fact the game has story elements that im sure B&Z have paid hundreds of thousands to ensure you they exist in ESO, and that voice acting is some sort of new stride for MMO's.

Take a breather, that drill going into your brain is simply me trying to tell you that as an avid gamer, i can assure you that ESO will be even more pay2win than you can even begin to imagine. ESO uses one form of currency, gold, which is used to buy whatever your heart desires and is fueled by an extravagant number of venues within the game. Believe it or not, there are thousands (yes thousands) of people that make a living farming gold, creating bot programs, and multiboxing> (which is highly do-able since there is ZERO collision). Gold selling sights are really advanced too, with their own call centers, live chat sessions, and competitive and real time pricing. Say that sword you want cost 100 gold on the auction house. That would take you roughly 10 dungeon runs, or 12 hours of gameplay to amass that much gold -or- you can pay a gold seller 5 bucks and get it instantly.

So how does Neverwinter mitigate this problem? It's simple, yet complex.... Gold in Neverwinter is only used to buy consumables and low level mounts, but has a Perceived value in the community, so if you amass 100 gold, you can find someone who might trade the gold for a decent item they have. The gold cant be used on the auction house, nor can it be used to buy mats. At best gold can be used to buy mediocre equipment from in-game vendors, potions, and low level mounts. The next level of currency is called AD (astral diamonds) which can only be obtained from daily's, events, praying, or using the crafting system which you can use to mine AD automatically over a period of time while you play, or while you're offline. AD cannot be used in P2P trading, but its used on the AH, can be used to buy essential mats, rare mounts, and other various things of relevance. AD can also be traded for the ultimate currency, ZEN. Which is the currency that can be purchased from the in-game shop with cash. On a side note, the best gear in neverwinter cannot be obtained through either gold, AD, nor ZEN, and can only be gained by winning account bound currency gained from doing high level dungeons and pvp

So essentially both games are pay2win, while one is F2P and the other is B2P with a subscription and limited cash shop. Claiming that ESO is not a pay2win game would be a highly shallow, and uneducated statement, thus another reason to save your money and skip this money hungry game.

ESO uses two currencies. Gold and Alliance Points. Alliance points cannot be traded between players. ESO also has bind of equip and bind on pickup. Both limit what can be sold.

Further, 3rd party RMT that is against the EULA and TOS is never considered when something is possibly pay to win. By that logic nearly all games are pay 2 win.

Stop trying to make claims of the game being p2w. If you have to resort to something that violates the EULA and TOS to find it p2win, then the game is obviously not pay to win.

That logic would be correct, and to try to avert that type of logic or disagree with it would be extremely ignorant. Very few people give a rats anus about the EULA and TOS when they do something that has never, to my knowledge, been volatile in that the people conducting in the buying and selling of farmed gold will always win the fight against the mods

Wow... You must be even more bored than I am. Seein' how you just typed the largest compilation of worthlessness I've ever seen. So, your logic is, if there is gear in a game that you can purchase, it's buy2win? Brilliant: Said no one ever.

It's not really pay to win if buying from a gold seller means your account is hacked and stolen.

I think its rather easy to detect who has already pre-ordered the deluxe edition in these forums.

1. People who dont do any research whatsoever outside of looking at trailers and announce videos

2. People who cant read anything longer than 3 sentences on a forum "specifically" used for reading

On a softer note, do either of you have anything useful to add to the discussion?

So .. after skimming, I came away with the thesis that ESO is p2w because of gold sellers? Correct?

For me Pay 2 Win isn't about buying gold .. your comparison is Neverwinter? You pay REAL cash to buy ingame currency like 100k diamonds to buy higher level stuff. That's pay 2 win. Which isn't illegal. Farming gold ruins in game economy, illegal, and makes you lamest gamer ever. No one gives 2 shEEts about a "sugar daddy twink" player

You completely missed Nothv13's point regarding the EULA. It has nothing to do with adherence to the EULA, we all know that nobody gives a rats ass about those. The point is that if you have to use violations of the EULA to reach the conclusion that a game is P2W, then you actually confirm that it is not, because EVERY game that has an in game currency that can be traded meets that criteria. What you're ultimately saying is that gold sellers svck. Ok, next newsflash?

