I was really surprised to see several nods to Tactics in Fallout 4.

Captain Kells in the BoS mentions the airships the BoS built in the past, and Nuka-Cola Cherry first appeared in Tactics.

But what interested me the most were the Assaultrons. Does anyone else feel like these might be a reference to the humanoid robots of Tactics? obviously redesigned a bit like how the Enclave PA in Fallout 3 was very obviously based off of the Tactics power armor, but modified a bit?

It would be interesting if Bethesda finally made that part of Tactics canon.

I have noticed an interesting number of similarities between the two, most notably the BOS's attitude except the MW brotherhood allowed non-humans to join where's this one are nothing but a bunch of hostile belligerent zealots.

Why were you surprised? I mean it a pretty huge nod just having a gigantic Airship in the game, regardless which BoS faction was controlling it. It almost would have been disrespectful to FOT to have a giant Airship and not make any comment about FOT, seeing how airships wasn't their idea to begin with.

As far as Assaultron goes, I don't think so. It seems like this supposed to be a pre-war robot and while I can't remember for certain, I thought the Calculator built all its robots post war. Plus they wielded weapons and the Assaultron has built in weaponry. Maybe they will make it that Assaultron was an inspiration for the Calculator though.

What I am more curious about is the comment Piper said to me while adventuring. She said that she heard "out west Mutants and humans lived together".

Now, as far as I know, there is no place on the WC where Mutants and Humans live together(Broken Hills doesn't exist anymore like it did in FO2 iirc). Out west could mean the Midwest, where it is possible mutants and humans are working together and even together in the BoS. I predict that FO 5 is going to be MW BoS vs CW BoS, at least a part of it, like the stormcloak war in Skyrim.

Broken Hills only dissolved because of the mines running dry.

I don't think it's a reference to Tactics.

I do hope the next game is set in Chicago, though.

I'm also hoping for a small Chapter rather than an Empire.

Yes, but there are still no places in the West Coast where Humans and Mutants are living together. Even in FONV they are still at odds, humans don't like them, even the more "friendlier" SM. Doctor Henry is the only human at Jacobstown.

Maybe when she says "live together" it means not actively trying to kill one another.

Maybe, but she acts like it is working together, and she then goes on to speculate how it works and wonders if the humans are the mutants slaves. Regardless, SM like Marcus are fairly rare on WC, and the vast majority of SM were driven east, out of the west, which is what FOT is all about, BoS sends MWBoS to finish off the SM. So, most western SM are not in the west anymore, but in the MW. Even Marcus has been slowly moving eastward, and we get the notion that all SM that did remain west are now being pushed east.

When I saw the assault robots and I did think of the Tactics robots. The other part about talking about the airships is interesting, I haven't got to it yet. But that would be a clear reference to Fallout Tactics

From what I recall, you can ask Lancer Captain Kells about the Prydwen, and if the Brotherhood has any more airships, and he mentions that the Brotherhood did built more primitive versions of the Prydwen in the past, and that while historical records are in doubt, they believe all of those airships were destroyed.

Man...

My first play through I'm going Minutemen/Railroad, but I can't wait to find out more about BoS and Institute. Institute was fascinating to me straight off the bat and BoS is really growing on me. I hope there's a lot more stuff about all those factions in the DLC

I just wish that with all the Blade Runner vibes this game is throwing we could have That Gun

That is awesome news. I am however avoiding the Brotherhood quests for the most part. But I did enough of the game that the ship as arrived. There should be little doubt about the canon status of Fallout Tactics, now.

Edit: The airship part of the story is canon. That got me thinking about the Vault 0 part being canon. Aside from it being a "high level event" in Tactics. We know from Fallout 4 that some Vaults were built in already existing locations, such as Vault 114. So, this could mean that building/putting a Vault inside of NORAD (Cheyenne Mountain) isn't out of the realm of possibility. We also know that cryogenics was used in Vaults as well. Vault 0 was basically (simplifying) Vault 111, on a massive scale. I am also interested in what some of the Triggermen say about the idea that Vault 114 was never meant to actually be used... cause I have been saying that about Vault 0 for ages now.

Yeah, FO 4 basically confirms the BoS had Airships on the WC, which are obviously the ones the MW BoS used, so once again, FOT is mentioned and is canon. It burns Tag's butt so hard that he won't respond about it, and he still argues that BoS didn't make them, but when asked where did they get this Fleet of Airships from, he dun say nada. Burnnnnns so hard and deep it does.

The ones (one) that Lyon's are using aren't the original ones. Those according to Brotherhood records were lost. Which fits Fallout Tactic's Story to a T.

I really hope that we get to see the MWBoS (Eastern Brotherhood) again. My hope is that right now Obsidian is working on it.

http://fallout.gamepedia.com/The_Prydwen:

Kells: "Actually, the Brotherhood of Steel had a whole fleet of these things at one time. They weren't as advanced as the Prydwen, mind you... but seeing them fill the sky must have been an impressive sight."

Survivor: "Are you kidding me? What happened to them?"

Kells: "Not sure, really. Most of them were destroyed fighting Super Mutants or scuttled for parts. I think one of them crash landed somewhere in the Midwest. I heard that the wreckage is still there."

