The problem i have with this argument is that you make it sound like adding SC would automatically make every destruction spell in the game useless.

Alvor has put years of his life in becoming the best blacksmith he can be, and all i have to do is make a fine steel sword at lvl 1 and i already have something better than he has ever made.

And i think SC Could be done with it's own skill. Maybe the first perk could reduce the cost of all spells crafted by ~20% like the other crafting spells, so NPC sold spells would be superior at first, and if you want them they're there, adding SC isn't gonna change them from what they are now. But, if i'm dead set on being a purely DOT mage, i could put my first few perks into the SC tree and try to become more efficient with their use.

I would really like SC to be like alchemy a little, where store bought spells are superior to crafted ones at first, but crafted spells eventually become stronger if you put the time and effort into it.

I don't mean to sound condescending if i do.



isn't that exactly what enchanting is? you don't make your own enchantments, you tweak existing ones. why si that fine but not sc?

If spell making was implemented it would lead to this..

>Make most powerful spell imaginable for Destruction.
>Get gear to reduce Magicka cost to 0.
>Spam it for rest of game because every other spell is now useless.

There would be no reason not to push magnitude to the upper limit every time. You trashed the majority of your own post when you said balance doesn't matter and then talk about how spell making could be balanced. You contradict yourself in the same paragraph.

or they could make -spell cost enchantments like Armour, where you could never have more than 80%

I didn't read the entire thread.. I didn't need to.

You NEED spell making if enemies level with you after a certain point because the set spells at the beginning will not be effective later on. Spell making lets you fix this.

One idea I had... only let you make your own spells once you hit level 100 in that type of magic. Let that be your reward.

That prevents people... like me... from making game breaking spells early on... like charm or haggle 100%/2seconds in Oblivion.


And I have a VERY simple solution to fixing this...


and make destruction a good skill.

Instead of robes and enchantments decreasing the COST of spells, they should increase their EFFECTS(damage for instance). Of course regardless of that destruction spells need to be much cheaper. I'm still amazed that casting a cloak spell on yourself cost a lot more than summoning an atronach of the same element which comes with a constant cloak spell :facepalm: .

I don't think smithing is perfect, either. I still don't think you should be able to craft Daedric, for starters.

That's not a bad idea. My main problem (aside from the vast superiority of created spells) was that the only barrier to doing so in the previous games was money, and it's pretty easy to come by. Making it a skill and requiring focus on it would go a long way to helping it work. The only thing - how would you raise a spellmaking skill?

The only thing I can think of is casting your created spell splits the XP between Spellmaking and the school of your base spell, like Destruction.

As long we can delete the spells.

I agree, i think spell crafting should require something besides money(it should only require money if the altar does not belong to you imo) maybe it could require different reagents depending on the spell you want and a soul gem, or whole new materials that come with a dlc.

On how it would level, I agree, it should split the exp, i would like there to be repeatable quests that require you to make spells for a client or to be cast on some kind of special object. That way there is always the incentive to make new spells for these quests.

I'm playing as a mage and this is the first thought I've had of spellcrafting, so my vote is no. I would like to see more variety in spells, at least one new cast type (cone) and a few tweaks to existing spells (and enchanting, and alchemy)... But as far as spell making goes, I really don't miss it.

I don't think there is a good reason not to bring back spell-making in some form or another. It made for interesting strategies and unique play-styles. I do understand the complaints concerning balance - despite this being a role playing game (keep in mind that I associate myself with the "This is an RPG" crowd) it can be hard to restrain yourself from making things boring. So I support some sort of limitations that are a little more sophisticated than adding ridiculously high magicka cast costs (although such a thing might work in Skyrim with enchanting). I'd also like to echo another poster in his/her lamenting at the loss of all our undead minions, as I primarily play a necromancer. I just can't imagine why some of these features were removed, especially in the case of summons. You can respond with the party line of "balance", but even in Oblivion is was more about preference than it was about stats. Oh well, here's hoping that an expansion will return some of those old treasures we mages mourn over.

I used to make my own spells, but then I took an arrow to the knee.

Or you just bring SC back. All the new spell system is better animations with over half the spells cut out.

Yes. Just yes

Must be.

since you learn from tomes, I'd make it books. Have a desk with a bookshelf behind it as the activator, and you add books to the library for your research. So if your spell was a mix of fire and armor for a fire shield spell you might add a tome of spell bolt and oakflesh. They would be consumable either directly or just thematically.

I agree with you totally OP.

I think that people always complain that magic is underpowered, because the spells don't scale at all; at max level most spells are useless against enemies (speaking specifically about destruction). With spellmaking, players can make their own spells that are powerful enough to still have fun. Will there be crazy over-powered spells that 1-shot like half a city? yeah, but that's the players choice and it's all in good fun so why should it not be allowed?

