In Oblivion, the only evil faction was the dark brotherhood. Most admit that the db questline was the most well written in the game. Do you guys think there will be more evil factions for the PC to join? Like necromancers for evil wizards and some sort of evil fighters guild? In oblivion, I was evil, but no one seemed to notice. Infamy was all but useless. Is there any chance the randomized quests will take you infamy into account as well?

I feel like if a necromancer player faction did exist, it would be more like the Telvanni. Which would be a great thing.

A lot of people, myself included, cringe at the use of the word "evil" in these situations. It's important in factions like that to never lay on the "evil" thing too heavy or to have the game itself imply that anything like that is "evil." It's okay if the player thinks the Dark Brotherhood is evil, it's okay if the in-game NPCs call the Dark Brotherhood evil, but the game should make no assumptions.

I think that's what you meant though, so yeah, I'd like to see a guild whose actions are not generally accepted under most people's morality, but not an "evil" guild.

agreed.

yeah making another "evil" faction will be great! like "necromancers"

but "good" faction should be too! like paladins or good rouges like "roobin hood"

Hah. Agreed. I feel like many of my characters would have liked to have joined some necromancer faction. Some might have thought they were morally questionable characters, but it was an interest to them. I hope this new Elder Scrolls game will include something like this.

I'll let your argument be mine. I think too many people know I loathe the whole "gud vs. eeeeviiilll" stuff.

Too many games these days force the player to either pick the good side, being overly heroic, jumping at any opportunity to save the nearest kitten stuck in a tree, or the evil side, running around the forest with a battle hammer smashing the branch off of every tree with a kitten in it until it plummets into a pit of flaming spikes, whereupon you eat its entrails and feed its brain to the owner in a bowl of chili, and then you tell them that was their kitten, and that the chili was also contaminated with small pox so they will die a slow and painful death without even the comfort of their kitten to ease he burden.

So basically you're either a goody two shoes or a brutish psychopath.

And that is why I hate "good guilds vs. evil guilds" stuff.

Exactly. And no one is like that in reality, and TES prides itself on being so similar to a real, living, breathing world. Forcing the player to be so black and white really ruins that feeling.

I love you. As you can obviously tell me from the forums, I also hate the word "evil" being used in these situations. My sig even says what I think.

It's either a hero or anti-hero scenario. Evil is a label people use on those who threaten them.

Exactly. But the Dark Brotherhood did kinda of seem evil(they enjoy the suffering of others, innocent or otherwise). I guess it was their portrayal though.

I have to disagree with the OP in that the DB questline was "well written". It was full of holes main thing dialog for one. The slaughtering of the other guild members totally brought me out of the story, Why would my character do that? Sure they didn't care much for the other members, but my character killed for money not for the pleasure of killing.
In that affect I never finished it, but I played through enough to say I didn't like it.

Another thing, in both Oblivion and Fallout 3 the "evil" groups were like Nazis. Especially the enclave. And no "evil" character would poison the water when they knew it would poison them.
Sorry. I've been wanting to say this for a while.

i left my pc in the mythic dawn faction which was great, your pc gets mythic dawn battle cries which made my "evil" role playing experience in oblivion even better :biggrin:

I agree with the bulk of what has been said. I don't like the idea of Skyrim weighing too heavily on contrasting good factions and characters with bad factions and characters. Bethesda should focus on making each faction a unique and interesting experience largely void of heroic and villainous archetypes, not catering to elementary "black and white," "good and evil" stereotypes that the player is surely already quite familiarar with. The faction quests can and should pose moral questions to the player, but it's important to not too forcefully provide the answer.

I don't know what games you've been playing but pretty much everyone is trying to be edgy by having morally gray plots. From New Vegas to Dragon Age, everyone's shades of gray. TES is pretty much the only RPG that still does traditional black vs white for the most part and I hope it stays that way. Not that I necessarily mind more neutral factions, just leave the good vs evil stuff in there too.

Agreed.

Shades of grey are so much more interesting than black and white. And that's how most guilds should be. Neither good, nor evil, but somewhere in between.

The only evil guild was the Arena. Seriously, making two people fight to the death for the amusemant of about 20 people standing in a near empty stadium, really? Couldn't delay the fight until you sold more tickets guys? Not even worth it...

I agree with you 100%. Leave the good vs evil stuff in, and maybe add some grey areas if possible. I see enough morally greyness in everyday life, I really dont feel the need to see it in every game i play.

All guilds should be morally grey, with maybe a few exceptions.

I hope you're able to join EVERY faction present in the game (Necromancers included), but joining one closes off routes into some of the others! For example if you were in the Mages Guild you couldn't join the Necromancers! Or if you were in a guild like the Dark Brotherhood the Mages Guild and Fighters Guild would be off limits to you.

They REALLY need to make the Necromancers a join-able guild.

As for the game telling people things are "evil", I don't think so at all. I think they did a good job in Oblivion at making things morally grey. The only time I had a problem with something like this was in Fallout 3 with the karma system. I hope they never add anything like that to Skyrim or the Elder Scrolls series.

Agreed.

I'm tired of moral ambiguity. I'm totally ready to go back to cut and dried good and evil. And yes, I'd love to see some evil guilds. Of evil paths to finishing them. The holy grail is an evil version of the main quest, but that will likely only be doable through mods.

I don't think factions should have that black and white approach to them.

I mean you could say Dark Brotherhood was evil to an extent but its not like they went around massacring towns etc.

But I would like more opposing factions that you could choose to align yourself with.

Why do you guys have to anolyse every question so fudging deeply? Can't you just ask the question without making a thing of thing(z)?

Do not beat around the bush either.