It's a nod, yeah, but he doesn't say they *made* them.

Just found em all intact, under a rock, right? Regardless, I doubt, even if found(which was theory I presented months back), they were not in working condition and needed repairs. Kells isn't 100% in his history, but going by tactics we know he kind of has the story down, the SM were being chased out of the west by the BoS who followed in Airships. We know most, if not all of the Airships were used to go after them. We know more than one was sent, and we know more than one crashed. Kells information not being 100% accurate makes sense, seeing how he is CW BoS and wouldn't have been born at the time of the MW BoS or their mission, which is evident in his words of "Not sure" and "I think". The wreckage that is still there, is probably Gammorin's Airship that we can find in game.

I'd also like to see the Midwestern Brotherhood again. It'd be interesting to meet a Brotherhood of Steel that unlike the other chapters we've seen, deviated so far that they're effectively the Brotherhood of Steel in name only. Their willingness to accept mutants (unless the Barnaky ending is canon, but at this point, that'd just feel repetitive), that distinctive power armor with those snazzy side capes, their apparent lack of acknowledgement of the Maxon bloodline (which the rest of the Brotherhood practically worships), they'd make an interesting faction to meet, and an even more interesting one to join (if Tactics was any indication, they're not particularly picky).

Since Maxson's Brotherhood is basically Barnaky in everything but name, my guess is that the Barnaky ending probably isn't canon. And if it is, it would be pretty boring at this point since it would just be a copy-cat of Maxson and not anything unique.

My guess is that either the "Bad Ending" or the "Good Ending" is canon for the MWBOS. Or maybe the "Neutral," although that again would be pretty boring.

My hope is that its the "Bad Ending" (which is a bit of a misnomer since its not really "bad"). A Midwestern Brotherhood led by a free-thinking AI which enforces mutant toleration and unity would probably make Maxon's Brotherhood see red. I'd like to watch the fireworks from that encounter.

I am actually making a large part of my mod a tribute to Fallout Tactics lore because I think is a shame to just ignore such a good source of history, even if Bethesda only considers it semi-cannon.

Based on what Scribe Rothchild said in Fallout 3 about them being in 'Chicago' made me doubt people at Bethesda had even played the game, because regardless of which ending is cannon, the 'Minority Faction' of the Brotherhood of Steel ended up with their base in Colorado with almost nobody left in Chicago and that being by far the furthest place away from their headquarters.

I personally would never trust the Calculator, so I would not give it my brain and am die hard a follower of the 'destroy the Calculator' ending.

As a result though, the 'Minority Faction' is spread very thin across the Midwest. My personal view of what happens next is that they start to lose their identity, with letting tribals, ghouls, and mutties join, soon much of the Brotherhood has priorities that they hold more important to them than their Brotherhood duties. I can see the members of the Brotherhood setting up across the Midwest, starting families, and then wanting to stay with their family and protect that settlement as opposed to being all gung-ho about the Brotherhood.

So I would imagine 90 years later they have mostly dissolved into just local defenders who may wear the old power armor, but the centralized force is no longer intact.

According to my research, Cheyenne Mountain is now part of Legion territory, and if I remember correctly someone in the Legion mentioned fighting Brotherhood out East. I would imagine that 90 years later they no longer hold a centralized HQ at Vault 0, and what remains of the 'Minority Faction' is now spread across Kansas and Oklahoma.

Based on my story, 'Dagger Squad' a tribute to the squad that tool Vault 0 with the player, is out in Kansas and ends up setting up camp at Vault 54. I also have 'Talon Squad' which is at Tinker Airforce base in Oklahoma City, where they have been attempting to repair Vertibirds.

The characters in my mods are decedents of the characters in Tactics. I did break the number one rule of lore though, and I gave the player character of Fallout Tactics a name... so that might offend some people... But it seemed to impersonal not to.

So Maria Barnakey, who is named after her grandmother Maria Barnakey the wife of General Simon Barnakey is mother of one of my characters. This character actually references the whole robobrain thing and has Barnakey's locket as part of her apparel.

Another character is the great grandaughter of the main character of Tactics, but has the last name Dekker, because her father was a decedent of General Dekker.

Another companion character is actually the Calculator robot that kidnapped the already kidnapped Barnakey from Gammorin and took him to the Calculator. He tells tales about fighting Gammorin and surviving and having taken a rocket from the player character during the battle of Vault 0. He ended up joining the Brotherhood after being repaired and is now a Paladin General.

An east coast muttie who picked up the name Gammorin and is leading the survivors that had at one point joined the Brotherhood of Steel during Tactics in the task of finding a cure for super mutant sterility is one of the villains of my mod.

And the Reavers... well, they are the main faction my mod is centered around.

I am mostly a 3d modeler over anything else, so I am in the process of making new versions of the Tactics Power armor, there will be multiple versions, as well as the Humanoid Calculator Robots, Robobrains, and a Pacification Robot.

So I am not bringing back the 'Minority Faction' of the Brotherhood of Steel as a faction, but if someone is up to doing that I am very much willing to help out and share everything I have for my mod. I just already have too much going on with my mod to go large scale with my ideas for bringing another Brotherhood squad into the game.

