[WIP] Evolved Armamentarium

Post » Tue May 17, 2011 12:37 pm

Introducing a mod that myself and That Bloke have been working on for the last month. It aims to be the premier mod to add all possible weapon options to Morrowind. We are really excited about this.
I have already sunk over 200 hours into making all of the models and icons for this. 99% of them are done. I am now finishing up CS entry work. I still have other issues to address too.
Scripting is almost at a proof of concept/tester release.

Sandman101 - Model edits - CS work
That Bloke - Scripting

Various others have been asked for help with certain issues. As progress is made their names will be posted.

Need -
Graphic artist - For help with a few texture issues and possible splash screen
Testers - When ready we will need several testers

Better Bodies - Required
Unofficial Morrowind Patch - Suggested

Scope of Mod

Adding automatic sheathing to Morrowind with out adding scripts to the weapons.
Compatible with Weapon Rotate.
Minimal impact to stock equipment
No disappearing clavicle pieces
Adding off hand weapons to Morrowind - Sheathing when possible
Adding quivers with minimizing arrows. 25, 10, 5, 1, and zero.
Adding shields on back
Configuration scripts for 1 handed weapons to sheath on the back or the side. Your choice.
All 2 handed weapons sheath on the back
Dual pauldrons, Gauntlets, Bracers and Gloves. Wraithguard compatibility with all choices. Some will be required to make sheathing to work.
Torches taken into account in scripting
Two handed weapons taken into account for shield being equipped stat bonus'.
And much, much more.

The goal of this mod is to (as much as MW scripting and body limitations will allow) make weapons act more like weapons in other RPG games.
You will have an item in your inventory, an item that will allow you to access the configuration menu and other choices at any time. Right now we have settled on a retextured set of prongs.
Quivers will equip automatically upon equipping arrows. Bow also. Arrows will reduce in you quiver as you deplete them.
All stock 1 handed weapons will be able to be off hand weapons(shields). I believe it will be a choice upon picking them up off of the ground. Not completely sure ATM.
Shields will automatically equip to your back when you draw a 2 handed weapon. (options in config. menu)
Any 2 like pauldrons, Gauntlets, Bracers, and gloves will be able to be combined and and will only use the right slot. Leaving the left open for usage for sheathing. Again WraithGuard is compatible with any left handed option including clothing and Jury rig wraithguard. Lefthanded wraithguard included. No more daedric glove. Thanks to Alaisiagae and ALphaX.

Many other ideas are in the works for this mod, including:

Weapon replacer compatibility-
Unique weapon replacers will be fully compatible with this mod. All of the unique items like Hopesfire, Trueflame, will just need the appropriate meshes made and positioned properly. Then dropped in data files with proper folder path. Others can do this if they like. Credit will be given of course. I will tackle the most popular ones at some point.

Weapons that don't have unique meshes but are "unique" in the fact of the way they are named. Like King's Oath, Soul Drinker, The meshes will eventually be set up to make any replacer compatible with it.
For now we are focusing on function. Once the mod works well we can expand to these things.

Adding missing weapons -Weapons that weren't made. There are big holes in Bonemold, Chitin, etc... Why do the dwemer have a crossbow but no bolts? Why only 2 orcish weapons and bolts but no crossbow?
Look out for thread(s) on this topic. Many will need to be made. I have about 15 already. Optimially I would like to see a new mesh using stock textures(so replacers effect it).
For now, some weapons being considered to fill the holes are from Quorn, Greater Dwemer Ruins, Midgetalien and Kagz.
Anybody that is serious about helping start this aspect of the project, PM me. I will send you a spreadsheet(open office) that will show weapons being considered and more details.

Several fixes have been incorporated into this mod. Weapons that are in the data files but not included n the game have been added. Short Ice Blade(sthalrim), Dwemer and Daedric longspear.
The iron tanto now uses it's mesh instead of the steel tanto mesh. The UMP does the same thing. But for continuity sake, in case you don't use it, it's been included to make the sheathing visually seamless.
I have sent a e-mail to the maker of the Ebony Armor fixes(Sapphron). In lieu of permission for usage, I just did the same thing my self and adjusted the ambient material property. But, credit goes got to Sapphron for doing it first.

Quivers - We have discussed adding in more quiver arrow reduction. I personally would like to see 2, 3 and 4 done at some point. It will be a script addition and a lot more models. The quiver with 5 arrows would need to be edited and added to the body parts and Armor for each reference. Anyone wanting to volunteer to do this. Let me know and I will send you the files to do this. Credit will be given.
Warning this is approx 900 meshes that need to be edited and entered.
Being worked on by Kiteflier61.

