The Automatic Timescale mod (including the version inside RSE) does absolutely nothing besides adjusting the global timescale variable, so I seriously doubt the CTDs are due to that.

As said, it adjusts the timescale variable back and forth, allowing you to have a high timescale when running in the wilderness (thereby making the run between cities take some time), while having a lower timescale when sneaking or cave exploring, etc. thus making it possible to fully explore a cave without it taking 24 hours or so.

The user is free to set maximum (and minimum) in the ini, so it depends on what's used. Personally I'm using 40 as maximum (when running outside).

I was actually trying to compare this mod with RF (which does indirectly - via the corresponding skills - train strength/endurance when encumbered/fatigued).

Im using progress at the moment, which gives me some influence on how fast my char is going to advance.
additional attribute points as you suggest do interfere with vanilla mechanics and wont be part of the EGM I am workin on.

But EGM is a master file, and you should consider to find someone writing a plugin, if you cant do it yourself.
Or use RF further on, and disable encumbrance in egm. sorry.

Extended Game Mechanics (version 1.95 Beta)

Update 1.95 Beta: (timescale fix release)
- added Timescale algorithm for Timescalers version (see egm_config.ini), EGM is compatible with RSE's automatic timescale
- removed redundant variable check
- altered sickness penalty to thirst calculations
- altered over-fed food calculations
- added over-fed & sick sounds

Ok, timescale algorithm is added! with some tweaks to sickness/thirst calcs, where water requirements are higher.
Pls post any bugs in the forum. Hope this release got very few bugs left, if any at all.

have fun!

Some questions about the Shinji feature.

I like the idea of being rewarded for traveling light. My current character is a thief-like character, not very strong or wise, but fast and agile. Using default INI values and carrying minimal equipment, my level 14 char qualifies for the novice Shinji bonus. At zero encumbrance, he reaches advanced shinji, but no more. I am curious why you factor willpower in your equation instead of, say, athletics or strength? Despite all his time in prison, my character doesn't seem any wiser! Leveling willpower is not a role-playing priority. It seems to me willpower is more a trait for spellcasters, but they have spells to compensate, true? Aside from that, what are the minimum level requirements to qualify for the next two stages? Lastly, the reflect damage bonus is not something I would favor. Again, it is magical reward while the mod itself is focused upon the physical. Wouldn't speed, acrobatics or something like that be a more logical reward for traveling light?

Hi Smoke Eater,

what is wrong? the question about what to give the player and what to take, is very subtle.
The mechanics I picked, were partially my thought about how to extend them. the basics are really set up by MRE.
Willpower does indeed make sense for this bonus system, which is only part of 3 mechanics goin with shinji.

The shinji threshold is the value, at which you enter the lightweight condition, called Shinji from Gaiden Shinji.
This threshold is influenced by athletics and endurance!

the shinji condition imposes bonuses in skills and attributes to the player, this is also according to MRE.
www.uesp.net says "Willpower is the governing attribute for Alteration, Destruction, and Restoration."
These improvements are based on lightweight condition, and affects:
- Acrobatics,
- Agility,
- Athletics,
- Sneak,
- Speed.
All values do influence the players movement mechanics.

Of course you could say, the better factor would be Alteration then,
but this skill is focused on the the physical world, including weight alteration. (fyi alteration does influence the ability based fatigue bonuses based on encumbrance conditions)

Now comes the clue, Willpower does more. The following is the formula from www.uesp.net
# Fatigue = Willpower + Agility + Endurance + Strength

Willpower is the only mental attribute influencing Fatigue. and shinji condition imposes less fatigue loss, thus improving the above attributes is best reflected by willpower.
if you transform the formula to willpower you have
willpower = fatigue - ( agility + endurance + strength)
Now you see why willpower is the attribute to use for calculations of the bonus value set on the attributes and skills.

What you meant is intelligence! Willpower is best described as a mental strength, giving your char a chance for attaining better bonuses.

