Seriously, because I don't get it.

I've been playing FS since Android day one, so don't tell me that it's a slap in the face of all those people who started playing early. I've played plenty long enough. And I just don't get the explorer cap venom.

If anything, the problem is that there's no real end game in FS, other than the endless collection quest for 100% loot grabs. That's the issue. If you've got 50 people in the vault and 100 people out exploring, what does that really tell you? That you don't have enough people exploring, or that you have too many people INSIDE the vault who don't have enough to do?

Personally, rather than expanding the automated part of the game, I'd rather that the INTERACTIVE part of the game expand in content.

So enlighten me. Please. Because right now, it seems to me that the issue that so many people have is that they built vaults with massive exploration teams in mind, and now they can't have massive exploration teams. Is that all there really is to this full scale game design freakout?

Its like anytime you put a limit on "their" game. They get upset because they can't play how they want to play... because they think since they may or may not have sunk time and money into it that its "their" game.

that and because people can no longer get ungodly amounts of caps and outfits and weapons that quickly.

Personally, I don't see the problem. It you want an automated game, play a RTS or a tower defense game.

and yeah hopefully they'll expand on what they have.

After reading the various threads..... seems to me that yeah sure its an automation thing... people want to barely tap anything and rather have people in the wasteland, why so they can tap less and run on less resources.

another point was the fact that they no longer bring back legendary items from the wasteland and now..... to collect everything..... they need to pay to get lunchboxes to get everything..... a silly point because you still get lunchboxes in game but people are impatient and rather pay to unlock everything.

the final point I see is that there are waiting lines of vault dwellers because people don't have enough storage to collect everything.... so seems to me the 50+ dweller people use this as a way to amass caps by selling everything they can until they hit the cap point.... by doing this it speeds up how quickly they can build their vault.

My opinion, 25 dweller exploration is fine enough. I honestly don't have time to sit here and wait for 25 dwellers to go out and return anyways and I usually have less than 10 out anyways.

You've got it all wrong. What more, except for exploring, is there to do? I've got nearly 200 fully-trained Dwellers. Without most of them being able to explore, what am I (and all those in the same situation) to do? Leave them idle in the Vault? Kill them off? It just seems I've wasted a lot of time building up something that I can no longer use for anything.

If only the developpers found some other occupation for the now many jobless Dwellers a lot of us have. Any kind of substitution, instead of leaving most of the Dwellers a waste of ressources, would be great!


Oh, and about the Legendaries: I don't have a problem personally with them, but I understand some players complain that Lunchboxes (which are hard to get without paying) have extremely low drop-rates. I agree, seeing as Legendary items are extremely rare (as they should), but I am willing to wait. I understand that this is a game you have to play for a long time.

I'm totally cool with the cap, too. It actually seems to help balance the game a bit. This is the thing I don't get, I think:

There's no reason whatsoever to buy lunchboxes, even in Survival Mode. None. Great - so you bought 100 lunchboxes and you've got that Vengeance and you feel like a big man now. Okay. Whatever works for you, man.

So now, what do you want to do with it? Your options are still limited to two: interactive (use it to defend your vault) or automated (use it in wasteland exploration). You certainly don't need Legendary gear to defend a vault.. two days in the Wasteland will still bring back plenty of rare loot that will do that job very, very nicely. Except in the very earliest game stages, I haven't found much vault defense advantage at all in Legendary gear over normal or rare level gear.

So, wasteland exploration, the automated part? You're buying lunchboxes to get cool guns so that you can sit and watch an animation of a guy running, and a text crawl letting you know every so often that he just killed something - a game transaction that you, as the player, had absolutely zero to do with? So that you can hoover up more caps and gear to.. do what again? Not play the game?

And people are pissed because they can't do this 150 times simultaneously?

I suspect that it's not even that, but rather about the ability to look at that cute cartoon Vengeance graphic in the stats section and being able to say, yeah, I done gots me a Vengeance. Like it means absolutely anything at all outside of the context of the game interactions.

Bethesda should just let them skip the middle man and buy the graphic image for $4.99, and call it a day. There you go: no muss, no fuss.

Delete Vault. Create Vault. Start Over. Just like any other freakin' video game on the planet.

I mean, really. Since when has "find the meaning of life" been a realistic goal in any game? Even Civilization shuts its default doors at 500 turns, for god's sake. You play it out to equilibrium, then either start over or quit.

I completely agree that wasteland exploration should not be the end game to Fallout Shelter, because watching animated running royally bites as an end game. So put the complaints where they belong: not that exploration mode has been scaled back, but that once you unlock all the rooms, there really aren't any further goals to achieve. Rally around more good content, not more mediocre content.

Personally, I see the explorer cap as a necessary first step towards perhaps developing a better long game scenario. We'll see if Bethesda does that. If they do, awesome. If they don't, I'll ultimately get bored and move on. Video games tend to be like that, which is why most of us aren't still playing Zork II on a regular basis.

You know the game has passed it's peak when the trolls crawl out from under the bridges. Validation refused. Move on.

The challenge for me was explore with as many units as possible and attempt to support them with the fewest in the vault.

It was a balancing equation of getting enough stimpack production to support the explorers that were cycling in an out.

I constantly needed to expand facilities to support the people training and then as well to generate supplies for the increasing amount of people exploring. It was like tuning an engine constantly to keep the loot train coming in.

When the cap hit, the engine died. There was a static number of explorers you could have which means a static number of stimpacks you really need to generate to support them. Which means a static number of people to support their existence and a static number of power to generate to support the rooms they inhabit.