Most of the meshes for this mod are stock MW that have been edited with nifscope. The size will be large but that has been taken into account as much as possible. At present time it is about 220 MB uncompressed. Approx. 5000 meshes at this time. Yes it is large, but it is the only way to make this work and make it compatible with existing armor.


There will be clipping with some items. This is unavoidable. Robes, Dwarven cuirass will be the worst offenders. Position of the weapons has been taken into account to make it not clip with the most amount of armor. No one position will work with all armors. The default weapon placement will be used for all sheaths unless you are using a pauldron that has a clavicle piece. Some of their placements have been adjusted because of their size. I plan to include a tutorial on how to adjust the weapon position so anybody will be able to adjust to their own preferences.

Once That Bloke has the scripts hashed out it will be ready for testing. As you can imagine this mod will require a lot of testing. We will need several testers. All races, sixes, weapons and armor will need to be tested.

All files of the mod will be released in a bsa. The main reason is so nobody can misplace the files. The second reason is so that any changes/addons people make for the mod will be able to be installed and not effect the base files. The mod will be uploaded in 2 parts. The resources and the esp(esm?). This will so That Bloke and myself can upload any need fixes as quickly as possible.

Most all of the meshes rely on stock textures. So any texture replaces will effect them. The only pieces are a few of the quivers that I had to make textures for. I would welcome anyone that want's to work on these quivers and make them rely on stock textures.

Scripting will rely on globals and start/stop script a lot. That Bloke is currently working on getting all of the issues to play nicely together. Then it will just be bulking out the scripts.


Credits for original ideas go to all of their respective owners. This mod is a new attempt to make sheathing work better.
Bodvar - for doing the "Shields on Back" first (None of these models uses)
PeterNL- for his Sheathing mod (None of these models uses)
Yacoby - For a large portion of the off hand weapon meshes
Alaisiagae - Left Wraithguard mod
ALphaX - Left Wraithguard mod
Dongle & Snakebitten - Quiver and arrow meshes
The Twyleth mod team - (Specifically Phijama I think) for the neck mesh
Sapphron - For fixing the ebony pauldrons color. Not used - Replicated fix.
User avatar
Latisha Fry
 
Posts: 3399
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2006 6:42 am

Post » Tue May 17, 2011 2:11 am

I could be a tester my understanding of blender is.... limited to say the least
User avatar
josie treuberg
 
Posts: 3572
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:56 am

Post » Tue May 17, 2011 10:52 am

Almost all of the model work for this project has been done with NifScope. The only models that will be needed going forward are weapons for the completion aspect.

The first test releases will be forthcoming as That Bloke gets the scripts into working form. It is a lot of scripts doing multiple things. Going to take some work to get them all playing right and then start adding features and fine tuning.
It's going to be a process for a while for sure.

What we are hoping to do is build something that not only updates MW's sheathing mods, but something that will encompass of the the other equipment deficiencies. The core idea just kind of grew and grew until it only makes sense to bundle all of these ideas so they can work together.
We've been talking about (as a later feature) adding backpacks to this mod.
The will be using the same body parts as this mod. Therefore they would conflict. Might as well make them compatible! There may even be configurable options on them.

Some of the aspects of the mod will include using your armorer hammers. Like it cost one hammer to make a set of dual gauntlets, another to take them apart.
Any dual item, has all of their stats doubled unless it would change it's armor rating. So, weights on some of the sets are just maxed out for their class. This way to medium pauldrons don't end up as heavy armor.

One issue at the moment that is on the back burner is a fix for paperdoll showing the weapon in hand(when equipped) and sheathed at the same time. Turns out the current fix wasn't feasible. I'm not sure if this is fixable but there sure are a lot of smart scripters around here. I'm not one of them though.

I'm really excited about this mod. I can't wait until we get some active testing going. :biggrin:
User avatar
Terry
 
Posts: 3368
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:21 am

Post » Tue May 17, 2011 2:43 am

I've been dying to use a sheathing mod, but I don't like any of the current ones out right now. :) I'll be happy to test when its ready.
User avatar
Vicki Gunn
 
Posts: 3397
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:59 am

Post » Tue May 17, 2011 12:08 am

I've been dying to use a sheathing mod, but I don't like any of the current ones out right now. :) I'll be happy to test when its ready.


Same here, which is why I eventually got so frustrated I started my own, and then ran into Sandman who was doing the same, so we teamed up! I'm really lucky to be working with Sandman on this. As well as being a cool guy he has an amazing attention to detail, and can churn out class NIF files like a one-man factory. :) Trust me the majority of the work has been done by him, I'm just glad I can bring all this hard work to life in-game.

