I know it does, but the formulas must be different, mustn't they? I would like to know how would my day-to-day fatigue/encumbrance experience change if I switch to this mod.

By the way, does it train endurance and strength when low on fatigue/encumbered, too?

Here is the excerpt from the Mod page on TesNexus, I will try to explain more beneath:

=================================================================================================================================

Solution 2: Endurance has no effect at all on Fatigue return, and nor does Encumbrance influence the Fatigue Return Rate (fRR)!
*****************************************************************************************************************************
default value for fFatigueReturnMult is 0.14 now, thus for example
- 45 Endurance will give you 0.14 * 45 = 6.3 fatigue points back per second.
- 75 Endurance should give you 0.14 * 75 = 10.5 fatgiue points back per second (another mind dazzling example? pm me!)

But this is only unencumbered! ==> Every additional pound carried around does drain the valuable Fatigue points you regain per second!

How encumbrance system works is complex.

EGM provides 4 different conditions, with each affecting your character uniquely, chose wisely about how much your character should carry!

Shinji: (for carrying low weight!)
- There are 4 different shinji stages you are able to achieve, each at a certain level minumum your character has to achieve ( shinji Advanced starts at lvl10!)
- each stage imposes better bonuses and less loss on the fatigue return rate from encumbrance
--> shinji factor
the shinji factor (athletics/shinjidivisor) defers encumbrance effects, effectively increasing the threshold, where you fall back to normal condition
--> ability bonuses
the ability bonuses are calculated on this formula: (1 - (CurrentEncumbrance / shinjthreshold)) * (Willpower / 10) + Shinji_Stage_Bonus
allowing your character to improve up to a maximum amount on bonus abilities if he/she drops load and reaches the shinji stage minimum level conditions

in short: the better and lighter you get, the more is the advantage for light armor class characters

normal:
- as it says the normal encumbrance condition between shinji and slight encumbrance thresholds ( both thresholds can be set in egm_config.ini)

slight encumbrance:
- affects your fatigue return rate negatively, because your character starts to suffer from weight, and blur effects start
- the shinji factor defers any encumbrance penalty to the fatigue return rate up to this condition!
(maximum is twice the shinjthreshold from the egm_config.ini, default is 0.125 = 12,5% of total encumbrance)
- Bonuses from Ability Based Fatigue do only count half, but advance to full effect depending on your improving shinji factor
- faster fatigue return ration configurable up to this condition, is going to be applied when character is in stealth mode, unarmed, and not moving.

overencumbered
- water walking ability is lost at overencumbered condition!
- 4 overencumbered stages, from heavy to insane! Each stage obliges your character with more penalties and set a fat minus on your fatigue return rate.
- fatigue return rate from ( fFatigueReturnMult * Endurance ) increases in its negative value, and becomes a penalty on the overall fatigue return rate.
=> Every additional pound reduces the complete fatigue return rate, reducing the other fatigue return sources like
- Ability Based Fatigue Bonuses
- and the fFatigueReturnBase.

The encumbrance based fatigue loss per lbs is degressive, meaning even at low weight there is already a noticeable penalty,
while at high encumbrance just one additional pound wont increase the existing penalty essentially.

=================================================================================================================================



In general, Encumbrance isnt calculated on absolut basis, but relative.
==> a high encumbrance ratio does always drain your fatigue return rate from fFRM (fFatigueReturnMult * Endurance) sustainably, overencumbrance zeros it, and turns it negative!

But EGM imposes some more tweaks on the player:

- the drain isnt linear, but decreasing the more load you have ( this puts some difficulty on gaining & keeping shinji state)
- all four conditions (shinji, normal, slight encumbrance, overencumbrance) differ in their progress of decreasing the fatigue return from fFRM, the first is the most convenient

- EGM provides a shinji factor, which is not the same as shinji condition, but does take influence on this mechanics as well:

1. it defers the penalty from encumbrance, thus increasing the shinji threshold

What is the ShinjiThreshold?
the shinjithreshold is the encumbrance ratio threshold allowing your character to enter shinji condition and gain bonuses
- it can be configured as ShinjiCalcBase in the egm_config.ini, default is 0.10
- isnt static, ShinjiCalcBase increases up to 200% depending on players athletics skill and endurance attribute (the influence of the latter is 25%, the first 75%)

