This (link below) is what the original Fallout 3 would have been (playable demo). Again, just thought everyone should know.
Personally I like Bethesda's take on it much better.

http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/dload.php?action=file&file_id=892

Are you stupid? That demo was made YEARS ago. Although I like Bethesda's Fallout 3 very much, that was a poor comparison.

It's still how it would have turned out. Bethesda could have completely screwed off all things about Fallout. Pulled out the Brotherhood of Steel, or the PipBoy. But they didn't.

to be fair, you also should link to the design documents of bi's fallout 3. the thought that went into the characters and their background is amazing. and furthermore, this demo is barely a tech demo. a lot of things were simply not implemented when it was released.

eyy thats the van buren tech demo... u cant compare these two tbh...
i think van buren would have been nice in its fulnessnes.
dont get me wrong i love FO3 but its nothing compared to fallout 1 and 2

No actually, I'm not. Putting aside the fact that Fallout 1 and 2 were made YEARS before Van Buren, I think it is more sensible to compare Bethesda's Fallout 3 to Van Buren than to Fallout 1 and 2.

MrTulip: While yes, there was a lot of thought that went into the game, a story (I include character development and all that jazz into the story element of a game) doesn't make a game, on the flip side, neither does game play (at least for RPG's), it requires a nice mix of the two. I personally loved Tactics, but even the Tactics demo (which yes, was a more complete demo, I know) compared to this outshone it quite a bit.

vonsmisk: Why can't I compare them? I think it is personally reasonable to compare the two games. Even if you were to take Bethesda's Fallout 3 and shove it back to the Morrowind engine it would be much better, and that would remove any arguments about differences in game play due to technology.

While I do enjoy Bethesda's Fallout 3, there is no doubt in my mind that Van Buren would of been spectacular.

You're comparing nostalgia to an amazing game. If Fo1/2 came out today, most people that claim it is the best game ever wouldn't even touch it.

It may seem like one is ridiculously better, but with a ten year gap, it's like apples to oranges.

Van Buren just seemed like what the designers wanted, and the company commanded. the design Docs were rather poorly thought out, and read like a fan fiction, not a finished product. I like the concept of all the Black Isle versions, but that's the thing, I like the concept, but the execution is poor at times. Not in the way that people complain that Fo3 is (NMA whines about the dumbest things like: "the animation bug that appeared in the pirated copy one time ruins immersion for ever!1!!!!!!!111!") I think that the original Fallouts don't feel like what they claim to be. That is why the people who complain can't adequately describe what is "Fallout" beyond simple mechanics.

Personally, I always thought that the environment in Fo1/2 was never really immersive, or well done, and the mood was always jumping around so much, that there was no true Fallout feel. It was a terrific game, unprecedented, even, but so is Fo3.

In fact Fo3 is a great achivement that follows the Fallout concept better than the original games in many ways, and also evolves the game into a larger playable world, full voice acting, and a much more immeresive environment.

Fo3 is more Fallout (as in the original idea that the designers had) than the original Fallout.

That is your opinion. Mine is diametrally the opposite. While i enjoy playing Oblivion & Fallout 3, i really feel sad because all that has been lost with the originals.

FO1 and 2 will always be the best games for me. Tactics was fun, although it was not a real RPG, and Fallout 3 is also fun but no Fallout in my opinion.

Let me start by saying that I'm a Fallout fan and that I played Fallout 1,2 and tactics. I would have to agree that Fallout 3 is kind of different and I expected the game to be like 1 and 2. Fallout 3 is amazing and I'm glad i have the game but, it lacks humor. I only came across a few things that i laughed at but with 1 and 2 you had laughed or enjoyed the outcomes of your character. There is alot that Fallout 1 and 2 have made the game enjoyable, which I know someone that played both 1 & 2 knows what i'm talking about. Fallout 3 seems to be missing that, i'm still in the middle of the game and i have explored alot of places and did alot of side quests, Lvl 13. and having a lvl limit kind of put a drag on playing the game more, cause once I reach lvl 20, i'm probably going to end up just finishing the game without discovering alot of places. I do get the point that they are trying to make you play again, which i probably will, but not right away. Its small things that fallout 3 missed, like where are the jimmy hats, super stimspacks, gaing funny perks like gravedigger, porm star..i know its a different game but they could have done something funny.
I do think they did a great job at the game but i hope when the make fallout 4 it has the same feeling as fallout 1 and 2 with the graphics of fallout 3. To me it does seems to be like Elders scroll, it just doesn't have the feeling as the other games.