This mod is designed differently. First off we've not touched a single stock item directly. Instead we're using global scripts to identify the equipment in use by the player and their actions, the scripts then add and remove our items as needed. This gives us compatibility with other mods, it also means sheaths aren't dependent on the item being equipped to work. Eg. When you use a torch, the shield is slung on your back. Sheath your bow and draw your sword, and the the bow is still visible attached to the quiver. Sheath your sword and you'll see both! I'm the only person who's seen it working yet, it looks really cool. :)

By default we don't even override a single equipment slot. We have put in dual versions of all the gloves, gauntlets, bracers and pauldrons; but there's no items added to the game world. Instead you use a scripted pair of prongs we add to your inventory to join up items you own that match. Once you've doubled up your pauldrons and gloves they take the right-hand slot and that leaves two free slots for a weapon sheath (glove/bracer) and a quiver, off-hand weapon or shield on your back (left pauldron). This is where Sandman's attention to detail kicks in - no missing clavicle for shoulder items, the quivers match your pauldrons, it's premier stuff.

Here's where I'm at - the four core scripts the mod hinges around are pretty ready for play-testing. However, given the sheer amount of items Sandman has needed to create (5K new NIFs! And yes, we're using a BSA file.) I'm using only a limited set of equipment right now. I'm having a good stab at the paper doll fix, I hope to have it up and running tomorrow - either way I'll be sending the scripts off to Sandman this weekend. Then what I need to do is start bulking out the scripts will all of Sanman's objects. This will take me a week to two weeks (I have to do some paper work for my visa this week as my green card is coming up for it's initial renewal) and then as Sandman's NIF files are well ahead of my work we'll be ready for the first round of playtesting.

Then during the refinement period after the initial beta I want to factor in off-hand weapons, a torch/shield toggle. I know Sandman and I are both interesting in some kind of backpack addition as well. Exciting stuff!
User avatar
Mariaa EM.
 
Posts: 3347
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:28 am

Post » Tue May 17, 2011 12:31 am

I like your approach, leaving it to the player to decide whether they want a certain pair of gloves, gauntlets and so forth, joined or not. But what about a pair of different items? Not every player will get his hands on two of the same pauldrons at the same time and thus may resort to choosing a second one simply for the extra protection.

But on the other hand, if that would work in the same way, an exponential number of NIFs would have to be created...
User avatar
OTTO
 
Posts: 3367
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 6:22 pm

Post » Tue May 17, 2011 9:36 am

But on the other hand, if that would work in the same way, an exponential number of NIFs would have to be created...


That is exactly why we haven't added that in...yet. It would be a lot of meshes to make. At this point. I think were are really just trying to build a stable core of the idea. We have to get some testing feedback on stability on different systems, FPS hit. Once we have that we can decide which features would be best to add in first. This is the type of mod that will reach a size limit. Download wise and script wise.

I've already tried to set up Wraithguard for this. I've tried to give you every option with it including clothing. Right now I am at the point of tackling the stats and enchantments for those combined items.

Here's one on my issues. Combining some pauldrons means making some compromises in the enchantments. Not all of them are readily compatible. Wraithguard uses all 8 enchantment slots. So, how do I add enchantment when combining with (for example) Fists or Randagulf?
Right Waithguard -
Shield 10
Reflect 20
Resist Blight Disease 50
Resist Shock 10
Resist Fire 10
Resist Frost 10
Resist Magicka 10
Resist Poison 10

Left Fist
Fortify Agility 20

I have to drop at least one enchantment to add the Fortify Agility for the FIst of Randagulf? So what do I do??
There are literally hundreds of these issues. It's going to take some time to iron out a lot of these issues.

I could see adding in Weapon Balance issues into this project too.
User avatar
Maria Leon
 
Posts: 3413
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:39 am

Post » Tue May 17, 2011 8:05 am

Here's one on my issues. Combining some pauldrons means making some compromises in the enchantments. Not all of them are readily compatible. Wraithguard uses all 8 enchantment slots. So, how do I add enchantment when combining with (for example) Fists or Randagulf?

I have to drop at least one enchantment to add the Fortify Agility for the FIst of Randagulf? So what do I do??
There are literally hundreds of these issues. It's going to take some time to iron out a lot of these issues.


Oh wow, I had no idea you were planning all possible combinations. I just assumed the fists of Rangulf would become one pair and couldnt be mixed and matched. Essentially getting oblivions gauntlet/pauldron system in return for oblivions sheathing system - a trade i'd be willing to make. Especially if the sheathes showed up on npcs..
User avatar
emily grieve
 
Posts: 3408
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:55 pm

Post » Tue May 17, 2011 1:44 am

Yeah we have a lot planned. But we are limited by what MW scripting will do, finding body parts/slot to use and the game mechanics we can't change.