2. it defers the penalty on the positive Ability Based Fatigue Return Rates (Bonuses), the negative ABFRR will always count fully (Ability Based effects appear in the Active Effects Tab / Inventory)
-- but only up to slight encumbrance conditions (here the default is 50%, with the shinjifactor the player is able to gain the full 100% of postive Ability Based Fatigue Bonuses)
-- in overencumbered condition the fatigue return from postive Ability Based Fatigue is always halved

now you ask, what is the shinjifactor? acutally from 1.94 there are 2:
shinjifactor based on athletics = players athletics skill / shinjidivisor ---> taking influence on all physics based mechanics
shinjifactor based on alteration = players alteration skill / shinjidivisor --> taking influence on all magic based mechanics, namely the Ability Based Fatigue
(I chose the alteration skill because, according www.uesp.net: "Alteration is the magic of altering the physical world." and the Ability Based Fatigue loss should be due encumbrance here, not due a lack of magic skills determined by willpower)
(the shinjidivisor is per default 1000 in the egm_config, setting this higer is going to ease the positive effects dependent on shinjifactor )

ok, this how encumbrance / fatigue works with EGM explaind in detail. (some of the tweaks are introduced in 1.94)

thx for the comment!

PS:
I forgot to explain two more features.

The shinji stages!
shinji condition delivers 4 stages, each providing your character better bonuses, he/she is likely to need.
but the shinji stages have two constraints.
1. the players level, 1.shinji stage is always applying, the second stage after reacing level 10, the third after reachin level 20, the last after level 35.
2. if the level requirements from 1. are met, the encumbrance ratio determines the amount of the bonus applied to your char, and therefore the second contraint to reach higher shinji conditions, as they are only applied if you reached a certain bonus threshold, alleviating you further.
these bonuses are applied according to another shinjifactor correlatation, taking the attribute willpower into account. Here is the formula:
bonus = shinji encumbrance ratio * (Player.GetAV Willpower * 0.1) + sshinjiadd

the shinji encumbrance ratio is your current encumbrance realtive to the shinji threshold.

the over-encumbrance system!
EGM provides ..guess!..yes, 4 overencumbered conditions, of course each making your character weaker, at the highest encumbrance condition you'll even fear the coast crabs!
Every time you reach the encumbrance limit, it is raised by 50 points according to the vanilla encumbrance mechanics (Strength * 5 = encumbrance limit)
By default, EGM takes the according additional strength from your actual characters value (can be disabled in the egm_config.ini), therefore its possible you'll reach a final encumbrance limit with no further raises, simply when the characters actual strength value wont allow it anymore.
Overencumbrance provides two penalty systems:
the first one will turn the Fatigue Return Rate from fFRM slowly into negative values.
Second, it casts penalty spells on your character draining both health and fatigue.

and last but not least! the slight encumbrance condition.
the threshold for this condition is determind by fSlightCalcBase (configurable in the egm_config.ini),
but its also dynamically determined, as it increases according only to your characters endurance attribute!

Ok, if something proves wrong, or i'll notice to have forgotten anything, im going to update.
sign out!

Downloading now. I have tried all the hunger, thirst and fatigue mods I can find, but haven't found a solution that feels right in my game. I will report back once I get a feel for this mod. BTW, I noticed you say REal Sleep is compatible. Does that apply to the dynamic timescale feature as well?

NO! dynamic timescale feature is not compatible. I tried to contact theNiceOne, he is the author, but it seems he is short on time, making it difficult to communicate.
Real Sleep is incompatible in two features:
the tfirst one is the algorithm for modifying the players skills and attributes, Real Sleep Extended uses a simplified one, but EGM algortihm is able to handle this. ( Real Sleep Extended turns attribute and skill values negative, which isnt considered to be proper but comfortable! the game most likely wont CTD, though it makes no sense to have certain values going negative! the construction set wiki pages explicitly warns turnin those values negative with modav2 from obse, Real sleep extended uses modav, which is the vanilla version of the command)

the second is the automatic timescale feature.
this one is not explicitly supported by EGM, simply because I am not aware of this feature, and it is not likely theNiceOne will provide help for compatibility, unless Santa Clause personally asks him for.

