Evolution of the Bethesda Way

Post » Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:09 am

Well, about 50 hours in.



On the whole, I think Fallout 4 is a definite improvement on the whole Bethesda model of gameplay in many ways. I'll do this in 3 stages: Pros, Cons, and MAJOR Pros (just to end on a positive note!)




Pros:



1.) Settlements feel like a way of progressing, instead of being something "tacked on", like Hearthfire. Settlements are (overall) a meaningful way of filling in the gaps for gear, trade, and security that can't be found in the wasteland.


2.) Combat works. Rather than trying to remain "faithful" to the Fallout series, Beth just created something that worked for their vision -- and that's the ticket. It may not feel like it used to, but it feels great all the same.


3.) Beautiful world. I was initially concerned by the super-colorful palette in the trailers, but I really think the graphics gel in a way that feels very "Fallout-ish". Sort of like a cartoon that rusted away and became a bit too real. Nice aesthetic.


4.) Better balance with "Leveled Enemies". I felt more challenged playing through this than any Beth title since Daggerfall. I like how the game seems to give you an edge right before it takes it away again. (Yes, you still become godly in the late-game, but getting there is more of a struggle now.)


5.) The crafting. Oh...the crafting. I could spend (have spent) hours fiddling with my weapon scopes, and stocks, and muzzles, and armor, and power armor, and making more food, and we-need-another-shack-right-over-here-and-I-can-build-white-picket-fences-now-so-that's-happening-and-oh-my-god-I-can-serrate-the-edge-of-my-tai-chi-sword!!!




Cons:



1.) The bugs. The same, [censored] bugs. We have been seeing this same dysfunction for nearly a decade. Memory issues, texture issues, LOD issues... They're not new, they're the same bugs we saw in Oblivion nearly 10 years ago.


2.) Companion AI. Listen, Beth, just give it up. There is obviously no one in the company capable of developing companions that function in any meaningful way. They only function by getting in the way. It would have been better to simply make Dogmeat amazingly cool and let the modders handle companions.


3.) The interface. Here's something that should have stood out like a shining beacon in the night: the Pip-Boy functions almost exactly the same way as it did in Fallout 1. That's right -- the inventory system offers about the same level of functionality as a game made in 1997. The rest of the UI is clunky, time-consuming, obviously not configured for PC users, and does not even offer consistent inputs (press T to tag inventory...no wait, it's Q here...).


4.) The dialogue system. For a game that relies on role-playing a character, knowing what you're character is actually going to say during conversation is...pretty critical. This "wheel" system worked for Bioware because Bioware hires professional writers that can accurately "sum up" a string of dialogue while simultaneously capturing the correct tone. Bethesda writers seem to struggle with the basics of main idea, creative expression, and shades of meaning (all of which is high school level course material).


5.) Pop-ups. It's like living inside of a podcast playing this game. Pop-up messages...pop-up sounds...pop-up tutorials...pop-up emergencies...pop up experience...pop-up experience noises... Elegance is something that very, very few people understand. A "lack of elegance" sort of encapsulates all of my "cons". Bethesda needs to learn the concept of "less is more". The game should function like a perfectly trained waiter or waitress. You know they're there, and whenever you need something, it appears before you ask -- quickly, quietly, just like it had always been there, without intrusion. Bethesda games are like sitting down in a TGI Friday's and being served by insecure teenagers trying way too hard to show off how "energetic and funny!" they are.




Major Pros!!!:



1.) Freedom! -- No dialogue "rushing" us down the main quest line. We're once again free to engage in this wide-open world without feeling like we need to intentionally ignore the dramatic action the game is creating. It's OUR decision what the most pressing thing is. Vice-versa, when something pressing does happen, that feeling of "We need to go -- NOW!" is enjoyable once in a while. It's more exciting and meaningful.


2.) Player-Determined Progression! -- I had a major series of threads discussing this and many other things concerning Skyrim, and the general consensus was that the "per-use" system was interesting in theory, but created a lot of frustration in practice. Glad to see we get to decide who our characters become again.