The balancing game was effectively over and there was no reason to make anymore dwellers since you had likely hit the max amount of explorers already, and had the support staff necessary plus a bunch.

So that's why.

The balancing game ended. It was a min-max puzzle. And it has yet to be replaced by any kind of intriguing in vault puzzle to solve.

OK. If Bethesda provided us with other alternative late game objectives and took away the current main late game objective (exploration), I would not complain at all. The 100+ fully trained explorers who were on the forced coffee break will happily find and take new job.


But Bethesda took away the only toy I was playing with, and no replacement toy was given back, and left us empty handed, without any explanation.


Wit current explorer cap of 25, 100-110 become practical population limit. It will shorten effective longevity of this game by half.

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Troll? Really? Because I'm questioning the incessant complaining about what amounts to a very silly design issue?

Nonsense. My largest vault has 189 dwellers, 18 explorers (peak: 23), and no one in Coffee Break. And that's not even in Survival Mode.

As I've said several times here, I entirely agree that the real issue is a lack of substantive long term goals to play towards. So is that the only problem here, that Fallout Shelter loses its fun factor after all the room types have been unlocked?

I get your point and I agree on implementing other interactive stuff but right now as it is, once you maxed a vault you want to max your dwellers. Once that is done the only thing remaining is collecting rare items or legendary to pimp your vault regardless of the utility. After all the objective of the game is basically managing a vault so yeah I agree that the cap limits the item collector objective.

My vault is at 200 dwellers. There are only 5 more that need their stats raised to all 10s, and there are 7 that are not at level 50. A quality of life issue, though not a game breaker is when one of the 5 remaining finally gets all 10... I will send them out to the Wasteland because that is the fastest way to get them to level 50. Pre-Cap, I would send them out immediately. Now, I have to wait for one to come in and store that dweller in a storage room so they are not wandering around, then send out the freshly capped SPECIAL dweller. Like I said, that issue is not a game breaker... just a pain in the rear.

This is a game, and people are playing it for enjoyment. If your enjoyment is having less than 25 dwellers out in the wasteland, fine, but don't criticize people who enjoyed playing the game with more than 25 dwellers exploring. I've been playing on the iPhone pretty much since launch, and each update has hindered my enjoyment of the game... of how I personally enjoyed playing.

Many people spoke of the 'experimental vaults' that they were trying (cleaver ways to tweak the vault but still keep it going) because that is in fact what the vaults were, social experiments... Deathclaws ruined most of them... at that point people flooded the Wasteland to get better gear to protect their vaults from DC attacks... now those are less frequent. But we can't send as many people out.

The part that really makes me angry is that all the updates are pushing people to spend money on Lunchboxes. I know... you don't have to. And I haven't and won't.

Omg man, i totally understand you. I shate the same opinion as you. People are overreacting, and treating it like the end of the world after a nuclear blast. I have never bought any Lunchbox, and im doing just fine and dandy. Im exploring peacefully every day, completing my items collection day by day, and getting tons of caps from it.


People just need to chill and play the game day by day.

As with the NGD crippling, the explorer limit is a ploy to sell lunchboxes. The timing is far too convenient.


http://imgur.com/2qEEPIj


My 25 explorers already brought back all the ghost, skeleton, Pilgrim and Santa costumes I could ever want.

I think the issue here is not that some prefer to send more than 25 dwellers out to the wasteland, but the fact that there's doomsaying attached to it being restricted. I am unsure of the intent of those who promote that style of commentary, but it sounds like an exaggeration to me.

The issues I see are that (1) the v1.2/v1.21 update removed gameplay rather than expanding it; (2) that this removal did not ( A ) fix a game-breaking issue, ( B ) enhance gameplay, or ( C ) result in any benefit, but rather did the opposite of all three; that (3) these changes—both the cap on explorers and, more importantly, the removal of the opportunity for players to obtain a Legendary item at the NGD—were neither ( A ) listed in the update notes nor ( B ) explained in any way, shape or form; and, finally, (4) that the update notes, nonetheless, said, "Continued general maintenance to the Vault simulation. Because when you speak, Vault-Tec listens!" while our inquiries and discussions have all gone unanswered.

TL;DR

The explorer limit itself is no longer the core issue. Rather, there are definitely reasonable concerns regarding the (1) removal of gameplay, (2) lack of justification thereof, (3) lack of notice thereof, and (4) lack of response to our voiced concerns.


@Gstaff : We are still here, and await an answer. Thank you.

Room type unlock does not matter. What matter is unempolyment rate of my vault. My vault has near 200 dwellers. But the it needs only 80 production workers to maintain vault operation to produce enough resources and caps.


So what should the rest of 120 dwellers do something productive? Expanding production of resources which are already over-produced is not productive job. Currenly only such jobs left are exploration. But Beghesda put cap of 25 on it. Rest 90 dwellers have nothing to do and on eternal coffee break.


Please provide some productive jobs to our unemployed dwellers, then I will not complain.

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Idk I think it has something to do with the more dwellers are exploring the better chance players have of finding cool stuff. I mean how else are we supposed to get it? Paying for lunch boxes which have awesome chances of obtaining caps??

The only complaint I have about it is that it's ruined my system I had set up. Whenever I bring in a wastelander or a kid grows up, they are immediately shoved into training rooms and don't come out until they have all 10 stats (I know it's not really necessary but I don't care, I do it anyway). Once they come out of training they are handed a good weapon and sent out to the wastes to level and gather more loot. Now with the cap I can't send out everyone that needs to go at once. I had 18 people come out of training yesterday but I already had 25 explorers out so the new graduates can't leave the vault. It's messing with my system, but I can deal. It'll just take longer to get everyone leveled.