Hey I havn't installed yet, waiting on the responce about vamps. I did read through the readme though just to make sure, but no mention of vampirism. If it isn't compatible now, will you be planning to add in vamp features in the future? And i know I could disable the food feature in the ini, but that would disable it completely, whereas i'm thinking if it would detect you as a vamp, make it so that you can "only" drink blood, then add in the bonus and negative effects.

Here is the section from egm_config.ini:

; *****************************************************************************
; Food/Thirst
; *****************************************************************************


set egmfood.bVampireslikeFood to 0 ; 0

PS:
Sorry the check reversed the values.
Set to 1 for disabling, and 0 for enabling,

Im going to correct this in the next release for proper use 1 enabled and 0 disabled!

; By default, vampires do not suffer normal hunger, or thirst, they are using
; the Oblivion blood mechanic instead. 0 disables this feature for vampires.

Sorry, I did intend to answer you again, but as you've noticed, I'm short on time now.

I thought we agreed that this was not true??? I still haven't noticed or been told of any problem of the theoretical possibility of modding attributes (temporarily) to negative. As for whether it makes sense, that's a subjective opinion - if the player has set in RSE's ini to reduce the attributes by a given number, then I think it makes good sense to do so, even if he has other temporary effects that reduce the same attributes. From my testing, the game just seems to treat the attribute as zero.

But as I wrote in the PM, I have so far not been made aware of any reason to fear CTD by how RSE is handling the attributes, but will of course change the code if there is any reason to believe it may do so.

On the contrary, I generally try to do my best to make it compatible with other mods. I already plan to update the auto timescale feature to be compatible with the sub-stage in The Ayleid Steps where the timescale must stay constant, and would generally be happy to make it compatible with other mods too.

The fact that I'm not interested in changing the attribute reduction code in RSE is that I don't believe there is any incompatibility in the way I'm doing it, neither with EGM or any other mod that may reduce the attributes.

Ohh wow, I guess we had the same idea Thanks for the info, I'll install and let you know how it goes. Also I guess i should ask then, do you write in the og vampire mechs into your code or leave it out and just tap into it when needed? I ask that to ask if its compatible with mods that modify vampirism? I use an older mod Aundae in cyrodil, that modifiys vampire hunger (not sure the extent to which it does though). But i guess i'll know when I install.

Thank you very much for updating!
I noticed the automatic timescale factor disturbing somehow the EGM mechanics, but as I provide a timescale factor as well, it should be possible to synchronize them easily, if RSE applies this feature.
EGM probably would deactive any explicit timescale settings, and synchronize it with RSE. Im glad if this would work out.
Better would be for EGM to use the timescale as global variable, and RSE updating this value if automatic timescale is enabled. this would be the most comfortable way.
please update on this! thx.

I am also a loyal RSE addict, probably looking for best compatibility.

do you write in the og vampire mechs into your code ?? <--- WHAT?!

EGM always quits the food routine when bVampireslikeFood is set to 0 (as of version 1.94...) in case the PC is a vampire.

Hey Marshmallow, i just have a concern. It used to be I was having to eat daily, but now i am not having to eat for days. It's been about 1-1 1/2 ingame weeks and i havent heard the stomach grumbling or anything. My strength is 60something. Is that why?

pls open the console,
then type "set egmV.bdebug to 1" enter
then tdt enter

and wait for the screen to fill with the debug output.

make a screen shot, big enough in size to be able to read the values, upload the pic, and post the link here please.

Does this mod take the type of physical activity into account (i.e., going/running on level ground, uphill or downhill) when calculating fatigue burn?

Also, the question about strength/endurance training through low fatigue or encumbered state remains.

No worries. I think I understand how the bvampireslikefood routine works. Another question i do have though is where is the .ini. <-- found it

http://j.imagehost.org/0994/ScreenShot8.jpg

http://j.imagehost.org/0573/ScreenShot9.jpg

http://j.imagehost.org/0373/ScreenShot10.jpg



They're my debug output.

running is implemented as vanilla mechanics, and I wont touch it, because it works quite well! the more you are enumbered the slower you are and the more fatigue you'll burn.

if running uphill downhill is taken into account, I cant really tell, but I have the impression yes. however, the lack of knowledge is what does keep me from changing the unknown.