As for all possible combination's, Like I said, right now I only have right handed wraithguard set up for all possible combination's. It is the one item that everybody in the game will use and with so many playstyles, it only makes sense to address that issue first.

We have yet to find any feasible way to make all npc's utilize the sheath's. I'm not sure if it's possible. Even with all of the scripting guru's around here. Although I would love to see that myself. It's definitely on my wish list.


One of the issues that I believe has been successfully worked around. Armor equip sounds and enchanted armor equip sound. This was one of the things that bothered me about http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=8734. If you wore an enchanted pauldron, like Her hand's, every time you drew and sheathed your bow. It made the CE enchantment equip sound.
That bloke has found a way around it. One by combining the pauldrons and 2 by suppressing the sound through scripting.
Again, we've had to entertain dozens of these issues. I'm sure more will crop up as testing starts.
User avatar
Rachael
 
Posts: 3412
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:10 pm

Post » Tue May 17, 2011 4:35 am

I've been thinking about NPC scripting too. As I see it there's too many variables for TES script to cope with.
What's the NPC'c object ID? What are they wielding? What are they wearing?
We can do ->GetWeaponDrawn, etc. But then you've got to attach a custom script to each NPC

Maybe a MWSE guru could come up with a script that can ID the currently equipped weapon in use by a PC. But even then how do you need different sheaths to use different slots that are free. Take the female Redoran guards, I think the only slot they have free are the pants slot. So you could give them double items, and we're back to editing NPCs individually which is just a nightmare for mod compatibility.

There's a good mod that adds some variation to the guards, we could certainly edit that and give the guards sheathing weapons (as we can safely attach scripts to the guards):
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=27765
User avatar
Charlotte X
 
Posts: 3318
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:53 am

Post » Tue May 17, 2011 5:43 am

I could see the guards as a good visual impact for the mod. Plus a good test group. Just downloaded. Looks good initially. I guess I could see something like this added in. My biggest worry is making sure it not only compatible with mods like "Protective Guards" but playable with it too.

If were going to edit the guard lists, I have a few things to interject first. I did a similar mod to this and only made a limited release. Although I was removing every guard and replacing them with a leveled list of guards, I was adding different animation packages to them. The one animation I really liked was the drunk one. I could see that happening. Three or Four to many the night before and it only ended one hour before his shift.

I also think we should do something like the "Standard Uniforms". I can not find the mod right now but http://img441.imageshack.us/i/standarduniforms.jpg/. It changes the guards armors slightly between different level guards. It only does Imperial. But there are several pieces of Legion armor.
Leveled list guards. I don't think the lists should actually be leveled. You should be able to get the level 80 guard at level one character and vice versa. A level 10 guard as a level 80 character.

I would suggest about 20 guards for each "Level" of them we do or one list of about 100 guards in it level 1 to level 100.
One list for each type of guard, Imperial, ordinator, Hlaalu, etc...


This script would be the same for each guard except for the guard's ID, right?
User avatar
keri seymour
 
Posts: 3361
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:09 am

Post » Tue May 17, 2011 2:31 am

A very interesting read. I'm quite glad this was pointed out to me actually. I really like everything that you guys are trying to do with this. I really hope everything winds up working out with it. Reading up on everything I do have a few possible solutions for some of the things that seem to have come up here.

Here's one on my issues. Combining some pauldrons means making some compromises in the enchantments. Not all of them are readily compatible. Wraithguard uses all 8 enchantment slots. So, how do I add enchantment when combining with (for example) Fists or Randagulf?Right Waithguard -Shield 10Reflect 20Resist Blight Disease 50Resist Shock 10Resist Fire 10Resist Frost 10Resist Magicka 10Resist Poison 10Left FistFortify Agility 20I have to drop at least one enchantment to add the Fortify Agility for the FIst of Randagulf? So what do I do??There are literally hundreds of these issues. It's going to take some time to iron out a lot of these issues.I could see adding in Weapon Balance issues into this project too.


For things like this, I know it's not really ideal, since it won't be instantly identifiable, but how about scripting the enchantments. Obviously will want to put some kind of enchantment on, but the missing ones could be added on with a script. I've done something sort of like that, only under different circumstances while I was trying to make an "armor bonus" thing, There were issues that came up with that because of player enchanted armor, and that's why I wound up scrapping it in the end, but it could be a perfect solution for this.

My biggest worry is making sure it not only compatible with mods like "Protective Guards" but playable with it too.


