If anything, I say YOU'RE acting like a child.

How so

You made the topic that no one can possibly debate without you always coming to the point "you need the non-renewable resources in order to become pre-war again." So anyone that tries to explain that yeah it is possible for a faction to get to a pre-war level, would keep hitting that same wall over and over again.

What styles said, and you keep saying, like a child:

"NO NO NO NO NO YOURE WRONG IM RIGHT LALALA I CANT HEAR YOU!!!"

Too long for me to read and you didn't include a tl:dr so I'll just respond to the tile as I'm really lazy: Whoever said I wanted the Mojave restored?

Have a smoke and some coffee, then read a couple posts, I think you will enjoy it.

Mr House is the closest, though do remeber Pittsburgh in Fallout 3, highly indutrialized. If NCR could find a place like that then maybe.....?

Of course I'm going to rely on that point, it's my central argument but that doesn't necessarily dictate that I'm right, or that my point can't be dis proven, or that I'm not full of [censored] on that point. It's just a claim with a warrant not a fact of the universe.

Ummm ok....

In any case Styles when it comes down to it tell me do you disagree with these next two points.

A. The NCR has a massive amount of labor (comparatively) used in agricultural production.
B. There is consolidation within the NCR of agricultural lands

I can understand that, but if you read this topic I think you might just enjoy what you find.

House is going to get the closest to Pre-War standards, but on a small scale.

NCR is going to get closest to America as a whole, but I don't think it could last really long.

Independence is only as good as the Courier who rules it, (A.K.A when the Courier dies, so will his/her society)

Legion is very hard to anolyze, because if you have good morals, you kind of have to put them aside to support them. I see them already becoming unstable, so I doubt they'd last longer than NCR.

Bottom Line: Pick what you think is the lesser evil.

I personally don't think the Legion will come anywhere near 2051 if for no other reason that they reject Capitalism, Consumerism and Privatization. They'll also probably fall or be reduced within a few decades regardless.

It is the point you will keep thowing back in anyones face. It will keep going in circles. I have made my case very clear. In fact in the very first post I pointed out the flaw in this so called "debate" and you said it wasn't the only issue. But so what about other issues? They don't matter because no matter what anyone says you will say "You need non-renewable resouces" that aren't around anymore. Any other issues just doesn't matter, and pointless to debate.

There is replicator technology. They can just replicate some damn Uranium. There I win. They can teleport the salt out of water. They can make more GECKS. They can use an army of robots to farm the fields and make things cheap.

I somewhat agree with this. After playing Dead Money, I can see everlasting hope for the human race again.

Stop stop stop, they can do a lot of things. But what will actors within the NCR do given their situation and knowledge of it is totally different. People work by the incentive systems created around them and that's critical to understanding while the average NCR citizen will end up a serf, so just tell me do you agree or disagree with these two points?

A. The NCR has a massive amount of labor (comparatively) used in agricultural production.
B. There is consolidation within the NCR of agricultural lands

They will do what they do in Star Trek, they will all become commies dedicating their lives to what ever they want.

With the people no longer having to work in the fields, they can join the army and kick legion ass.

You sound like one of those nuts saying "Governments and oil companies don't want us to have cars that run on water man." If NCR was going to fall apart and they found tech that can produce Uranium out of thin air, they will damn well use it. They have nothing else like Uranium. And NCR is about moving forward, not ass backwards like the Legion.

How in living hell does the NCR have post scarcity technology.

I think this discussion about the NCR and all that might finally motivate me to start playing New Vegas again as an NCR play-through.

It's been a while, so I think it'll be good.

They could come across the http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Sierra_Madre_Casino_(hotel). They could come across the Big Empty. They could somehow make that tech their own. My point is the tech is out there! It does exist, and no amount of complaining is going to make it go away. Going back to the key word TIME. In time NCR could find this tech or rediscover it.

Pre-War America would have used this tech to make their lives better, to bring America back from the brink of total failure. So this tech could have restored America to Glory if the Great War never happened. It can restore thing after the Great War.