EGM does not limit the player to only walking, if overencumbered or on low fatigue. because if he/she does, the fatigue is goin to burn really fast, causing a collapse.

the strength / endurance training:
if I do remind this properly (pls tell me if not), you wanted to have a certain skill exp increase in case the player does a lot exercise,
when he/she is overencumbered or low on fatigue.

this is not an overall bad idea, and its likely I try to implement this some now&then, if nobody else does (did none recognize EGM's master status? <-- everyone is able to write plugins for it and use them )
but not before this one is in a release state, free of worst a.r.s.i.n.g bugs.
with the new beta, I will try to introduce some new feature, like a dynamic luck attribute, some damage tweaks, which belong to the same category as your proposal.
but you really should deliver a more detailed explanation of your idea. ( post or pm me! )

at the first glance I would say the encumbrance//fatgiue system isnt working properly, the values are wrong.
Please post your mod load order, there is probably another mod altering this values. thx.

Oblivion.esmMart's Monster Mod for OOO.esmMart's Monster Mod.esmAll Natural Base.esmOscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esmEnhanced Daedric Invasion.esmBetter Cities Resources.esmTamrielTravellers.esmExtended Game Mechanics.esmRealSleepExtended.espImproved Ancestor Guardian.espCyrodiil Travel Services.espBetter Hand to Hand LITE.espKT_CustomRaceFix.espDLCFrostcrag.espJpm's Vampire Hunters.espRealisticForceMedium.espM.O.E. - Playable Dremora and Custom Race Fix.espCliff_BetterLetters.espUnofficial Shivering Isles Patch.espcidnothump.espMZ_OblivionGatesReopen_EV.espEnhanced Water v2.0 HD.espReal Lava 1.3.espCurseOfHircine.espNatural_Weather_HDR_with_darker_Nights_by_Max_Tael.espAssassins Creed - Altair's Gear - Heavy Armor.espTamrielTravellers.espTamrielTravellers4MMM.espTamrielTravellers4OOO.espTravellers4MMMHostileFactions.espTamrielTravellersFactionAll.espKotN Wayshrine Fix.espVows and Covenants.espMidasSpells.espLet There Be Darkness - Cyrodiil + SI.espLet There Be Darkness - Mehrunes Razor.espLet There Be Darkness - Knights.espColored Map for Elsweyr 1.1.espMergedMaps.espElsweyrAnequina.espDLCHorseArmor.espMaleBodyReplacerV4.espDLCOrrery.espDLCThievesDen.espQuest Award Leveling.espDLCVileLair.espDLCMehrunesRazor.espDLCSpellTomes.espKnights.espDLCShiveringIsles.espZumbsLockpickingMod - Hide Difficulty Addon.espZumbsLockpickingMod - OBSE.espMart's Monster Mod - Additional Enemy NPC Vars.espMart's Monster Mod - City Defences.espMart's Monster Mod - Diverse Creature Skins.espMart's Monster Mod - Diverse Imperial Armor.espMart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.espMart's Monster Mod - Durability & Damage.espMart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.espMart's Monster Mod - Foxes.espMart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.espMart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.espMart's Monster Mod - Less Bone Loot.espMart's Monster Mod - Less Rats.espMart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.espMart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life No Gates.espMart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life.espMart's Monster Mod - No Bone Loot.espMart's Monster Mod - No Carrion Rats.espMart's Monster Mod - Resized Races.espMart's Monster Mod - Safer Roads.espMart's Monster Mod - Spawn Rates - Moderate Increased.espMart's Monster Mod.espSSEE-OOO.espAll Natural.espAll Natural - Real Lights.espOscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.espAll Natural - EW + NW + AWS.espOOO-Container_Trap_Instant_Effects.espOOO-Water_Weeds.espOOO-Map_Markers_Stock.espHarvest [Flora].espHarvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.espLiving Economy.espLiving Economy - Items.espEnhanced Daedric Invasion.espEnhanced Grabbing.espStealthOverhaul.espBook Jackets Oblivion.espVvardenfell_Imports.espBetterMusicSystem.espbgBalancingEVCore.espbgBalancingEVOptionalClasses.espBetter Cities - Full City Defences.espVaultsofCyrodiilBC.espRshAlchemy.espCDM - Evening Lockdown.espOblivion Graphics Extender Support.espShads Water Bucket Plus.espExtended Game Mechanics Init.espBetter Cities Full.espBetter Imperial City.espBetter Cities .espBetter Cities Full FPS Patch.espBetter Imperial City FPS Patch.esp