The only somehow irregular correlation you could argue, is between the shinji encumbrance ratio and willpower, by which the amount of the bonus applied is determined.
but not if you look at the transformed formula!

the last mechanics flanking shinji, is the alleviation based on the amount of the bonus applied. this amount determines one constraint to reach the 4 shinji stages.
the bonus amount applied is determined dynamically, and always updated, the less encumbrance and the more willpower you have, the higher is the bonus applied.
and each shinji stage does have a threshold, which gives you an additional bonus when entered.
Therefore you are only able to reach the highest shinji stage if you went through all other stages.

the other constraint is the players level. shinji stage 2 is lvl 10, shinji stage 3 is level 20, shinji stage 4 is level 35.

each shinji stages empowers you with spell effects, but as constant abilities! reflect damage is one. simply, because its most useful for light armored actors in weapon based combat.
if you have any suggestions about shinji empowering spells which suit better, just post them!

ok, sign out!

Ah ok. I wasn't aware willpower was part of the Oblivion's vanilla fatigue calculation. Obviously you put a lot of thought into the design of your mod and I appreciate that. It's a terrific feature!

With respect to reflect damage, this is probably my least favorite spell effect in the game, but that is only because I like to play with certain enhanced damage mods to make combat more deadly over all. As you can imagine, reflect damage can be a game breaker for characters relying upon stealth and sneak attacks to prevail in combat. Since Shinji doesn't apply to enemies, it's probably moot in this case; still, my preference is towards an effect granting additional speed and jump height. Another choice might be shield to better simulate the ability to avoid damage during melee. But that's just my opinion. I am sure others will see it differently.

I really like this mod so far and am playing with default values to get a feel for it. I really like how you incorporate both food and drink into your package am looking forward to testing the newest version supporting dynamic timescale.

Cheers!

Would it make sense to differ the granted constant abilitly by Characters class or spezialisation?
You say you play a thief, of course shield would even be a helpful improvement or a higher jump ability.
But what if the player is a warrior? or crusader? And Jump depends on your strength and encumbrance

On the other hand I do not understand why you argue that reflect damage is worse for this.
f someone hits your char, the enemy already spotted him/her, thus making reflect damage not responsible for detecting you.

the reflect damage ability was chosed simply because I assumed a lightweight player does reflect damage above being better shielded, in fact thats exaclty what he/she isnt!
OF course the little quirk is the reflect damage also reacts to magical attacks and projectiles, what I wouldnt do.
puh....what a mess! Thats why I chose Reflect Damage!

www.usep.net (*Please read before posting* )
Reflect Damage M% for D seconds
Reflect M% of melee physical damage back at the attacker during the next D seconds. This includes both damage due to normal weapons and damage from creature attacks.


You should explain this, really!

Reflect Damage is just a personal peeve of mine due to the combination of mods I am using which add critical hits, increased weapon damage and the like; however, since Shinji bonuses are not applied to anything but the PC, it probably wasn't worth mentioning at all! I am sure everyone has a different opinion based on how they modded the game.

At the end of the day, the shinji bonuses aren't over-powering in my opinion and that is a good thing. It is nice to have the perk, but the best reward for traveling light is still faster fatigue regeneration. Again, it may be the mod combination I use, but I like it that my character has to think twice about the kind of loot he decides to carry out of a dungeon.

I am testing the .95 version right now. I am using Duke Patrick's Combat Archery and RSE, so those are the only two settings I changed from default in the INI. My auto timescale is set to 10 indoors and 30 outdoors so a journey from Cheydinhal to Lleyawin was approximately 8 hrs game time. I am used to Real Thirst and Real Hunger and a journey like that would definitely require a lot more water and food, but with these settings, my character got by with a swig of water and an apple at the end which I thought was low. Setting btimescale back to 0 and keeping my 30 outdoor timescale, i made the same 8 hr journey and was prompted to eat and drink twice during the journey. Are these typical results for these settings?