3.) Factions That Matter! -- Finally, we feel like we're a "part" of something when we join one faction or another. It's unlikely you'll become "General [CharName] of the Minutemen, Elder of the Brotherhood of Steel, Savior of the Railroad, and Father of the Institute"...in 16 game days. Choices matter now, and actually affect the game's outcome.

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naomi
 
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Post » Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:15 pm

Why you People call this crafting? Isnt it more Modding? Because you just make existent Things better. I would like to craft new Impro Weapons and not like just Modding the existent ones. Something like Miniguns, Plasma Guns or whatever in Impro Style, just complete new Skins, more Power, bad-ass Look, you know.

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Cool Man Sam
 
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Post » Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:51 pm


*slow clap*



Aside from the pretty heavy Bethesda team bashing (because, honestly, they're a talented bunch, but what they work on is assigned to them, and that would be to blame for much of the cons) I think you are bang on the mark.

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ruCkii
 
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Post » Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:11 pm


True, but we can craft food and chems. I think people that are accustomed to playing mmos and other games with crafting refer to these systems as crafting systems.

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jessica sonny
 
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Post » Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:18 pm


Yeah, it's just a vestigial term now. Kind of like "RPG".

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Elena Alina
 
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Post » Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:53 pm


Yes, the charisma pop-up I could do without. Although, a "Your base is under attack" pop-up would be appreciated.


Also, while I'm thinking about it, the "whistle" to get my companions attention almost makes my blood boil. If someone whistled at me to get my attention I would PUNCH THEM IN THE FACE. Not really, but yeah I don't like that. lol



I do really like the combat in the game! They nailed it. NPC's are much smarter taking cover and actually use the bigger weapons. :tops:



I'm most impressed by the characters this time. They are absolutely great.

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aisha jamil
 
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Post » Sun Jan 17, 2016 1:49 am


It's a criticism, not a bash. Organizing employees to accomplish goals and deliver quality is part of any business. That's someone's job, as well. And it's not balanced very well at Bethesda, however it actually works. I think they're a fantastically talented team, and no one else could have delivered their titles (no one has ever come close, anyway). But making the same mistakes over and over again means they're no longer "mistakes" -- they're poor choices.



Making the same poor choices for 10 consecutive years and 5 consecutive projects...that's just lazy.



They are great games, though! -- once the community puts them in order, free-of-charge. So credit where it is due -- criticisms squarely where they belong.

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Elle H
 
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Post » Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:37 pm


Yeah, I want to punch my character in the face when that happens. Well, when i have a not-Dogmeat companion :hehe:


They are synonyms here ^_^
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Kelvin
 
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Post » Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:30 pm

You forgot characters. Characters are a big improvement over paperthin companions in Skyrim. In this game, the characters have their own backstory, their own personality, their likes and dislikes, their taste in food and music, their own sidequests, their goal and motives, even their breaking points, and you can relate more to them. They feel more like alive than ever.

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Lizzie
 
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Post » Sun Jan 17, 2016 2:12 am

Half of the (few) problems I personally have with Fallout 4 would be solved by using a newer, more advanced engine. Bugs and framerate in areas with a lot of NPCs, particularly.



Heavily modified Gamebryo engine, the Creation engine, can simply do so much. I think they've achieved all that can be achieved with this engine.

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Danii Brown
 
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Post » Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:06 am


Ha ha ha! I like the whistle thing. Fits with the whole Mad Max vibe that fallout has. (But I would definitely think about punching someone in the face that whistled at me like that. Ever notice how your character "talks" to the dog but "whistles" for human companions?)



Combat has definitely improved, in virtually every way. Smarter, faster, more options. Nothing has 5,000 hit points. I looove the sound of the .44's!



I wasn't criticizing the companions "characters", I was criticizing the "AI". They run in front of you, charge off out of sight, lag behind, block your way through doors, block your view of conversations. They have unlimited ammo with their default weapons, but waste your own ammo if you want to give them better weapons. And STOP COMMENTING EVERY TIME I PICK A @#$%!ING LOCK -- STOP TALKING! If you are going to have an NPC talk THAT MANY TIMES about the SAME @#$%!, RECORD MORE DIALOGUE!!! Just...go over there. Hm? What!? OH -- OH!!! YOU CAN'T DO THAT, HUH!!!??? (Sound of a minigun spinning up.)