Agreed, OP. Taking out spellmaking was hands down the stupidest move Bethesda has EVER made in the Elder Scrolls series. And yet, they ADDED smithing. WTH?! Do they hate mages or something all of a sudden?

People complained in previous games about spellmaking being OP. Well guess what? Now people are complaining about Smithing being OP. So, why not add back in the supposedly "broken" spellmaking? Why should martial characters now have all the cool character customization options the mages once had but have no longer?

But yeah OP, I think the spellmaking system you outlined would make a lot of sense for Skyrim, and be balanced too. A spellmaking skill would be so cool, actually I always thought in previous games that spellmaking should have been its own skill in the first place. Hope it's moddable....

i want all the old spells back and if they throw in SC
then that would be a huge plus
but i would rather have all the old spells

You obviously did not understand my post.
What you describe is the same with stacking enchantments/improvements and doing 1000 damage with an 1-handed sword. Either you do it, or you don't. If you do, don't go complaining how it's broken.
I mentioned that in this aspect balance does not matter. But if people really care about that balance it can still be achieved. And balance from a player-environment perspective is a different thing. An example of this kind of balance is this: Starting the game - being able to make anything you want without making an effort - this kind balance is needed and there are millions of ways to achieve it. (Also with what i describe, what you say is not possible.)


Yea i thought the same before i had played the game enough to realise how limited and superficial my options were. At any case the greatest variety of spells possible would come from spell making itself, and with spell making having it's own perk tree for example, or implemented well in general i don't understand why you would not want it.

I think people who are saying "Magic is fine, balanced and whatever in skyrim" need to take a second look.

Right now on expert and above the enemy mages, who have scaled spells unlike us, ruin a pure warrior build.

If the spells in skyrim scaled for the PLAYER, it would be balanced and fun. Right now its just monotonous.

I use two spells on my archmage, the armor spell, which I hardly need and Inferno. There all I need.

Why they allowed 100% reduction in mana cost Ill never understand. I guess the same way they added the ability to stack all the
alchemy and enchanting and make REDICILOUS melee builds.

Theres to much wrong with the game right now for bethesda to even think about making a spell creation kit. I mean there
creation kit isnt even out, how many months for that to come out??

I liked spell creation, never did make that super uber kill everything spell, just made effects I wanted.

I want my magic to do everything, I dont want to have to drink potions. Alchemy is a freaking ROGUE skill anyway, why is my mage
forced to drink potions?!?! I should be able to walk on water, waterbreath, go invisible etc etc etc. And as my power increases I should
be able to make spells that have say the same armor as Ebony skin BUT last longer because Im so skilled. Not this 90 second BULL, which I have to
recast so often I usually dont because B O R I N G.

Magic is fun for awhile, I enjoyed my mage quit a bit until I got my enchanting to 100, and not by grinding. I got it upto 100 by disenchanting,
repowering the 5 staffs I carried around (Why cant we make staffs and wands?!?). Once I did that I made items to reduce cost for
destruction and restoration, the two schools I used the most.

What did I find? That I had 100% reduction for both. Not only that but I had something like 60% spell resist, plus frost and fire resist in the low
40s. I could stand in front of either type of dragon and laugh.

I dunno, long winded post here, but the inclusion of spell creation would have been the equal to freaking enchanting/smithing/alchemy for warriors.

It is actually kind of funny, a spell making system is a work reducing system for the developer. Yeah there is a big initial outlay of work but it saves work in the long run if you want a complete and deep spell list. Lets say you have to carry thousands of items across a field, one guy picks up an item and goes back and forth the field thousands of times carrying those items across one by one, another guy gets some wood and some wheels makes a cart/wheelbarrow whatever and now carries the items in batches and in the long run gets done a lot sooner and with less effort. That is kind of like what spell creation is, you only have to make the cart and enough spells to get the effects to the players the players will then do the rest of the work for you. I guess they went with option 3 they saw the pile of thousands of spells got tired after 100 of them distracted the boss with something shiny and left the rest of the spells out of the game.

Of course I want Spell Making back. Most places I hang out on the Internet, the vast majority of people want it back, as these poll results indicate. Even if the current magic system had more variety and didn't suffer from some problematic balance issues, I'd still want it back.

+1 for this

Just a note: Bethesda confirmed on their blog that the Creation Kit will be released in early January.

I saw that, can't wait. I am wondering if we will see all our old spell effects back as well as spell making.

I really like this idea, so that the player would be limited by what spell tomes they have access to and at the same time give a use for spells tomes i already own. If they did use spell tomes as a way to make spells they should up their value by quite a bit. And it would be cool to have the effects scale with the power of the tome you were using. As in a fire spell based off of firebolt would have a lower maximum damage than one based off of incinerate. And all the spells Bethesda wants to be super unique wouldn't be able to be replicated.