I wouldn't say all synths deserve blame for the actions of a subset of them, but this definitely calls into question the idea of synth 'freedom' being some universally positive value, worthy of ruining human and non-rebellious synth lives over.

When that populace is made to be infiltrators, killers, weapons and tools. I'm not putting the collective blame on the Synths but it's hard to not ignore many only think they're sentient because of a programming glitch. Not to mention many of the escaped synths are re-programmed to forget all their past memories. If we want to treat them like people then they deserve to be judged for their actions before and after getting their memory wiped. Just because you get amnesia doesn't mean you're instantly justified of your sins.

Many Gen-3 synths were built to be spies and to kill people and then replace them. I've had random events where it was the synth replicate actually killing the person they're made to replace, if you want to treat them like people then actually treat them like one and hold them accountable for what they did.

This is why I believe in solving the problem at its source by reforming the Institute.

All well and good, except that the Brotherhood is a bunch of outsiders that can be reasonably expected to look at the matter with a more objective eye, something they utterly fail to do.

I'm wondering if the Synth infiltrator at your Settlements is actually a Railroad Synth hiding amongst your population and the Institute Synth teleporting in are after that Synth.

The way I see it Synths may have free-will, that's entirely a possibility or they may be like the Synthetic Intelligence from Old World Blues where they have realistic personalities but they don't actually have free-will or thinking passed their programming, it can also be a side-effect from the fact some synths entire identity is based off of brain scans of people, take Nick for instance. Nick's entire life and personality come from a brain scan of a pre-war detective, that's all Nick is even though he has done his own accomplishments everything he is is from a pre-war detective.

Personally I'd like the Brotherhood to be more synth tolerant, I like Danse, I like Nick, I like the idea of sentient A.I. (Hell, if it ever happened in real life I'd support it, I already support the movement to already set up pro-synthetic and artificial intelligence civil rights in governments.) but there is a lot we don't know about the Synths and that includes the idea that their free-will is just something they inherited from their human counterpart and nothing but, well, a personality quirk and not actually free-will.

I think the Institute is a 9-10 on the Authoritarian scale. Father is nearly worshiped as a god similar to what you might see in North Korea today. While he listens to others he is quick to say no and "I will say no more" with between the line threats. His rule is absolute. Elder Maxson, while perhaps legendary, doesn't seem to be perceived in a godlike aura. Further BOS would have a very natural expectation of eventual "succession", a prospect far more disruptive and unthinkable to the Institute people.

I think missing ratings could be: Insularism and Arrogance which both BOS and the Institute would score highly on and are driving factors for their behavior. The institute, perhaps due to their long term separation underground, seem to have little empathy for the surface folk despite claiming they are there to "help mankind". They've been insulated for so long, despite being highly intelligent, they've justified slavery to themselves. They are arrogant in that they believe their way is the only way forward. The BOS, since they are on the surface and can see the fight put to the commonwealth folk, can empathize and at least helps out with battling the super mutes, ghouls, and raiders. But they do have an insulated culture and are supremely arrogant that only they alone can be trusted to own and control science and tech.

The parallels between this game and various fantasy titles is interesting. The BOS are the "templars" , warriors trained to control mages. But the warriors also ironically hoard and use the various magical "technologies" in support of their mission. The institute are like the mages with their science "magic" such as teleportation and their extreme force multiplication through synths. They don't even need to fight themselves, unlike the BOS where everyone is expected to be battle ready.

That is a interesting thought, perhaps they are in effect gaining the appearance (or actual) Sapience through the brain scans......which would also explain the one (at least) who became a Raider and the loco events since creating a whole new 'psyche' given they are using an entertainment device to reprogram them, might be a little hit and miss.

Courser seem to be missing something and seem closer to earlier generations in personality so perhaps they are given less of a personality while the others are given more depending on their planned function.

Sorry, I can't give you a screen shot, since I didn't bother. As I stated I am not even sure why this speech was trigger this last time and not in my previous playthroughs. What I will do for you though is after BGS ships its modding kit I will point you to the Desdemona's .txt file that will find its place on the Fallout wiki. Until then, you will have to continue to believe that i am making [censored] up on the fly, and I can think of you as an unmitigated [censored].

First off, I am not really a Railroad fan. The Faction only has one purpose for existence. They believe it is their responsibility to free what they view as sentient creatures from bondage. They have no other goal. Anything else they do is only in support of that goal. The Institute considers them a criminal organization. The Brotherhood considers them an enemy. The Minutemen officially don't have a stance on them but the Commonwealth at large doesn't like synths or anyone that would help synths. They have no friends, just enemies. Even if they somehow accomplish their goal, and finally run out of synths to help, they will still have to remain hidden. They really have no future because winning will destroy them just as surely as losing. Their doesn't appear to be any large scale slaver operations going on in the Commonwealth (other than the Institute and their synths), so switching to a similar goal is out of the question. The only hope for them to survive as they are is to maintain the status quo.

