seems to me that its just about the money theres no love put into the game, just like footballers are just for the money, like musicians are for the money there no love or passion anymore

Using superior logic, your a casual player since you own a console..... :thumbsup: Joking aside, I agree. Though Bethesda said they would make patches to balance the game.

Well this is the reason why I propose we get mods on consoles as well. I'm a PC gamer, never owned a console since my 360 broke 4 years ago. I still say bring mods onto consoles. Why? Console deserves fixes and it still makes both PC and console versions of the game balanced. PC makes the mods (Creation Kit isn't coming onto consoles until the new Elder Scrolls...that's a given fact. It's too hard to program to fit console programming) and console can stop complaining on these forums.

But until then, play. Bethesda is known for bugs and problems. Until they fix it or mods come onto consoles, just complain and play. There's nothing you can do about it so just play the game and hope mods come on consoles or Bethesda starts fixing things. Besides, half the complaints in this forum is just http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw4vHMXqEt4 and the other half are actually legitimate.

I copied comments I liked on this issue:

Mitheledh
I die a little inside each time, too. Not because I'm on a console. I'm playing on a PC. No, I die inside a little each time because I don't believe it's the mod community's job to fix Bethesda's game for them.

blutendesherz
It seems to me the way it is now on PC games;
Official Patch = Do just enough to please a reviewer and get a GOTY award and/or not get sued by userbase.
Community Patch = Actually fix want the gamers want.

So waiting for a mod to fix things is just becoming the norm. Plus you got to think an official patch can't re-balance much of anything without moaning from everyone, a mod can.

vbportugal
TES was originally a PC game and I believe that the heart of the TES fan base is still in the PC community hence why many people talk about modding the TES games to make them better.

Zwenkwiel
I get what the OP is saying
nothing wrong with making a product with added functionality on the PC since it has more capabilities (console commands/mod support etc.)
but that doesn't mean you can use mods as an excuse for faults in a game that doesn't even support it (I.E every console copy of skyrim)

Stonedsoul, on 11 December 2011 - 08:43 AM, said:
This game, much to the irk of the PC community actually (as this is one of their main complaints), is before all a console game. Out of the 5 million buyers, last I looked, 4 millions played on either Xbox 360 or PS3.

Nichtswisser
Those numbers are false btw since Steam sales aren't included in PC sales.

(I say:- look at the forum votes for what platform they bought the game for and look at the numbers).

Mogrus
Blizzard was still issuing patches for Diablo II years after its release, and they continued tweaking balance in the game long after all the bugs had been squashed. Blizzard also continued issuing tweaks to Warcraft III long after the expansion.

That said, I'm actually not upset with Bethesda, since I pretty much bought exactly what I expected, bugs and all. For me, the CK is THE major feature of TES, not the vanilla game. I'm buying an adventure creation kit that happens to have a bunch of pre-built content, not just a game with an optional toolset for tweaking things.

(I say:- Blizzard are a great company, still have support and dedicated servers up for NWN1 !! But i dissagree with your second comment, unless you are the one doing the creating, but it should not be an excuse to release a buggy unfinished game).

wicked-james
seems to me that its just about the money theres no love put into the game, just like footballers are just for the money, like musicians are for the money there no love or passion anymore





Realy, it realy irks me that games get released now days with all the bells and wistles, but half baked, or carbon copies of a tried and proven simple formula, with a movie of cut-scenes. I realy do not think its the mods job to fix things and neither should it be Dlc. I don't get many mods myself, NWN I modded but mostly so i could play MP on someones game they created on the toolkit, Demigod I modded with one patch to improve the AI and UI, thats it, I think if you have to rely on mods to make a good game then the game was [censored] to begin with and the company who made it should pay the modders for keeping their fan base happy.
That said the people who mod games are amazing in their knowledge and dedication to the community and the game they enjoy.

I played Skyrim on PS3. Apparently that makes me a moron. a svcker. Maybe i'm just too trusting. I expect Bethesda to deliver a quality game for the price.

Official Yawn.™

Luckily, for bethesda... They make a game that is fixable by mods.

I can recall several games that do not have the ability for users to fix. You are just stuck with what you get.

Though X-Box and PS3 do not "condone", user-edited data... They can not stop it. Mods ARE able to work on all systems. They will just not be provided by an x-box service... or PS3 service. Complain to the console regulators... You are the customer of the consoles... You make the paychecks the console creators cash-in... Defend your console, stop complaining about it, to those who are not in control of your complaints and could care less about your defence.

I think the solution is simple and MUST BE PUSHED AS HARD AS POSSIBLE. we know they will not do their job but there is something be we can force them to do.

ADD A MOD DOWNLOADED TO SKYRIM. Add an app that links to an official mod site that allows you to download the mod you want. This will allow all of us xbox/ps3 users to enjoy the game a bit more. we all know gamesas has no intention of fixing things but an xbox/ps3 app that downloads form a mod sight would be great. and if the can do DLC they can do this.

App: type in mod: search bar
Mod shows up with brief description, and rating
Options, download mod, favorite mod, decline mod, search for new mod.

for those who want a more in depth detail on the mod just turn on your computer and be sure to read more about it, then go back to your xbox/ps3 and download it.

This would be great in my opinion.

THIS!

In my humble opinion, some games are suited for console, some games are suited for PC, and some games are simple enough that it doesn't matter.

For instance, you will never see Civilization 5 on a console. It's too complex. Not Total War, not Age of Empires, nothing like that.
Likewise, MarioKart for the PC would be a travesty. No! Even a game like Assassin's Creed doesn't seem like it would translate to PC very well, but perhaps that's because I first fell in love with it on the PS3.

