Evil Options for Each Guild

Post » Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:41 pm

There are many discussions of multiple endings for the main quest.
Personally, I prefer multiple endings for side quests.

Reasons are -

1. TES games are based on one main history.
2. TES games are about a freedom world to live in.

Since there are too many side quests in game,
the easy way to tell unique story would be optional guild endings.
For example:

Thieves' guild may choose to steal the name of the throne.
Fighters' can choose to kill all good dragons for unique power.
Mages' can learn to summon undead dragons feeding on souls.
Dark brotherhood, of course, may slay all guild masters and replace them with false ones.
(If you are already the guild master, you'll need to cheat Sithis.)

I know all these are not gonna be included.
Just think it one step closer to real role playing, and it's possible for future TES games.

What do you think ?
User avatar
Jeremy Kenney
 
Posts: 3293
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 5:36 pm

Post » Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:52 pm

inb4 this turns into another debate about moral relativism.... :D

In general - the more paths through the game, the better. I think there should be decisions scattered all the way through all of the more important quest lines, such as the faction quests, and that choosing a particular direction could have a profound effect on that faction, other factions, everything. The more the merrier.
User avatar
Queen of Spades
 
Posts: 3383
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:06 pm

Post » Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:34 pm

well solong there isn'\t any regulators or talon company included ...
User avatar
Sam Parker
 
Posts: 3358
Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 3:10 am

Post » Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:16 am

There are many discussions of multiple endings for the main quest.
Personally, I prefer multiple endings for side quests.


I will be honest: of all the things I love about Elder Scrolls games, guild quests are quite possibly the most in need of some reformation. You end up with a amalgam of bizarrely juxtaposed groups on your resume, and are many times pigeon-holed into making very specific choices in a very linear story. The Thieves Guild-Fighters Guild-C. Tong conflict was a refreshing change from this, in that if you joined one group and made certain choices, this had consequences in another group. There were also different ways the conflict could play out. We need more of this sort of thing in Elder Scrolls. If it can tie into the main quest, all the better.
User avatar
Mandi Norton
 
Posts: 3451
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:43 pm

Post » Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:05 pm

Sounds like it could be fun, but I think I'd rather just have more guilds that have more stable moral positions but war with each other. With like a Mages guild that is dedicated mainly to knowledge and teaching others, Telvanni-type elitist mages that conduct magical experiments with an amoral attitude and a dark magic guild like Necros or evil Conjurers who want political power over Skyrim by trafficking with undead and Daedric forces.
User avatar
Shirley BEltran
 
Posts: 3450
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:14 pm

Post » Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:11 am

More gray guilds IMO. I don't like it if all guilds are black or white.
User avatar
Lilit Ager
 
Posts: 3444
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:06 pm

Post » Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:42 pm

More gray guilds IMO. I don't like it if all guilds are black or white.

Agreed.
Neutralism within paradox can be fun if well written.
User avatar
zoe
 
Posts: 3298
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:09 pm

Post » Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:08 am

Leave "evil" and "good" out of TES. No, decisions should piss certain people off, and make others happy. That's all it really is. Of course, pissing the guards off will make them call you evil, but your allies in the Dark Brotherhood might see you as a powerful friend and assassin.

That's all any decision really ever is. Some people approve and some disapprove.
User avatar
A Lo RIkIton'ton
 
Posts: 3404
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:22 pm

Post » Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:16 am

Leave "evil" and "good" out of TES. No, decisions should piss certain people off, and make others happy. That's all it really is. Of course, pissing the guards off will make them call you evil, but your allies in the Dark Brotherhood might see you as a powerful friend and assassin.

That's all any decision really ever is. Some people approve and some disapprove.

I always love strong passion behind hard decisions, like Star War III.
It's fine even if nobody is happy about it...

They are rare in TES though.
User avatar
Valerie Marie
 
Posts: 3451
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:29 am

Post » Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:57 am

TES is also about canon, nobody wants another Warp in the West.
User avatar
Maeva
 
Posts: 3349
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:27 pm

Post » Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:59 pm

TES is also about canon, nobody wants another Warp in the West.

Well, in this case, I would like to express my support for Nobody.
User avatar
Jeremy Kenney
 
Posts: 3293
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 5:36 pm

Post » Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:29 am

Well I liked how in Morrowind, the game didn't judge you no matter which path you took. So, let's say you sided with Sjorting Hard-heart instead of Perseus Mercius. Either way, you get to the top and the Guild is strong, but there's just whether or not you can stomach your oathbreaking, cowardly traitor of a character, who will not get called out on it any farther than a disposition drop by some characters. Lets go back to that.
User avatar
Beulah Bell
 
Posts: 3372
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 7:08 pm

Post » Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:38 am

Well, in this case, I would like to express my support for Nobody.


Same here, I'd much rather have a fulfilling gaming experience where choices made during a playthrough have a huge impact on the world.

The canon can be whatever Bethesda decides, absolutely don't care whether the canon has anything to do with the details of any specific playthrough.
User avatar
Bek Rideout
 
Posts: 3401
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:00 pm

Post » Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:33 pm

TES is also about canon, nobody wants another Warp in the West.