Please try out the optional http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=30790 on TesNexus.
Its an altered version with a different Timescale algorithm, biased to the 12 hours gametime your char needs to become hungry again.
it works this way:
if bTimescale flag is set, a timescale factor will be calced every food calculation run, and applied to all calculations if timescale exceeds 12.
thus your character gets hungry every hours for all timescales above 12. this seems the best tradeoff, between high timescalers dont want to feed their char every 5 seconds,
and timescalers complaing bout their chars does not have to eat for weeks now, at timescale 5244.
Above timescale 12, and your char always get hungry after 1 hour realtime!

some notes about your egm_config.ini values.

your btimescale is 30, just set it to 1, its 0 diabled, and 1 enabled.
your imessageinterval is set to 1, this tells the routine to give out the status message continuosly! thus every game minute!
imessageinterval is not 0 for disable, and 1 for enable, but the gametime in minutes defining the intervall in gametime the status message pops up!

the bad fatigue values i will look shortly into and give you an update.

Alright, that seems to have sorted it. thank you.

One other thing, how do I drink water without the Drinking optional mod? Or is that needed also?

allright, I will put the changes in the next release. had to do that anyway since i forgot the timescale routine for thirst.

Water items, are detected, whether shads water bucket plus is installed or not, its independent, but its a freakin good mod,
providing you with lots of drinkable items. a water bucket at nearly every well to refill your waterskins.

in general, every potion, declared as food is detected as water item, refreshing your character.
its the way Beth intended to do, im not squaring the circle.
but if you asked me, beth would have done way better to provide at least a 256 bit flag field for every item, with each flag set that corresponds.
would have been much more difficile and less nerve-racking.

your fatigue values werent correct. could you do another debug screen shots with the egmx values on it?

and the living economy mod, its outdated by Enhanced Economy, i think its the follow up. and the dude who wrote it is absolutely friendly.
i noticed that he helps out immediately in his forum thread.

The http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/Special_variables can be read by you just as it was a local variable (without declaring it in your script), so by reading that, you get to see which timescale Real Sleep Extended, Automatic Timescale (my standalone timescale mod) or any other mod, set the timescale to.

I'm not sure if you need anything else...


You should ask people to use ConScribe for such debug logs. ConScribe is just so much better than screenshots.

Thanks
Enhanced Economy started as a mod that could live aside Living Economy, but now do (almost) whatever LE does, and much, much more, with better compatibility.

Hello Smeghead103 ,

do you use BOSS? I noticed RSE directly following after EGM master file. this would not be the load order suggested by BOSS.
I would recommend you to use BOSS and wyre Bash.
If you dont know how to setup, pls let me know, and I'll help you.

I checked the egm init. esp, and I found a small bug, but this couldnt be causing your irregular fatigue values.
all the calculations are done properly, but there are not set to the game engine, thus the game wont use the calced values,
and you still have vanilla mechanics workin, but all EGM calculations running.
not only this would be a waste of cycles, you have not the full EGM flavored gameplay currently.

If you want to provide another debug screen shot please post them and make sure the the egmx values are visible.

No, its ok, thank you for responding so soon. Im was completely stuck in my code.

yes the timescale value is a global variable, i know.
I only remember to have used your automatic timescale once and it caused several problems and lots of ctds after sleeping and waiting.
this made me confused. please dont think i am not aware of global variables.

EGM had food calculation in realtime, it changed as of version 1.8x. everything is done in gametime now, providing better gameplay,
timescale changes wont mess up anything anymore. unless timescale is very high.
I provided high timescalers a switch, where i tried to smooth the food calcs that running too fast now, and players getting annoyed by it,
because they had to feed their char always. now they complain they never have to.

I think I found the best tradeoff with 1.94 (timescaler version), but it has to be set explicitly, and should be put it in the config menu.

I dunno really what your timescale switch does, only setting the timescale variable? and based on what calculations?

if its only the timescale value, both mods should compatible now with 1.94 timescalers version, which are goin to be part of 1.95.

what I meant is, how should I know, if your mod actually is using this feature?
EGM has two modes, one is the authentic, always using proper food calculations based on gametime,
the other mode tricks for compatibility reasons. its likely im goin to switch the mode if RSE changes timescales within big ranges.

in what range does your automatic timescale feature change the values? what is the maximum possible timescale to bet set by RSE?