The daily amount of Food required is determined by your characters strength ability. I assmune your char is still low on strength.

- general food requirement is biased on a char with strength 80: (<-- big warriors will have their complaint bout getting hungry much too fast!)
* after 12 hours your char gets hungry ==> the fatigue return from fFatigueReturnBase is declining
* after 72 hours your character is going to starve
- for stronger or weaker characters the duration defers to shorter or longer times for the later (sleep and wait is going to defer this periods too)

Ok, you said:
My auto timescale is set to 10 indoors and 30 outdoors so a journey from Cheydinhal to Lleyawin was approximately 8 hrs game time.

assuming your char wasnt hungry at all, he/she isnt hungry after this time! this will be true for all players with chars below strength 80!
The Timescale mode switches all timescales above 12 to equal 1 hours realtime of gameplay before your char gets hungry. even if you set timescale 40 and play 30 minutes,
thats 1200 minutes, means 20 hours of gametime, and your char still wont be hungry! I stated this explicitly as not authentic, but for compatibility.
High timescalers annoyed about their char being always hungry, or just never!

If you use timescale 10 to 40 I would say its best to use authentic food calculations with btimescale set to 0.
and as you said, two apples and some water is a good value! in my opinion, just perfect.

Remember also, that food calculations arent final, there will be an addivitve based on your total fatigue burn in between that time.
but this is only for next beta release planned, after the current is in most parts without any bugs.

Water requirements are biased towards 48 hours of gametime, but also water needs are partially dependent on the suns intensity,
indoors, night & dungeons = less, broad sun = sweat phat.

Ah ok. This makes sense now. As it is, I like that your food and drink system is not so intrusive that it takes over from everything else. Although the previous mods I used before EGM were pretty good, I still felt I was spending too much time (real and game) satisfying the mod and waiting around for messages. I think you have the right balance. Once it becomes more adjustable, I can tweak the meal size to make it more intuitive and life will be good! .

I'm perfectly content with the eating and drinking system now that it works with Shad's Water bucket. I haven't thought of a single complaint since that patch was released.

I say great work. Though, I don't think I need to tell you that, Marshmallow.

there is a preversion ( version b ) to download and test.
The main purpose is to test the feature smoke eater was missing, in terms that high fatigue use burns more food, and makes your character demand more, or in other words, the char get hungry sooner.
I did not properly test this version, though it seems to run well in a 15 minute run.

PS:
The version c includes beside the extra food the extra water consumption related to fatigue burn as well.
I dunno if this is going to push the water consumption too high. Both needs testing, in order to fine adjust the values.

PS2:
Im goin to implement this feature as of the next beta release 1.96, since it shouldnt be consider a new feature in total, but more an extension.
anyone to try it is welcome, please post feedback!!

Thanks for 1.96C. I'll give it a full test this weekend when I have more time to play.

Wait for friday night, Ill put up the 1.96,
- where a single check has been added to avoid fatigue burns calculations after sleeping/waiting, removing a eventual zero divison bug
- values have already been tweaked
- and the worse thirst condition do penalty speed and agility

but all have to be careful with this release, dont know whether the changed spells or what, but several of my savegames couldnt load anymore.
if that happens on your rig too, please post.

Hey Marshmallow, I did install and I already like the system, pretty easy (never used any other sleep or food mods before). So this on is pretty easy to work with. I have one problem so far. I have the bVampireslikeFood set to 1 in the .ini, I'm assuming your mod is going by the vanilla vampire hunger mechanics, but I'm using http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=OblivionMods.Detail&id=7274&id=1793 and will be using http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1091319-unholy-darkness-complete-vampire-overhaul/ when its released. Aundae in cyrodil changes the way the vampirism and feeding work, i'm not sure how indepthly, but i know it does, which I think Unholy darkness is planned to do something similar in changing the feeding system. Is it possible to get some compatibility for it? For right now I basically always get the "you might want to eat and drink some more" message, when my blood level is at Full.