That's a perfect example of how Lore can get in the way of the game. Fortunately, physics now says all outcomes are valid, such as with the Warp in the West. It's just a matter of what Universe in the infinite parallels that Skyrim will take place in following Oblivion. So there's no actual reason why more options can't be presented, yet only "One" is selected as "Cannon".
User avatar
LADONA
 
Posts: 3290
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:52 am

Post » Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:03 pm

That's a perfect example of how Lore can get in the way of the game. Fortunately, physics now says all outcomes are valid, such as with the Warp in the West. It's just a matter of what Universe in the infinite parallels that Skyrim will take place in following Oblivion. So there's no actual reason why more options can't be presented, yet only "One" is selected as "Cannon".


Hmm, I would really appreciate this if Bethesda took this approach from their games now on. Doubtfull though.
User avatar
Phillip Hamilton
 
Posts: 3457
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:07 pm

Post » Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:19 am

I don't think Bethesda should restrict their quest design to strictly linear paths just to appease the miniscule fraction of their customer base who are lore purists. They're making a video game, not recording scripture. Give us multiple outcomes. If that causes the lore fans to nerdrage on the forums, that's just an added benefit.
User avatar
Jessica Thomson
 
Posts: 3337
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:10 am

Post » Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:08 pm

you can be as evil as you want...aside from killing children...they will almost definitely still be invincible. I do not think you should have an "option" of sorts to choose to be evil, however I do hope that the game will allow a person to complete a quest in creative ways of your choosing. I think for the most part that has been allowed aside from certain quest that lock doors behind you and you're forced to proceed forward.
User avatar
Nicholas C
 
Posts: 3489
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:20 am

Post » Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:17 pm

Hmm, I would really appreciate this if Bethesda took this approach from their games now on. Doubtfull though.



I doubt it's a Bethesda problem, so much as it is a fan problem. Every Fan wants "Their" game to be canon, or they feel like "It didn't matter". I can't sympathize with that perspective as a fan, but as someone who understands a lot about writing and game design, it's just stupid to let that get in the way of creativity, for fear of an occasional inconsistency. If History teaches us anything, is that two accounts of the same event can be vastly different anyway.
User avatar
Svenja Hedrich
 
Posts: 3496
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:18 pm

Post » Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:58 am

you can be as evil as you want...aside from killing children...they will almost definitely still be invincible. I do not think you should have an "option" of sorts to choose to be evil, however I do hope that the game will allow a person to complete a quest in creative ways of your choosing. I think for the most part that has been allowed aside from certain quest that lock doors behind you and you're forced to proceed forward.

Discussion of controversial current events may be closed without notice if it appears the discussion has, or will, become disorderly. Likewise, discussion of killing children is not permitted as it is classed as mature content, neither is it a feature of Bethesda Softworks games.
Please. The mods REALLY don't like any mention of that topic.
User avatar
Daniel Lozano
 
Posts: 3452
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:42 am

Post » Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:38 pm

that doesn't work for either mages guild or fighters guild, fighters guild: are not cut throat mercenaries, their origin is back in a day where the empire could not afford to police remote areas of the empire so they were contracted to be what basicly the legion was in OB. they have a moral standard, doing evil would mean expulsion. the same with mages guild, their dedication is to develop magic for the better use of men/mer kind, so why would they tolerate an evil mage terrorizing people.

maybe it could be possible to give players a choice to corrupt the morality of each guild when becoming the grandmaster but even that still just doesn't seem to fit.
User avatar
suzan
 
Posts: 3329
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:32 pm

Post » Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:25 am

In the history of TES games, corruption among guilds does exist.
That's why we challenged guild masters in Morrowind.

However, we were never given a choice to make "radical" decisions -
Something like difficult choices given by fate.
Even pure evil may come with subtle reasons.
User avatar
Mr. Ray
 
Posts: 3459
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:08 am

Post » Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:34 pm

More black/white, tough decisions is what I'd like to see in the Elder Scrolls series. Everything is so comfortable neutral and linear.
While that provides help to oncoming lore it is generally restrictive to the games creativity. I'd like to see developers use their creativity to fill the lore gaps.
Most people from what I've seen have something against the basic good/evil for it is generally too common in media or lacks a summed amount of imagination.

In my point of view this is actually becoming too uncommon in games nowadays. Games like Dragon Age : Origins have a third 'perfect' and 'neutral' option, which is boring.
Or it is just the only option. The game Infamous on the other hand is quite known for the black / white decisions it lets you choose and boy was that tough, yet fun.
So I'm a bit like Gpstr - the more paths through the game, the better. Less paths in the game just cuts the replay value down a notch.
User avatar
GabiiE Liiziiouz
 
Posts: 3360
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:20 am

Post » Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:07 am

In the history of TES games, corruption among guilds does exist.
That's why we challenged guild masters in Morrowind.

However, we were never given a choice to make "radical" decisions -
Something like difficult choices given by fate.
Even pure evil may come with subtle reasons.


I guess in that context it would some what make sense. but still, it goes against the grain to join the hero's guild and do evil things, thats supposed to get you kicked out. similarly if you were to do some kind of good action in the DB (as a optional course in a quest) guild presumably they would assume you have gone soft and just killed you because you were a loose end.

but other wise we can already do evil things while in the fighters guild and good things in the DB. just not in quests, then we have to follow the options for morality that we are given.
User avatar
Allison C
 
Posts: 3369
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:02 am


Return to V - Skyrim