This rhetorical question will probably be misunderstood, but I'll ask it anyway.

How can something that is not Fallout ruin Fallout, or even make it better?

To my mind, that is a very nicely put rethorical question and possibly the best I've read here so far. I do not mean to make a sarcastic statement at all, you are absolutely right: either it's "a real Fallout" or it's not but in case it's not, there is no way it could ruin the Fallout spirit.

-------------

The biggest problem is simply that Fallout was converted to a 3D game and that is something most so called Fallout veterans cannot quite understand. Not because "3D isn't the Fallout style", but because you had to use lots of imagination to play Fallout and Fallout 2. Just take the character sprites for example. All in all there were just a few more than a handful of different sprites. Even the important characters looked like all the others. When you talked to them you would be given a short description sometimes about how the character looked like. This is one of the many things, which made Fallout interesting and unique, but in a way that you often weren't even aware of what was so fascinating. It's something that can hardly be attained in a fully 3D enviroment, but it's not Bethesda's fault at all.

Apart from the crashes and some minor bugs I think Fallout 3 is a [censored] amazing game. It's fun, it definitely spreads a bit of the Fallout spirit, although it's a quite different from the original games. Fallout was unique, but so was Fallout 2 as in contained a lot more humuristic elements (I particularly loved when you put the cursor over a bunch of rubble a few times in a row and it said something like "You do not take your eyes off the stones, because they could possibly attack you"). Many people didn't like the more humoristic way, but I bet most of them are now nagging about Fallout 3 as well, naming Fallout 1 and 2 explicitly to compare these games with Fallout 3, though. Anyway, the humor in Fallout 3 is not as sick and twisted as in its predecessor, but it's funny though, for example the robots which are mumble something against you after talking to you in an over-polite way. It's just a part of the Fallout style and even most of the obligatory nagging videogame-fascists cannot deny that.

Regarding Oblivion, I realized that Bethesda has learned alot from the mistakes they made while creating Oblivion.

BTW, one very important point for me is that I noticed most of the things I really loved in Fallout/Fallout 2 while playing the game for the secong, third, fourth... time. And I have the feeling too that this will also be the case in Fallout 3.

All that is to say I am a Fallout veteran since 1998 (played the first game back then and bought the second after finishing the first about ten times) and I don't think Bethesda has 'ruined' anything. Not even the 'Fallout spirit' like so many claim.

Sorry for the long rant.

EDIT:
Just to tell everyone that I am not a complete "yes man" either: there are things I dislike, for example the lvl 20 'barrier', the 100 skill barrier and some other things like missing perks.

:slap:

You do not get to determine the intelligence of other posters.

:stare:

Thank you everyone else for keeping the discussion polite and constructive.

Ok,

I admit it, I'm an original Fallout junkie. I can't believe how long ago it was since I first picked up my copy of Fallout - but I feel old thinking about it.

No doubt, Fallout was a classic. Fallout 2 was great, if not a tad disappointing. (we won't speak of the bug ridden Brotherhood of Steel).

I was pretty indifferent when I heard about Bethesda taking on Fallout 3. Sure I had my concerns - for all the beauty of Oblivion - the level scaling was a disaster and the citizens felt lifeless. They were too ambitious. However, I thought I'd never again get to visit post-apocalyptic America, so I was pleased with the possibility of FO3.

My special edition Fallout 3 arrived on Friday and I'd taken the day off work (yes - I'm that sad). Here's my verdict:

Fallout 3 is clearly a Bethesda game AND... it's better than 1 & 2. SHOCK.

I've heard most of the complaints - "This just isn't Fallout any more".. "it's just Oblivion with guns"... "it's bug ridden..."

In a way they are correct when they say "this just isn't fallout any more". It's ten years since Fallout and clearly it's a visually different game. I LOVED Fallout but having played it again the week before FO3 - it doesn't really do it for me any more - not because of the graphically advancements and more powerful PCs, but perhaps because I'm a little older and perhaps because I'm conscious of the effects of nostalgia - I see it for what it is... a classic and a ground breaking piece of work which has enabled better games to follow. The FPS viewpoint is the most striking difference, but you can't put fully into words just how magnificent Fallout 3 is once you step out of the Vault and catch your first glimpse of the desolate wastelands.