That was one issue that actually came up with my mod. There was a slight incompatibility there, that I'm honestly not sure how it came about. There was a little bit of discussion on it, and fliggerty even popped in, and from the way it sounded, the way his mod was designed should have worked fine. I'm really not familiar with MWSE, so I don't know. It take me hours to get a simple script to work right with the normal functions TBH. I can see how editing the NPCs individually for a mod like this would be hard to do, If you'd like, feel free to take what I've done here, and use it as a base for whatever you are wanting to do with the guards. If you're wanting to do something like this, at least it can eliminate some of the workload you guys have ahead of you.

I can also offer my help on this in any way that I possibly can. I do have quite a bit of experience working with nifskope, and the CS in pretty much all areas.
User avatar
Kathryn Medows
 
Posts: 3547
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:10 pm

Post » Tue May 17, 2011 12:43 am

I like your approach, leaving it to the player to decide whether they want a certain pair of gloves, gauntlets and so forth, joined or not. But what about a pair of different items? Not every player will get his hands on two of the same pauldrons at the same time and thus may resort to choosing a second one simply for the extra protection.
But on the other hand, if that would work in the same way, an exponential number of NIFs would have to be created...

That is exactly why we haven't added that in...yet. It would be a lot of meshes to make. At this point. I think were are really just trying to build a stable core of the idea. We have to get some testing feedback on stability on different systems, FPS hit. Once we have that we can decide which features would be best to add in first. This is the type of mod that will reach a size limit. Download wise and script wise.

Oh wow, I had no idea you were planning all possible combinations. I just assumed the fists of Rangulf would become one pair and couldnt be mixed and matched. Essentially getting oblivions gauntlet/pauldron system in return for oblivions sheathing system - a trade i'd be willing to make. Especially if the sheathes showed up on npcs..

Weighing in on this... In my opinion we should just shoot for combining items with matching meshes for now. By my calculations to support all combination (even assuming gloves are never paired with bracers or gauntlets) we would need to create over 2500 additional meshes and well over 3000 additional armor/clothing esp objects to support mixing and matching. That's a BIG overhead, and like Sandman101 says we are already pushing against practical limits.

Remember, that by default the scripts try to ensure sheaths, quivers etc. will not be added to your character unless the relevant left-hand slot is free. Equip something in the left-hand slot and the sheath will politely delete itself when you leave the menu. So what this mod offers is an in-game dynamic choice between the default Morrowind system - mix and match, no sheathing; or the Oblivion system, matching gloves and pauldrons, sheaths, quivers. (We also add dual wield and slung shields too.) So lower level characters may need all the additional protection they can get, but once they have located matching items you can combine them and get your sheaths visible. For me at least this is an acceptable trade-off against all the additional overhead.

We've tried to keep things as flexible as possible. As well as combining left and right had items into dual items, they can be split back into separate items. However, as they will come back at full health to balance this I am going to have the script remove one of the worst quality repair hammers in your inventory, and refuse to do the split unless you have at least one. I'll put in a global for people to switch this off, for testing and those that want to cheat. :)

I can see how editing the NPCs individually for a mod like this would be hard to do, If you'd like, feel free to take what I've done here, and use it as a base for whatever you are wanting to do with the guards. If you're wanting to do something like this, at least it can eliminate some of the workload you guys have ahead of you.

I can also offer my help on this in any way that I possibly can. I do have quite a bit of experience working with nifskope, and the CS in pretty much all areas.

Many thanks, both your offers are generous. I personally say the more the merrier! :)

At this point I want to consider how we package up the mod, there's a lot of content being discussed and I think it will get too unwieldy unless we make it modular. Here's what I'm thinking - package up all the items that don't make any changes to the world in and ESM master file, that's the scripted inventory items, player's sheaths, quivers, slung shields, dual items and off-hand weapons along with their sheaths. A big benefit here is that esm files are loaded first before esps, due to the way the StartScript function works (and I'm using StartScript a lot in the scripts) we will reduce FPS overhead of the mod signficantly by being higher in the load list.
Then additions to the game world could be handled by optional esp files that are set as dependent on the master file. So far I see two plug-in eps:
  • Backpacks and additional weapons
  • Guards with sheathing equipment

I agree with Sandman101 that guards leveling with the player should be kept to a minimum, but there should be different levels of guards. Regarding adding equipment to them I would suggest the following guard types (probably each would need a separate script):
  • Standard town guards with a slung shield and a sheathed sword.
  • Archers in the appropriate locations with quivers, slung bows and a sword on their belt. No shield.
  • Spearmen, with a belted sword and a spear or halberd that sheaths to the right gauntlet slot, so they hold the weapon when they don't have weapon drawn. I would love to see an idle animation where those standing guard hold the spear upright, resting it against the ground.