The synths are screwed seven ways from Sunday. Their only friends are the Railroad. If the Institute wins, they are doomed to perpetual servitude. If either the Railroad or the Minutemen wins, they are doomed to a slow extinction. If the BoS wins, they are doomed to a relatively rapid extinction.

I am a Minuteman fan, but at the current state of the game it has a significant problem. There are three leaders in the Minutemen currently. The General, Preston and Shaw. Preston and Shaw are small unit leaders, they do not have the training or temperament to lead the entire organization. Take out the General and the same thing will happen as the last time the General got aced. The Sole Survivor had better get off his/her dead ass and start building a chain of command and start training his/her own replacement. Otherwise, the next deathclaw that wanders by just might destroy the Minutemen, AGAIN!

The Brotherhood is at least consistent in their ideology. Meanwhile, the Railroad is believed by many to be ethically correct in their aims, when this is not at all the case.

Even if we assume all Gen-3's indeed possess free will, that does nothing to justify the actions of the Railroad or make them particularly ethical. Whether it's sentience or a malfunction that diversifies them, it's obvious that synths are not a homogenous group. X6-88 is clearly capable of forming opinions and has a fair amount of self-awareness, to the point that he doubts and even goes as far as to outright refuse to work with you (the future Director appointed by Father himself!) if he disagrees with your methods and decisions. Yet, he has absolutely no desire to attain 'freedom', and we can assume that neither do other Coursers, as well as many ordinary Institute synths. Still, the Railroad is perfectly willing to dismiss the wants and preferences of those synths by destroying their safe and comfortable home and indeed their entire lives. They also show absolutely no hesitation or remorse when killing Coursers, although by their definition they are no less 'slaves' than the infiltrator or simple maintenance synths - 'forced' by the Institute to perform certain functions or risk a mind-wipe or decommissioning.

The Railroad is bunch of holier-than-thou hypocrites.

I think the Railroad's position on Coursers can be summed up by this quote from Django Unchained:

Why would gen 3 synths not have a brain with more or less the same structure as a human one, anyway? It's all but said in Curie's personal quest that a synth brain is mostly human except for a few components that make it easier for a robot mind to be uploaded into it.

I don't see why there would be a difference that somehow makes the answer about whether they're people or not different.

It's those few components that make the fundamental difference. As far as I know, human brains don't have any components meant to make it easier to upload a robot mind into it. You can't swap the personality of a human. You can't upload a different personality into a blank human body like we do with Curie into a synth body. That simply is not how biology works. You can't speak a key phrase to deactivate a human body, like you can with a synth.

Isn't it mentioned that the Memory Den can, in fact, do similar things to humans? Not identical, necessarily, but there isn't a wide gap. You could erase a human's memories and give them someone else's. And I believe post-hypnotic suggestions are quite similar to synth deactivation codes.

I believe there was some mention of things occasionally going wrong there and screwing up some memories, but I honestly don't really remember.

Post-hypnotic suggestions aren't a hard-wired thing. They don't work on all people. Some people are basically just immune to being hypnotized. A synth deactivation code is a hard-wired thing. It is built into their programming right from the very start.

If you were building a human, couldn't you decide on their susceptibility to hypnosis?

You can't build a human.

Damn, double post . . .

Well said. Synths are not humans, no matter how much sentience they have.

Sure they may deserve to be treated humanely, but they do not "deserve" to be treated as full-fledged humans any more than your dog or your mobile device.

We have been doing it ever since the species came into existence. The method is a bit messier and prone to error, but it is also a hell of a lot more fun.

Sure you can. You just need a couple of component parts, and then stick them together. True, means of actually altering the human during development are as of yet crude, but I'm sure they'll advance.

They're good at conceptualizing stories... not so much at telling them. The ideas behind each faction, I think, inspire more passion than the factions themselves.

They may not be human per se, but should be treated equally.

I'm not really sure how this is a relevant question.

The key words that synths have programmed in is not a product of hypnosis. It is a product of adding a line of code to their program that makes them shut down when this phrase is spoken.

Except neither Coursers nor ordinary loyal synths choose to do what they do in order to better their own lives, they do it because it's their default state. They were made that way, and they have not experienced the malfunction that is the development of something resembling a desire for freedom in the renegade synths. You can't blame a creature for not supporting an idea of which it has no concept.

And if it's 'regrettable collateral damage' then that makes the Railroad no better than the BoS or the Institute as far as morality goes, except their actions only benefit a subset of an already far smaller group.

I will say that I err on the side of siding with the Institute, because I believe it has the least collateral damage and fewest civilian deaths.