Ok so now we know there is post scarcity tech out there wonderful, now let's get a few things straight about all this.

A. Just because said tech exist doesn't mean the NCR has the ability to reproduce it, they barely have the ability to operate Power Armor
B. Even if the NCR CAN reproduce such tech doesn't mean they are going to spend that much capital/taxpayers money doing so
C. The NCR's surplus of labor suprusses private incentives to develop labor saving technology
D. The NCR doesn't even have enough engineers to run a solar power plant or enough forces to clear the thing out, your telling me they're going to waste troops finding and claiming places like Sierra or the Big Empty? Right.
E. The NCR political establishment is uninterested in OSI as shown by the lack of resources for the Vault 22 mission.
F. Give one piece of evidence that the NCR even knows were Sierra or the Big Empty are or that they know what's there.
G. The NCR has limited resources as a nation most of which will be consumed with the easier option of expansion, either into the Mojave, Baja or the Northwest.

Skimmed through a little and "The Legion spy units would be cast aside due to Legate's hatred of their "woman like tactics""
Whaaaaaaaat...?
When does he say "women-like" tactics?

He doesn't, but he has a general dis stain for the Legion's covert operations and would probably let them rot. Talk to Legate at the end about what he thinks about the Omerta's plot for example.

My point is the tech is out there. In Time NCR could come across it and or reinvent it. They have some very smart people. They have the Shi, they have the people trying to research Vault 22.

In time, if NCR keeps pushing East, they will find it. If NCR wins the second battle for Hoover Dam. There is no reason to believe that they woudn't discover the Big Empty or Sierra.

It could be a decade, it could be 200 years! The tech is out there and in time the NCR would most likely find it and use it and make things pre-war again.

Oh and another note:


Wanna know the difference between Lanius and Caesar concerning their lands?

Lanius, cares about the lands they currently hold.
Caesar, don't.
If the Legion needs to relocate their resources then they will with Caesar's victory.
The easternmost part of the Legion will be left behind and they'll move their eastern border to the west a couple of notches.

Caesar ain't stupid. He knows that sacrifices has to be made for the general good. Their eastern lands will be lost in favor of the western lands.
As to whether or not he will return to reclaim them once his army has regained it's strength is a whole another issue which is too much speculation.

October 22, 2077. America was out of Fossil Fuels and Uranium. Yet they had tech like Teleporters and more importantly, Replicators ready to be put into mass production as of October 24th 2077. America was going to use this tech to pull themselves out of the whole they were in. Things were looking good. They had already discovered cold fusion. Tech was going to save America.

They didn't have the non-renewable resources anymore, and a population of 400 milion, but things were going to get better for America, but October 23, 2077 brough the Great War, and it all came to an end.

But that tech is still out there, waiting to be found and used again. And NCR has a good chance to find it. Even better if they win the second battle of Hoover Dam.

And then there's the time issue, time I don't think the NCR has. My views have changed without the courier they wouldn't win in the Mojave, but even if they did things would still fall apart before hand. They've run out of water now, not enough food in 10 years, all with Brahmin Barons expanding their influence. The tunnelers will probably spread, through the course of their scientific research/scavenging they would probably release some type of virus or hazard (like those spore plant monsters in Vault 22, am I the only person who can see that ending badly?). And even if they do come up with a magical post scarcity machine put that bad boy in the wrong persons hands and you have totalitarianism or some form there of. There are so many issues with any civilization making it to post scarcity and in honesty the odds are against the NCR doing so.

Edit: A few post back I noted the future of the NCR, I think this post still stands on all points

NCR is stable enough, NCR has basic tech like solar, wind man made fuels and resources from annexed and conquered lands to keep them going until they discover the pre-war tech. Hell they are within range of this tech already. If they win the second battle of Hoover Dam, its pretty much good as theirs.

Have you ever read "A Canticle for Leibowitz"? You really should, if you haven't. But things will improve. Things could become better than pre-war America. And as we all know from Fallout. "War. War never changes" and it will all happen again.