Also it would be nice to add some kind of fur cloak to the poor Imperial soldiers posted out on Solstheim, their current garb doesn't look like it would keep them warm in that cold.
User avatar
lydia nekongo
 
Posts: 3403
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:04 pm

Post » Tue May 17, 2011 2:22 pm

@ NazoX9 - :wavey: Thanks for stopping by. Appreciate your input and offer!
Fliggerty's Protective guards mod is supposed to check the name of the npc for "guard". Not sure if it checks the CS id. It was compatible with the mod I released.
The only reason I hesitate on the scripted spells is ....more scripts. I'll have to bounce that ball over to That Bloke to see what he thinks. But it is a possible solution.

I was already thinking that the master file should be a esm. Exactly for the reason you said. It should be high in the load list.
My only concern about the additions is, having to many. I don't understand all of the nuances of the scripting but, will they have to be re-written(edited) for each addition? Possible to use multiple additions easily?

I like all of your suggestions for the guards, TB. We can really customize each town's guard's nicely.
Since they guards will have specific, limited equipment, should make a few things easier.
User avatar
Dan Endacott
 
Posts: 3419
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:12 am

Post » Mon May 16, 2011 11:14 pm

The only reason I hesitate on the scripted spells is ....more scripts. I'll have to bounce that ball over to That Bloke to see what he thinks. But it is a possible solution.

It's not me you need to ask, it's my extremely tolerant but currently mod-widowed wife... :rolleyes:
Seriously though, I've not played around with scripted spells, but I would think we could add local scripts that add curses with positive values to the player when the item is equipped. My understanding is that this works in-game just like an enchantment (but doesn't show as an enchanted item for those who don't use a no-glow patch). I was considering an approach like this for the backpack mod.

Re. the esp and esm files - actually, for once, I can say this is something about scripting that Morrowind handles elegantly - scripts work just like the other objects. So long as an esp is dependent on a master file then you don't need to add any content to the esp that is already in the esm. E.g you can attach a script from the esm to an object in the esp without having to include the script in the esp. If you do include a copy of a script with the same name as one in a dependent master file the esp one will be the one that runs. I hope this all makes sense.

Certainly, adding anything to the scripts that list and ID all the stock equipment would be clumsy. So for additional weapons, I would deal with this by having the weapon launch it's own included sheathing script when equipped and set a flag that tells the main sheathing script not to do anything until a different weapon is equipped. This would actually be a performance boost, rather than a hindrance. It would be easy enough to come up with a generic template that can be edited for each weapon by find/replacing a few variables.
User avatar
Matt Bee
 
Posts: 3441
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:32 am

Post » Tue May 17, 2011 2:40 am

Hi there!, "Esto tiene buena pinta" or this is looking good!

I had hope that the expansion on sheating and wielding mods would come to this (wich I consider to be a breack throug). I know it{s gonna be an excelent mod and a revolution in the concept of graphical and inmersion/ char customization.

I have an idea for you guys. It{s a minnor thing to think but I think not so minnor to implement therefore I would understand if you say it can{t be done. "In the heat of battle we all have had our weapon broken against an ogrim head or dremora shield, and so I think: Would it be possible if no back up weapon is available to equip a remaining shield as a weapon to bash down that last injured foe wich otherwise will send us to an early grave?"

Just an idea no strings attached and certainly no presure. You both are already doing a great effort for an amaizing mod!
User avatar
Natalie Taylor
 
Posts: 3301
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:54 pm

Post » Tue May 17, 2011 1:45 pm

It is a lot of scripts. One thing I was wondering is how much of the scripting do you guys have done atm, and how big of a hit is it to framerate at the moment?
User avatar
Oscar Vazquez
 
Posts: 3418
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 12:08 pm

Post » Tue May 17, 2011 1:14 pm

-clip-
We've tried to keep things as flexible as possible. As well as combining left and right had items into dual items, they can be split back into separate items. However, as they will come back at full health to balance this I am going to have the script remove one of the worst quality repair hammers in your inventory, and refuse to do the split unless you have at least one. I'll put in a global for people to switch this off, for testing and those that want to cheat. :)
-clip-

How about requiring the duel item to be completely repaired before allowing it to be split back into separate items? Should be possible to do this conditionally thru full repair merchant dialogue - and by using an invisible merchant NPC if you want to allow it 'in the field'. That would avoid having to check for and remove repair items, and mitigate the item health balance issues. :lightbulb:


You guys might want to make it clear that this mod will only be useful for those who mostly play in 3rd-person mode, at least until you find a way to implement NPC / companion support since there's not much to see in the way of slinged / sheathed items on the PC from 1st-person mode. :whistling:
User avatar
^_^
 
Posts: 3394
Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 12:01 am

Post » Tue May 17, 2011 6:48 am

I have an idea for you guys....

