You're not wrong, but the point of an 'extreme build' is that you start with the problems you outline. Sure, you can take a build and tweak it, but these are definite builds in a pure form.

I thought the 'activate crit' thing was just for VATS, where each shot built up the crit meter (based on Luck) and when it was full you could execute, but you could still achieve regular crits (and presumably sneak attack crits) outside of VATS like normal.

Your title said it all and after I posted I thought I should have mentioned I was being off topic.

It wasn't until I was in the middle of the post that I noticed how many levels it would take us to max out a couple of perks.

It is one thing to min/max (and I love to min/max) to grab some high level perks with just one rank each and another when it will take four levels to max each perk.

I do think that changes the dynamic.

The unknown is rate of levelling. This strategy may be a complete disaster but fun to find out.

I always highly specialize, none of that "Jack-of-all-trades" business!

These aren't "extreme builds" these are just classes/rps.

Perhaps, I find builds with 8,8,8,1,1,1,1 fairly extreme.

What would you consider an 'extreme build'?

What I meant, is you described rather archetypal RP classes. Ones with inherent strengths and weaknesses. Not attribute min/max wise, but in their descriptions.

We have no idea on what an extreme build is yet since I do not think anyone here except maybe members of the Developing team has played the game.

Maybe the extreme build is the one that is the Jack/Jill of all trades build.

While extreme builds (like 10, 10, 4, 1, 1, 1, 1) might be interesting to tinker with, as suggested somewhere above, they may also be too limiting, or require extensive effort to overcome shortfalls. That doesn't mean they wouldn't be FUN ---- if you just plain don't CARE to unlock every lock, or hack every computer, or talk to anyone, and you just enjoy slamming a sledgehammer on the noggin of bandits, I'm sure you could do that with a pretty focused melee build. But you would (by choice) miss out on the lockpicking mini-game, or accessing things behind locked doors, etc. Which may be just fine and dandy for you.

What actually worries me a little bit is that an ~optimal~ path may be a more jack-of-all-trades path. Don't get me wrong, I love being a jack (jill?) of all trades, being able to do everything at least ~somewhat~ well. Not the strongest, not the smartest, but strong and smart -enough-. But if it turns out that being focused to an extreme extent turns out to be more problematic or troublesome than it's worth, people might be inclined to adopt a more even distribution of SPECIAL points. And if everyone is using 4s across the board, or perhaps a few 6s and a few 2s to slightly vary things, it looks like everyone would start to look the same.

I guess I'm just hoping that the ~down~ side of choosing an extreme build is not so limiting that it draws one toward a more even spread of talents. There will always be those up for the challenge, I suppose, but I know myself well enough to know that if I tried a 10, 10, 4, 1, 1, 1, 1 build with, say, Agility and Perception for VATS excellence and then found out that my low STR, INT, CHA, END and LUCK really made things too hard for me, I'd start nudging away from the extremes.

Obviously there have to be some down-sides to specializing in an extreme build. Like I said, I just hope they're not too drastic. Like STR and END, which I plan to start at 1 each.... hopefully I won't die every time a mole rat sneezes on me, nor leave a rut in the ground, dragging my sniper rifle after me with the ten rounds of ammo I can afford to carry.

S 2

P 9

E 2

C 2

I 2

A 3

L 8

Sniper

At some point, I might go for a pacifist build and max out CH, AG, and put the rest in IN or LU (for loot). But I think I'll save that for a later playthrough, after I learn the extent of how nonviolent the game lets me be. Sometimes I do think pacifism should be a bigger focus for Fallout games, but I dunno.

That was a problem with the first two Fallouts (at least in cases where the stat wasn't worthless to begin with), but that's also the main reason Bethesda lightened up on SPECIAL's importance in 3. I don't think they'd punish you too hard for having a low stat, especially since the system seems to be designed around eventually growing your SPECIAL up.

S-1

P-1

E-8

C-1

I-8

A-1

L-8

Call it what you want, but I expect to either leave behind tons of good loot, or have to make lots of small trips.

Not thinking of giving your power armour a lick of red and yellow paint and referring to codsworth as "Jarvis"

I actually have my planned SPECIAL stats written down on my desk blotter at work:

S-2

P- 8

E- 4

C-1

I- 4

A-5

L4

Pretty balanced in all but Perception as I plan to be a sniper, and these may change as BGS posts the series of SPECIAL videos explaining how it all works. MY eventual plan is to MOAT. From what I have seen of Exp earned for discovering locations and kills, you will not get a lot of points for things. The points all look very similar to points earned in Fallout 3, and right now in 3 I am at level 19 with about 20 hours in to the game and taking no perks that increase points earned to keep leveling slow. If we follow the Fallout 3 points and leveling model, and Fallout 4 offers 400 + hours of gameplay, it is conceivable that doing everything the game offers could in fact have you as a MOAT if you choose, or if we are not forced to pick a perk when leveling, have a very specific character build by the "end" of all possible quests.

It will be interesting to see how some of the character builds in this thread would play out, and I can't wait to see the threads when the game finally launches.

I think my first build will be something like this:

S -1

P -1

E -1

C -9

I -5

A -2

L -9

So guys I always wondered was it possible in fallout 3 on pc to use the console to get unlimited mini nukes for the fatman......or mirv that would make quite a destructive playthrough.....

With Party Boy/Girl somewhat confirmed, I am not sure about using an extreme Charisma build now. None of my characters have used chems or alcohol as part of their build, so I don't know if I want to waste a whole perk for that.

I always have at least 9 strength and endurance, not sure where the rest of the points will go though. I'll have to see what all the perks are first.

Interesting, Liam had the Charisma perks as:

1. Cap Collector .
2. Lady Killer/Black Widow/Confirmed Bachelor/Cherchez La Femme
3. Attack Dog .
4. Animal Friend .
5. Local Leader
6. Party Boy/Girl
7. Lone Wanderer
8. Inspiration
9. Wasteland Warrior
10. Intimidation

You don't have to take the whole perk chain do you?

Having even one perk above 8 is extreme. I think having 4 1's just makes the character way too unbalanced. It would just be a chore to play with essentially 4 weaknesses. The only reason why you would do something like that is if you are doing a non-kill playthrough.

Non-Kill Playthrough:

S1

P1

E1

C10

I4

A10

L1

No, because you are completely blocked from doing so by the perk system. Why would you think that they will let you get an extra 42 perks that you are locked out of at the start of the game?

For an extreme build, I think I would. Is this not like Skyrim? Or can we skip over some to get the ones we want?

I see what you did there.

So did I...was trying to ignore it. Also Word Crimes.