Hello DemonxSpellblade,

long time not seen!
The food system EGM uses is totally isolated from the vampire vanilla food mechanics.
Only if you like to have these EGM mechanics too, set the bVampireslikeFood switch to 1.
You'll have hunger and thirst effects, not partially, but full.

There never will be any compatibility to vampire food mechanics, because they are handled by vanilla,
or by special dediated mods, in terms of blood use and whatever else vampires do like.Or at least they should!

EGM food/thirst is pretty much standard here, every special food mechanics, regardings vampire state or else possible,
must be done by the mod providing the special conditions. It would be way too much work, without knowing what the author
intended or how he handles the special food mechanics. they wont be automatially compatible, this would be almost impossible.

If you set the bVampiresLikeFood to 1 in EGM, and the bfood and bwater too, then you should be caught by the food mechanics,
if not, pls post again, because Im rreally unsure if this is what you meant.

PS:
After takin a short look into the latter vamipre mod, as the more promising to me, I definitely know it will bring its own special dedicated food mechanics with it,
which EGM is already compatible, because it switches normal food calculations automatically off for your char.

Great work! I like the new features, food and thirst are more inmersive now

Thank you very much, Kaervan.
But I really dont feel that EGM is finished. My vision is to add all the necessary animations, for panting, being drunk, exhausted, etc.
The vision of egm animated mainly is based upon metrognome233's comment, to have the panting sounds lipsynced.
I tried a few hours with facegen, but, hey..! Dont know if I'm not relaxed enough or just untalented.
At this point, i am a total noob in terms of animation, dont know much about nif and blender either.
I might ask some of the few animation experts, if anyone could help out.

The next release got the spells tweaked a bit, eg. removed damage health from evil ancumbrance, in order to let the player fast travel again in this condition,
also the reflect damage in shinji was lowered a bit, regarding smoke eaters post. but i didnt remove it completely.
all-in-all these spells do fit much better now in my concern.

Perhaps the http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1073323-wipzoblivion-reanimated/ team could make something, although this an early wip project they are a great team of animators.

Extended Game Mechanics (version 1.97 Beta)

Update 1.97 Beta: (mother's day release )
- altered Encumbrance condition based spells to better reflect their spell school dependent on Willpower (Alteration, Destruction, Restoration)
- added File check at initialisation process for the .ini files
- changed Shinji stage entry conditions, its more difficult now to enter the higher stages (bonus threshold 3/6/9 instead 2/5/8)


Based on Smoke Eaters comment i have altered the Shinji Spells to be part of the proper Spell School actually, assuming their origin depends on the Willpower Attribute.
Many thanks to Smoke Eater he notified this.

In addition for granting other spells, which are more powerful, I have raised the entry conditions based on the bonus threshold to 3/6/9.
(the formula for achieving bonus points, which raise the abilities and skills, is: shinji encumbrance ratio * willpower + shinji_stage_bonus

The other changes are of technical nature, some users might detect that the ini files were deleted or are missing because of some whatever reaons.

Happy Weekend!

...

The next release will cover some topics bout vampires, for example if you become a vampire actually,
the routine doesnt catch you if not explicity set, but the values are not handled anymore until you regain normal state.
thats a little bit unfinished, since you have to take care to become a vampire well-fed and not thirsty in order to have the return value from fFRB not too low,
which doesnt change anymore until your back to normal.
i might ask the other modders what their feeding system and cope it with egm, but i know thats very unsure.
sorry for the late answer, DemonXSpellBlade.

PS: I thought maybe i give vampires a better jump ability, as they generally are in a better physical condition? any opinions about that?

Just recognized, the spell effects of BadThrist, etc. were all Damage Type instead Drain Type, this is goin to change in the next release. Sorry bout that, happens when late nite work!