Bethesda have changed the look of Fallout, the combat and much more, but they've captured it's spirit. From the broken and crumbling view to the bitter and diseased people, Fallout 3 is brimming with futility and a dark brooding humour. VATs brings with it FPS action and stats based combat. It's an RPG dream for a new generation.

Whereas Oblivion was all about the skill of the player, Fallout focuses on the skills and development of your character. It's the same team and engine, but the games are worlds (literally) apart.

With regards to bugs... I haven't encountered any (altho I am running it on a new monster rig - VISTA 64, Striker II, Q9650, 2x 280GTX, so that may be why).

I'd say this: If you loved Fallout, do what I did, embrace the future and take this game to heart, it's not how we remembered it - but that can sometimes be a good thing.

I adored Baldur's Gate and loathed the appalling Neverwinter Nights. They destroyed the soul of the genre with reckless abandon. Bethesda clearly share my love affair with Fallout. Sure they got some things wrong, but they got a hell of a lot right. From magnificently realised Vault 101, the glorious Pip-Boy to those dreadful choices they made me make in Megaton. 10 hours later and I still wonder if I made the right decision. However, it's too late to go back and I've just got to live with it.

Opinions are like [censored]s, everyone has one.

Not true, I determine the intelligence of many other posters.

The trick is not telling them about it :angel:

Words.

man F3 is 10 times better than fallout 1, and 2

No instead they just copied a bunch of NPCs from Oblivion, including voice actors, script writers and character models, and decided to call that the BoS.

And Van Buren isn't news to any real Fallout fan. The guys who start with FO3 are not Fallout fans. And that's a tech demo, not a final release, it's glitchy as hell, but probably not as glitchy as the garbage Bethesda sold to us.

Fallout 3 was designed to bring the Fallout Universe to the masses and appease the hardcoe series fans like us, F3 will never be F1 or F2 or even come close but I think the dev's were paying homage to the great universe that Interplay invented, not remaking a classic.

To be fair this is true with anything old enough to be nostalgic. You can try to compare the new and the old for years and not get anywhere, but I imagine you older people like to argue about these things (lol cheapshot I know, Im only 20). What bothers me though is its been what, 10 years since a last FO game? I would have been 10 years old myself and because I wasnt even aware of gaming back then it makes me one of these hated non-"Real Fallout fan" people.

You know what, I even picked up FO 1 and 2 at a pawn shop about a month before FO3 came out. So I load up FO1 and played for 5 mins and have not touched it since. Sorry guys, Ive tried to see where your coming from on your opinions about how great those games are but Im afraid your just experiencing nostalgia.

Go ahead and flame me for not having your fantastic imagination, or not sticking it out for longer, but I dont think the game industry is what it was 10 years ago. They didnt make FO3 just for the "Real Fallout fan", theres people like me who grew up on N64 and the Xbox... Frankly Im glad Im not considered a "Real Fallout fan" because that just means Im still young enough to enjoy a fantastic game like FO3.

Don't some of you guys never get tired of that same old record?

I loved the orginals and I still do. but I also enjoy this new fallout. I think benthesa has really improved themselves a lot in terms of how storytelling npc writing or quest structures go. It even has real roleplaying depth which seems a rarity these days. In fact many choises are hard as nails. Some of the wittyness we got see in the orginals is gone, the game is maybe more down-to-earth in someways, but a different storyteller - a different style.

I was quite afraird first time when this rumour of benthesa buying the rights for f3 was flowing around. How could they ever do justice to series? How could they capture the essence of fallout without ruining it or looking plain copycats. But they did it quite right. They stayed true to fallout spirit and made an orginal game with lots of depth and clever fun. Its like comparing the works of different artists. Different yes, but both good in their own ways. Its a rpg with an old school attitude. Game mechanics are somewhat different, but the spirit is the same.

Just play it and have fun. Criticize if you must, but atleast try it first. Don't judge a book by it's cover.

*Cough*The Republic of Dave*Cough*

Hear, hear!

In the end Fallout 3 was all about walking vast distances, spectacular slo-mo headshots, and confusing dark corridors. I would love to see a take on it like Diablo 3, without compromising the mission and dialogue depth and intelligence which permeated FO1 and especially FO2