Are you asking to have the last prior weapon equip if your current weapon breaks? Automatically? Or pull out your shield? It sounds like it might (and I stress might) , be possible. I know that the scripts already keep track of that type of info I believe. So I'd say it's possible to do it, but detecting that the weapon broke, that will be the trick.
@ NazoX9 - We don't have any numbers on that. Bloke has been testing it on an older laptop with good performance, so alone it shouldn't be to bad.

I would like to see it tested out with the major mods out there though.
MCA, Darknut's Greater Dwemer Ruins, GCD, NOM, Balmora Expansion, and any other script intensive or FPS intensive mods.

But, I have to say that "That Bloke" has really put a lot into the scripts. Many things that I wouldn't think about has already been taken into account by him. I don't normally partner up with anybody and was kind of nervous about it. But I'm glad we're doing this. So, I guess I would say that I know that they will be as efficient as they can be. I'm also sure there will be issues to deal with. But we are both committed to making this happen.
You guys might want to make it clear that this mod will only be useful for those who mostly play in 3rd-person mode, at least until you find a way to implement NPC / companion support since there's not much to see in the way of slinged / sheathed items on the PC from 1st-person mode. :whistling:
No necessarily true. I play primarily in 1st person but like to know the weapon "goes" somewhere when you put it away. Instead of just disappearing.
I think the guards will be the test bed for seeing what's possible with effecting all npc's.
For me, all npc's with sheathing would be the Brass Ring. Beyond icing on the cake, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
User avatar
Nina Mccormick
 
Posts: 3507
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:38 pm

Post » Tue May 17, 2011 8:33 am

-snip- ... Not necessarily true. I play primarily in 1st person but like to know the weapon "goes" somewhere when you put it away. Instead of just disappearing.

Well, I've always imagined that the weapons do go somewhere on my character - I can suspend my disbelief, and that's made easier when the play mode does not provide any visual representation. I'd much rather retain my framerate and faster load times than add something this extensive, script-wise and asset-wise, when I won't actually be seeing the results graphically for the majority of the time (the inventory paper doll aside). I guess if a player has a tendency to often not interact with the interface for a while, thus auto-switching into 3rd-person vanity mode, that could be enough for them to want to remedy not seeing their weapons properly represented visually.

Giving potential users a heads-up about which mode will provide the best visual benefit, considering the mod's main intent and possible impact to performance, would most certainly be welcomed. It couldn't hurt. ;)
User avatar
Dan Endacott
 
Posts: 3419
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:12 am

Post » Tue May 17, 2011 7:32 am

How about requiring the duel item to be completely repaired before allowing it to be split back into separate items? Should be possible to do this conditionally thru full repair merchant dialogue - and by using an invisible merchant NPC if you want to allow it 'in the field'. That would avoid having to check for and remove repair items, and mitigate the item health balance issues. :lightbulb:


Sorry, no, not while I'm doing the scripting. NPCs in MW are a notorious CPU hog Having just one invisible NPC following the player around would use up more memory and cpu cycles than all of the scripts and global variables I'm using put together. On top of that, on my MW install at least, I traced a whole bunch of CTDs when loading from save games to mods that use invisible NPCs.

OK, the FPS hit. Well, early on I decided that one golden rule was to not attach a script to any of the game's stock items, that's a savegame compatibility nightmare. Also, it's the fact that we don't alter a single item that comes with the stock game that makes it safe to convert to a master file. Given that self-imposed limitation I've done the best I can to keep the CPU usage of the scripts to an absolute minimum.

The design is as tight as I can make it. There's four (five once dual wielding is in) main global scripts running all the time tracking the information I need:
  • Armor
  • Weapon Sheaths
  • Quivers
  • Shields
  • Dual Wielding

These globals are small(ish), c. 350 lines from Begin to End, about 8K characters each (without comments, I still need to comment them thoroughly). If the other scripts need the same information, they store it in a global there's little duplication of effort. Then, they fire run once scripts when an event occurs that they need to do something. There are times I have to check something regularly, and in this case I set a frame counter to only fire the script every 10 or so frames, which keeps the load down, while trying to keep everything happening fast enough that it's roughly in sync with MW's animations.