Stopped reading at "Neverwinter".
Class-specific armour as limited armour, lol.

One might assume by this statement alone that you are on a quest to dissuade people from buying this game. This debate is old and tired. Looks to me like you are grasping at straws. Trying desperately to convince people to hate and despise this game as much as you do.

Neverwinter is one of the most blatant examples of P2W you can find. Where money grubbing tactics abound like locked boxes and Instant ressurection scrolls that you can buy with cash. To compare that game to ESO is simply outlandish in my opinion.

If you consider paying a subscription in order to gain access to everything the game has to offer as P2W, then so be it. If that is the case, please explain what MMO isn't P2W. Gold sellers are not part of the game DESIGN.

I don't even have the desire to debate it anymore with people that are just using it to facilitate an agenda.

No.. ESO isn't pay2win regardless of what flawed logic you make up. Pay 2 Win means with in game store you buy gear and items. ESO doesn't have that, hence not Pay 2 win.

1. I haven't ordered anything.

2. If you believe that your argument is actually valid, I feel so sorry for you.

3. Even if someone pays a gold farmer for in game gold, and then they buy something, gives them zero advantage over someone in game that earned the in-game gold and bought the same item.

And, adding something useful would indicate that there were some sort of valid base to be added to. Which there isn't.

lol

Ok, goodbye and I have fun with another game.

OP please include chapters in your long story please. (BTW BRO ITS NOT P2W)

Sweet! An attack on my intelligence since I chose to spend MY money for something I want. Tell me more as I lean forward eagerly with my face resting in my hands.

I hope the sarcasm generates nicely since I am not interested in anything you have to say anymore.

Holy crap...

Really... Almost every single multiplayer game can be classified as P2W (based off of this guy's logic)... wow... just.... wow......

I'm sorry man, but your argument was pitiful.

Sub = P2W ?

SUB + Expansion - Cash shop = P2W^3?

P2W = Every multiplayer game?

I don't know how you set up your equations, but you set them up wrong. Make sure you put your calculator in standard mode before doing these types of equations.

This is great tho, I've literally never been in a thread where EVERY SINGLE PERSON other than the OP agrees that the OP is idiotic in his "theory".

Congrats man, you've successfully posted the least successful post in the history of every forum every created.

LoL, yeah that's how I felt. I was like, "Damn, he used Neverwinter as reference? I did that once .. and didn't visit forum for days "

I hope you enjoy Neverwinter as much as I am going to enjoy ESO. Farewell.

Your whole premise, with respect to ESO, is faulty. Sure you might be able to buy gold and outfit a toon with the best gear possible by doing so. But that doesn't equate to "pay-to-win". In a game like ESO that is pay to gear up as fast as possible. A player could just as easily put in the time it takes to gain the same gear. It may be the longer time sink, but in the end the player who puts in the time will have far more skill and understanding of the game which, in my book, gives them a leg up on anyone "buying" their way through it. And said player will have given themselves the opportunity to actually create some personal satisfaction at having done so.

I'll give you this much. You spent an awful long time and wasted effort to try to convince us of a barely plausible comparison between the two payment types. In the end you're argument is simply full of holes and wouldn't hold the the ale necessary to make us drunk enough to believe a word of it.

I'm thinking you're just another bored ESO fiend looking for something to keep you busy until release or the next beta event.

Least successful?

He got all of us posting in the thread, that's all he wanted, and he succeeded.

This thread should be locked before it becomes insults.

But seriously OP, how the heck do you think that something that breaks the game rules, has nothing whatsoever to do with earning money for the devs, AND you don't end up with any advantage over the guy who didn't fork over cash, makes this P2W? I call troll.

Just leave. This game is obviously not for you.

As Dr. Seuss would say "My IQ dropped by three sizes this day,"

You have to admit, troll threads are fun.