If anyone is interested, I would be happy to send you a link to my website where I have all my stuff in progress.

Also, I never use the term 'Midwest Brotherhood of Steel' because it was never actually used in any Fallout game and is just a fan label...

Albeit a far more correct and logical one, since "Eastern Brotherhood of Steel" doesn't really make sense any more since we now have the East Coast BOS. Its confusing and redundant.

IIRC the MWBOS never used "Eastern Brotherhood" to refer to themselves either. They're just "The Brotherhood of Steel."

And I mean, you need some way to distinguish them now. Just calling them "Brotherhood of Steel" is a bit silly since the Brotherhood isn't a monolithic entity anymore. Each group has their own leaders, history, and ideology at this point.

I don't think any of the endings except destroying the Calculator could work with New Vegas, unless you want to retcon the existence of that entire game.

There is no way that 80 years later that the Mohave was not even mildly effected by a power as big as the Calculator, considering it took a matter of weeks for the Calculator to spread fear in the hearts of the Midwest.

The Calculator and Vault 0 are also pretty much in Legion territory...

Though, I say this all for the sake of debate. If you have something to counter this I am all up for hearing it and adapting my ideas. I very much like to hear other peoples opinions on the matter.

Nah, since we only know that the "High Level" events of tactics are canon. We don't yet know how Bethesda wants to handle the endings.

Easy solution would just be to keep the main structure of the Bad Ending (i.e. mutant toleration, AI leader), and tweak it a bit so that the Brotherhood isn't this continent spanning Empire by the end of the game.

Truthfully we aren't really even sure in-canon where Vault 0 is. Might not have been Cheyenne Mountain, but somewhere in the Midwest.

Seems like a lot of tweaking... especially moving the very location of Vault 0 which is pretty much in integral part of the story.

It seems so much easier to not have to tweak anything and just believe the Calculator was destroyed. Lyons traveled across the Midwest and only found a small 'Rebel Faction' during his journeys. To me it is pretty clear that they are all but disintegrated and not some large robot army that is fighting for the good of all.

My assumption would be that the 'rebels' that Rothchild speaks of were once part of the Tactics Brotherhood of Steel, stationed far away from HQ out in Chicago, but since they have long lost contact with a destroyed HQ they just went out on their own and did what they had to in order to survive.

That seems to me more the direction Bethesda is going, since they are not all that interested in Fallout Tactics and seem to want to minimize it as much as possible.

Not really, he is nowhere as hellbent as Barnaky was.

Barnaky was perfectly willing to slaughter the ghouls and super mutants who were peaceful, and rounded up any humans he considered to be genetically flawed, forcing them into labor camps.

Arthur just treats all humans the same, and while he doesn't like ghouls, all the BoS soldiers constantly say they hunt muties and FERALS. I don't actually recall anyone saying that Maxson outright hunts down and kills non-feral ghouls.

Well, they clearly don't treat all humans the same. You do take that physical exam by a Doctor, so it seems they do weed out some humans. Shoot them in the head and dump them overboard, well, maybe not.

However, I don't think it is the Barnaky brain ending now either for sure, and I thought it was pretty slim chance for that to be the case in the first place. I think the Calculator destroyed. I also think the next FO game will be MW BOS vs CW BOS, with mutant, ghouls, and maybe even deathclaws in the MW BOS.

Barnaky Ending is still my pick. My idea for it summed up would be that not long after becoming the leader he turns on the Brotherhood. First he goes after the Elders that gave the okay to let the Brotherhood work with ghouls/super mutants. This in turn creates splits with in the Brotherhood.

After all humans also join the Mutant Liberation Army. With many in the Midwestern Brotherhood being average wastelanders forced to join them... many wouldn't have any real loyalty to MWBoS. Many would leave and join the MLA. With brotherhood training and stolen equipment they could do a lot of damage. Humans and mutants would have been trained and gone through combat actual combat with the Brotherhood. So they would have the skills to be an actual army.

Barnaky's purging the ranks of mutant sympathizers creates fear and hostility in the Brotherhood. Over the years Barnaky becomes paranoid, even more so than before. The longer the war with the MLA and other groups goes on the more he believes people within the Brotherhood are secretly supporting them. So he has more purges. Going after people he thinks are supporting the enemies but actually aren't.

Some take it upon themselves to remove Barnaky from power. They try to kill him with explosives. They fail but do a hell of a lot of damage to Vault 0's systems. This puts Barnaky into full blown "Big Brother" mode. He is no longer able to control as many robots as before and the further away they are the less control. Losing that control and the removal of so many military leaders, the MWBoS become very weak and unable to project power. Over the decades their territory shrinks. They fall back to strongholds.

We also have to remember that in the game it is stated that Vault 0 had very limited resources to make, repair and power it's robots. The Calculator set up shop in many pre-war factories and got an old nuclear power plant working. The MWBoS destroyed all of that in the War with the Calculator. So the MWBoS even without Barnaky would have a hard time getting all those factories up and running to produce robots. So the robot army would in time, over a hundred years would be greatly reduced due to decades of combat over such a large area.