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Kitana Lucas
 
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Post » Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:34 pm


Yes, an easier way of companion control would be great. Having them wait in a spot then moving somewhere else has almost turned into a mini-game. I am getting better though! :D

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Richard
 
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Post » Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:30 pm

I think Ultima VII had one of the best ideas for real-time combat. You assign a weapon and a tactic to each member of your party. When combat happens, you hit: "Go".



So I could tell my bruiser to attack the strongest enemy in sight, the next two melee characters would attack the nearest enemy. My two bowmen would each attempt to flank, the healer would fall back, and the kid travelling with us would attack the weakest enemy with his sling and maybe wrack up a kill now and then. I would simply puppet control my own character and fill in as needed. To execute everything I just described, I hit the "C" key. 1992. They had this in 1992. And it worked!



Yesterday, while specifically sneaking, Danse decided to charge a super mutant that hadn't detected us yet and try to stab it in the face with a gatling laser. 2016.

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Tanya
 
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Post » Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:18 pm

Play these builds!!


?? Bloody Crit Ninja ??

S.P.E.C.I.A.L. --- 1?3?1?1?9?7?6

Luck Focused (+++)

Perception (++)

Agility (+)

1st Skill Book - Int +1

* Wear Clothing & Accessories for Charisma


2. Bloody Mess

3. Better Criticals

4. Ninja

5. Nuclear Physicist

6. Locksmith

7. Locksmith II

8. Hacker

9. Hacker II

10. Bloody Mess II

11. Rifleman

12. Gun Nut

13. Gun Nut II

14. Nuclear Physicist II

15. Science!

16. Ninja II

17. Science! II

18. Locksmith III

19. Rifleman II

20. Rifleman III

21. Hacker III

22. Scrapper

23. Scrapper II

24. Better Criticals II

25. Gun Nut III

26. Nuclear Physicist III

27. Critical Banker

28. Science! III

29. Critical Banker II

30. Mr. Sandman

31. Bloody Mess III

32. Rifleman IV

33. Ninja III

34. Mr. Sandman II

35. Mr. Sandman III

36. Armorer

37. Armorer II

38. Armorer III

39. Gun Nut IV

40. Better Criticals III

41. Science! IV

42. Armorer IV

43. Critical Banker III

44. 4 Leaf Clover

45. 4 Leaf Clover II

46. Rifleman V

47. Bloody Mess IV

48. 4 Leaf Clover III

49. 4 Leaf Clover IV

50.


** Leftovers

- Penetrator

- Mysterious Stranger

- Action Boy

- Gun-Fu



?? Fallen Paladin??

S.P.E.C.I.A.L. -- 4?3?9?1?9?1?1

Agility & Luck Focus (++)

1st Skill Book - End


2. Big Leagues

3. Nuclear Physicist

4. Ghoulish

5. Cannibal

6. Lock

7. Lock II

8. Hack

9. Hack II

10. Big Leagues II

11. Solar Powered

12. Armor

13. Armor II

14. Nuclear Physicist II

15. Blacksmith

16. Blacksmith II

17. Big Leagues III

18. Lock III

19. Cannibal II

20. Lifegiver

21. Hack III

22. Lifegiver II

( Int Bobble-Head)

23. Nerd Rage

24. Ghoulish II

25. Armor III

26. Nuclear Physicist III

27. Big Leagues IV

28. Solar Powered II

29. Blacksmith III

30. Lifegiver III

31. Nerd Rage II

32.

33.

34.

35.

36.

37.

38. Cannibal III

39. Armor IV

40.

41. Science! IV

42. Big Leagues V

43.

44.

45.

46.

47.

48. Ghoulish III

49.

50. Solar Powered III

51. Nerd Rage III


** Leftovers

- Toughness

- Rad Resistant

- Refractor

- Action Boy

- Moving Target

- Blitz

- Bloody Mess

- Ricochet



:: Enjoy ::
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Amy Melissa
 
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Post » Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:49 pm


Yeah when you ignore that you can command your companion to stay behind or engage in FO4 literally on the fly even from a wide distance then it would be a valid critisicm. Yeah and taking the guy in Power Armor for a stealth mission is a great tactical choice btw.