One limitation of MW is you can only store information as a number. Early on I did a spreadsheet of every single weapon, shield, pauldron, glove, bracer and glove in Morrowind, Tribunal and Bloodmoon and assigned them two IDs, a unique ID and a mesh ID (as many items share the same mesh). That initial effort has proven extremely useful. Let's say I want to know what shoulder sheath I should be equipping. Well instead of doing all sorts of funky string comparisons I just take the the two digit right clavicle ID set by the armor script and multiply it by 1000, then add the three digit weapon mesh ID. Now I have the sheath ID. Then I just use that number to fire the appropriate script(s) that uses that ID to add and equip the correct sheath.
User avatar
Nims
 
Posts: 3352
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:29 pm

Post » Tue May 17, 2011 1:08 am

Are you asking to have the last prior weapon equip if your current weapon breaks? Automatically? Or pull out your shield? It sounds like it might (and I stress might) , be possible. I know that the scripts already keep track of that type of info I believe. So I'd say it's possible to do it, but detecting that the weapon broke, that will be the trick.




I{m asking if may be done so if you are out of resourses you can wield your shield as a weapon to bash down your enemies. I know that would involve a script to swich objects betwen the shield (armor) and the shield (weapon blunt).

Also would your custom attached gauntlets be compatible with hand 2 hand damage wich gives you the chance to damage instead of fatigue while wearing armor gauntlets.
User avatar
lauren cleaves
 
Posts: 3307
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:35 am

Post » Tue May 17, 2011 11:46 am

I{m asking if may be done so if you are out of resourses you can wield your shield as a weapon to bash down your enemies. I know that would involve a script to swich objects betwen the shield (armor) and the shield (weapon blunt).

I see the idea you're proposing, your blade breaks and you switch your shield to your weapon hand and start bashing away as a last resort. Well, it could be done easily enough in the scripts... From a hammer cost perspective, I think it should be free to make the switch, as if you had a hammer you'd just go and repair your weapon, but I'd set the script to charge you two hammers to switch it back to a shield. :) Also, I would make the stats as a weapon significantly less useful than having it as a shield. I'll leave it up to Sandman101 if he has the time/resources or inclination to include this.

We could set some kind of flag that a weapon has broken, as if the player went from a non-ranged weapon to fists outside of MenuMode I'g guess the most likely scenario would be a weapon breaking.

Also would your custom attached gauntlets be compatible with hand 2 hand damage wich gives you the chance to damage instead of fatigue while wearing armor gauntlets.

The way hand-to-hand works is hard wired in the engine. It would be messy having gauntlets as weapons because they then couldn't be armour. IMO this is a request for the Morrowind Code Patch.
User avatar
Jonathan Windmon
 
Posts: 3410
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:23 pm

Post » Tue May 17, 2011 3:30 am

Sorry, no, not while I'm doing the scripting. NPCs in MW are a notorious CPU hog Having just one invisible NPC following the player around would use up more memory and cpu cycles than all of the scripts and global variables I'm using put together. On top of that, on my MW install at least, I traced a whole bunch of CTDs when loading from save games to mods that use invisible NPCs.
-clip-

The invisible NPC was just a suggestion to accommodate splitting items 'in the field'. The idea should otherwise still work but would be limited to existing repair merchants. Or if there's some other way to know that the combined item has been fully repaired before splitting into it's separate parts? Since the existing merchant repair mechanism always repairs items back to full, I figured that would be the best place to inject a scripted conditional to offer splitting and avoid any item health balance issues.
User avatar
Jason Rice
 
Posts: 3445
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:42 pm

Post » Tue May 17, 2011 3:22 pm

The invisible NPC was just a suggestion to accommodate splitting items 'in the field'. The idea should otherwise still work but would be limited to existing repair merchants. Or if there's some other way to know that the combined item has been fully repaired before splitting into it's separate parts? Since the existing merchant repair mechanism always repairs items back to full, I figured that would be the best place to inject a scripted conditional to offer splitting and avoid any item health balance issues.


Sure, sorry I didn't mean to sound confrontational. It's a good idea, and is far less arbitrary than just removing hammers from inventory. But I have had a lot of CTDs caused by mods that use NPCs in weird ways, so I have a personal dislike of this method. Of course, in any normal scripting environment I could query and set variables on any object in the player, I really should be able to check if an item is at full health in a single line of code. It could also be possible using MWSE, but that is something I am also eager to avoid for the core mod as I really want to aim for maximum performance and compatibility.

I'm a big fan of simplicity; given the low % contribution of gauntlets and pauldrons to the player's AR I just took an easy route out. :)
User avatar
Cagla Cali
 
Posts: 3431
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:36 am

Next

Return to III - Morrowind

cron