What's my point? My point is that games that try and release on 3 different platforms necessarily have to cut corners and round off the edges of their gameplay. They have to create a game that averages the capabilities and the control schemes of all the different platforms. I think TES should stick to PCs, honestly. It's way too big, too ambitious, and too complex to stick with consoles. I think if they really want a console TES game, then they need to spin off a console series and call it something else. Maybe revive the "Elder Scrolls Adventures" and go with that.

The single truth is that consoles and PCs will never have the same capability, ever. One or the other will always be superior. Beyond that, they don't play the same. The control schemes are just complete opposites.

You are obviously not familiar with Bethesda's track record for fixing bugs.

its BETHESDA...fact is, if you didnt buy pc...your buying a permanently unfinished/barren project. its never going to be all the way fixed, and will have FAR less replayability without mods.

this is why wen a games on pc...i ALWAYS get it on pc. its just plain better every time.

But we should not have to rely on mods to have a full up and running game, that should be gamesas's job. Sorry but saying. "Play on PC so other players can help fix it because the company wont" is not a legitimate reason to why this game should be bought for computers and why xbox/ps3 players should have to suffer. you and others are backing the fact that your going to buy a broken game from a company who wont fix it simple because players are willing to spend their time to fix the problems instead of the company we Paid.

Really, so i can sell broken cars at full price because mechanics will fix them?
I can sell broken computers and phones because techs will fix them for my buyers?
How does this make any scene at all?

Yeah, just bad that somehow they forgot to test them for new bugs or make them actually solve existing problems the patch before hasn't just introduced.....

As a console player, I agree with these two statements.

I hate platform flame wars. I respect most PC gamers for their choice of platform, because of the time and expense it can require. But I'm very envious of their ability to access and use mods. Hell, I'm jealous that I can't take snapshots in game, or else I'd have a montage with a soundtrack of my adventures every week on YouTube.

I watched the interview where Todd Howard addressed Mods for consoles, and it's sad but true. Yes, there are too many variables for console companies to consider in terms of safe content for the masses, but it is possible. They just want to spend less to make more. As businesses, I can understand that. But at the same time, are MS and Sony really taking a good hard look at their options for console mods? I doubt it.

I personally feel that if a gaming company releases software to which there is a charge to purchase, the company should ensure the software works as closely to "as intended" (and in Skyrim's case, on all platforms) as reasonably possible. The real issue lies two-fold:

- every piece of software is going to have bugs that go unresolved for economical reasons (as I mentioned in my last post)

- some players confuse what is reasonable to patch / balance with what --they-- think is the way to patch / balance the game

Not every bug will be deemed worthwhile to fix and not every issue will be viewed as an issue that needs to be addressed, That is where mods come in. That is the advantage to having a game that allows / is designed for mods. So, while I agree that the game needs to be patched (and that is going to always be the case with large massive games that are marketed to numerous game consoles (especially when created for / ported to the PC due to nearly endless software / hardware configs) lets just be advlts and realistic about what one should expect.

Some people have reasonable expectations that are well justified while others do not understand that Bethesda made TES for a large game base, NOT for them personally (again, that is where mods come in). Secondly, some people understand that many bugs will get fixed just as many will not (a economic line will be drawn somewhere) and there are those who don't get this and will continue to frustrate themselves in their futile expectations.

It doesn't make any sense at all.

But it's a fact that cannot be changed(not like Bethesda going to change their business module anytime soon).

There are two choices when you face something not satisfying. Either 1, make others change; or 2, change yourself.
Now obviously you can't make Bethesda change, so just change yourself. Accept it or play on PC.

I die inside, it seems like a lot of people on pc cheat

Cheers

What? You expect the CEO and VPs to not take 60% of the profits off this game as bonuses? If they did that, they might have to hire some programmers keep bugfixing for the next two years.

"Everytime someone proposes mods as a solution I die a little inside"

Don't worry, soon there will be a mod to fix that.

That PC Sales number would be much higher if it wasn't forced Steamworks. I actually have no problems with mods, kinda intrigued to see what the community can come up with. It certainly helped the bows out in Skyrim, we wouldn't have gotten the DP adjustments to the bows if that wasn't modded.

relax im not siding with beth on this, i think its crap on there part, always has been.

however, all i can think in reply is "hope in one hand...." you get where im going. you can say all about how you shouldnt have to, but fact is...you do. there is no question of legitimacy...its just current fact, as much as it may svck.

the day sony/MS allows free creation, installation and development of 3rd party modifications with absolutly NO quality control...is the day i /salute a goodbye to good ole capitalism and welcome in a era of good feelings and a world where everyone does the nice thing.

as for your last bit...i didnt say it made sense...but judging by its GoTY award...apparently you can!

I tend to be more into mods that add things to the world rather than fixes (aside from the odd quest bug fix or something). If someone makesa cool sword or armor, I like putting those into the game world and using them for a while. There was the giant Elsewyr mod for Oblivion which I really enjoyed playing, it was not canon obviously but fun to run around in a well done desert environment for a while. But ftmp I do agree with mods-as-solution being a bit of a let down.

I don't think anyone really appreciates the number of man-hours that go into things like the Unofficial Fallout Patch. These games that Bethesda produces are immense, and allow a degree of player freedom that's a nightmare to design around. Bugs go hand in hand with that, I don't think it's laziness so much as a decision to put creativity and scope ahead of perfection. It makes them a perfect fit for PC modding communities that are OK with fixing the details so long as they get a huge, intricate world to run around in and reshape for years on end. It'll definitely be interesting to see what impact Skyrim's popularity among console users has on Bethesda's future products. Hopefully Skyrim won't be the last immense world that we see.