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Roddy
 
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Post » Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:22 pm


lol - Danse has special feelings about supermutants. :P



I like the fact our companions do their own thing. Some of the things they do are pretty funny. It adds to their character and gives them life. If I could add one thing it would be a command like "Attack from here" which would allow me to point to a spot for them to snipe from or wait in this spot for x amount of seconds.

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Emily Jones
 
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Post » Sun Jan 17, 2016 2:12 am


More recently Final Fantasy XII and Dragon Age Origins had a "programmable" companion AI as well.
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Scotties Hottie
 
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Post » Sun Jan 17, 2016 12:46 am

Careful, i feel many people here actually dislike the factions, seeing them as too shallow or something like that. And people generally dislike the dialogue feeling it is too ropey. I personally enjoy the factions so far, seeing as how im not expecting novel quality story telling here, but I do find the dialogue to kinda rope you along into saying what it wants you to say. Overall I agree with you, I however have not experienced the same amount of frustration with the problems companions cause. Maybe it is because i started playing after the first few patches were released, but Companions hardly get stuck in door ways, and never for more than a seconds when they do, nor do they run ahead of me or attack what i wish not to be attacked. Except for Dogmeat, but hell, i raised him to be aggressive in this post-apocalyptic landscape anyway.

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Lauren Denman
 
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Post » Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:00 pm


FFXII had a similar system that worked absolutely beautifully. You could basically program a set of if-then conditionals (choosing arguments from a fairly comprehensive list of triggers, actions, targets, etc.) for each party member, and they would execute them in order of priority. So your healer might look like:



1: If [party member] [hit points] [<=] [50%] then [cast Cure]


2: If [party member] [status] [=] [poison] then [cast Poisona]


3: If [party leader] [=] [in combat] then [Attack my target]



I suspect it may have been a bit much for casual players and/or people without programming experience, but once I got the bulk of the arguments (which took most of the game, thank you Squeenix for your Byzantine game design philosophy) I could get my team to do what I needed them to do, when I needed them to do it, with impressive consistency.



Unrelated: It's been decades since I did any programming, so forgive me if my terminology is wrong.

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Andrew Perry
 
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Post » Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:23 pm


I remember you could exploit a certain room to continuously spawn enemies, and with a certain party setup and tactics you could just leave your playstation on overnight to hit max level without lifting a finger :P

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John N
 
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Post » Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:28 pm


Good post!



I agree with most of the pros and cons, specially those regarding inventory, UI and dialog system, i do however want to "argue" with your last point about factions!


While advancing your way trough the BoS, Institute and Railroad do work as you point them out and require some time investment and work, The Minuteman chain however is nothing but, you get promoted to General 2 minutes into the game, that was for me at least a major letdown :/



The same can be said about the Power Armor, i think obtaining it for the first time should have been pushed a bit back trough the game, it would have felt more rewarding that way and way more of a bigger deal.

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Queen
 
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Post » Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:29 pm

I don't get why they changed the hud from the awesome Fallout 3/NV design to...this boring simplistic crap. I wish they kept the same hud.

Also on Companion AI and bugs, I've actually noticed the game has less bugs skyrim did at launch. This is probably Bethesda's most stable release so far and the AI for both companions and enemies have actually been kinda great imo

Otherwise this is a really good post, OP.
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Pawel Platek
 
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Post » Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:09 am


While you get to promoted to a general from a group which consists of 5 people (actually it's only one) which the game tells you btw. on this occastion.

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My blood
 
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Post » Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:15 pm


Sorry, but i might be missing what you are trying to say, your point?

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Michael Korkia
 
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Post » Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:44 pm


The point is that you are "General" of Preston at this time. A absolute meaningless title (and the game is aware of it, it even tells you that so you should recognize it too). It's Preston playing with the big big ego of the charachter nothing more and btw. you can say no.

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kyle pinchen
 
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