So, Bethesda announced that Fallout 4 will come 100% Uncut to Germany and that saved me an probably some others good money, i had preordered 2 versions, an Austria version and the german Pipboy edition, so this makes me quite more happy.

Means we get the full gore and other things like hanging bodies and maybe some good old body sacks too? Who knows!

What keeps me up now is, will we be able to switch to full english for the game? Steam should be able to i hope, but you never know. We don't want to miss out on the full voice acting and god knows what kind of voices they use for the german version and translation often kill some jokes or implicaitions, which we all want to avoid.

I also really hope Uncut means UNCUT here, i remember some games in the past, that said they would be uncut, but some researching revealed it isn't fully uncut, i hope Bethesda says something about that more clearly here. I remember that some games that could come fully uncut here had both, the USK and PEGI marking on their cover and CD, which is often a really save thing then.

The only voiced language beth did for fo4 is in English so I wouldn't worry.

Even though I only speak English, I would love it if game developers would devote the same resources to non-English speakers, even if it is just the standard EFIGS.

Of course, that would put it at almost 600,000 line of dialog on one disc.

I don't like the german dubs from games, they often take away from the feeling and such, best example would be Wolfenstein cause of the Nazi stuff in it, it is full german and everyone speaks german, while in the "normal" version you rather hear the guards and such talk german and the rest their own language and such,′there in my opiinion it takes heavily away from the atmosphere.

I really wish Bethesda would make a statement to the voice acting on the german version and the language settings, apparenlty a lot of people, even on Twitter seem to be concerned about it.

They want to play it in full english, but of course also uncut, i hope we don't see things like: "Yeah...thats uncut, but no no, this little ragdoll effect here is gone"

Yes, already written about the USk18 uncut in germany in another thread. Not to surprised, considering how more tolerant the USK is nowadays. For about 10 years, games often had to use green blood in the german version, or soldiers haven't been killed and where only sitting on the ground, after they had been shooted, or the game had only robots in it and no humans as enemies. Think, some ppls who had to play such versions, are in the USK today aswell.

For the dialog, yes thats a good question. 110000 lines. Thats a lot of. Yust wonder, how the localisation will look because of this. A fully voiced german edition (Same for other non english languages)? Or yust subtitles?

But even when we have full translated versions, they could easily make the steam version, that you can switch to each other language. Ok, you would have to download some GB then.

Yeah, you kinda describe the german Half-Life version, soldiers were robots and sometimes were laying in a bloodpool, realistic right? Bleeding robots and the scientist sat down when you shot them, hilarious kinda.

Also hope it will be just a option for subtitles and nothing more, i really like to play my games in english, the german voice acting is mostly really medicore or takle away from the original joke intended in it's original language, because it just sounds so diffrent.

Sidenote: I approve of that avatar, great story.

I wonder how many other folks are now concerned. Germany didn't find anything worth censoring?

This scares the hell out of me. While I understand and that you do not want a crappy cut German version of the game.

I am very VERY worried they watered down the entire game to get it past your rediculous ratings board.


I was going to make a topic about this terrible news. Unless there has been some 180 turn in German ratings something just doesn't add up.

I dont see how this can be viewed as anything but bad news.

According to usk's site they will refuse rating for the following:


1)game contents which legitimise acts of violence in everyday life and suggest parallels with reality;

(Daily life in the wasteland is wandering around killing random people and looting them to make money)

2)the imparting of the idea that vigilante justice is an acceptable method of achieving justice;

(Fallout 3 & New Vegas were centered around seeking revenge)

3)the predominance within game play of drastically staged and graphically detailed acts of violence against humanlike game characters;

(Raider/ super mutant dens & the bloody mess perk)

4)the domination of violent game tasks over all other game elements;

(Killing and looting bodies is the majority of gameplay)

5)the concept that the game can only be brought to a successful conclusion if game characters not presented as opponents are eliminated;

(Umm nuking Megaton anyone?)

6)the imparting of war fervour and the explicit trivialisation of the consequences of violence.

(Liberty prime IS war fervor, 3 dog jokes about all the folks you kill, NCR, Enclave,Brotherhood all are about promoting war despite any minor consequences)
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I dont know about anyone else here but each and every one of these things are an intricate part of the fallout experience.

Either the ratings board is lying about requirements or everyone is getting a crappy version of the game.

I have a bit of faith that BGS wouldn't kill their own game but im still a bit concerned.

They'd also have to redo the animation for all dialogue sequences, in addition to the logistics of Bethesda writing the dialogue in 4 other languages, requiring people fluent enough in each language to make sure that the colloquialisms and idioms are replaced for local equivalents.

Not to mention casting everyone and recording the lines, particularly finding someone who has a voice that fits the character when the culture of that language stylizes that kind of character with an entirely different pattern of speech.

There was an http://articles.latimes.com/2014/jan/24/entertainment/la-et-mn-frozen-how-disney-makes-a-musical-in-41-languages-20140124 about the internationalization process for Disney's Frozen that goes into the difficulty of all of this.

I doubt Germany is such a huge market for Fallout that Bethesda would work the game from the ground up to ensure it could get through their ratings board uncensored.

Ive only bought 2 games since moving to Germany: GTA V and The Witcher 3.

Both have things far more unpleasant than FO3's cartoon violence.

It'll be fine.

I don't know how you come to this, but they even mentioned that they will try to get Fallout 4 uncensored here and apparently they did (at least i hope), im pretty sure we're one of the bigger market here.

Maybe I should have been more specific. I meant that Germany isn't such a huge market for Fallout that the game would be specifically built to ensure it wouldn't be censored there, even if that meant losing things that they've included in the past in other territories. I don't think Fallout is designed specifically with the German market, and its ratings board, in mind. I think its designed with the American market and the ESRB in mind. You may be a large market, I have no idea, but I don't think that you're a big enough market that your ratings board dictates the game's overall development and creative decisions. I don't think anyone went "We better not do X because the USK won't approve our game."

Don't worry, the German rating systems is much easier going than back in the days. Most of the horror stories about German censoring were back when there were discussions about videogames causing mass shootings. And since that's been thoroughly proven wrong the rating system is pretty much as lax as every other rating system. The only exception being nazi symbolry, but i don't think that's a thing in the Fallout games.

Want prove? GTA 5 has been uncut in Germany, which features a scene were you brutally and graphically torture a person. MGS 5: Ground Zeroes was uncut in Germany, which features a scene were an underage girl gets cut open and rummaged around in her insides. All in nice HD graphics. Phantom Pain is also uncut though i don't know about any grimy scenes in that just yet.

Witcher 3 was also uncut with it's fair shair of violence.

And last but not least Fallout: New Vegas was uncut in Germany too.

Or take a look at Soldier of Fortune:

Part 1: Every violance effects has been removed. The name of real cities has been changed to make it more fictional. It was from no use, even the censored version had been indexed here.

Part 2: Same as Part 1, but all humans has been changed to androids and it got a new background story, that all humans has been replaced by androids. Well, the game got a USK18.

Another example. C&C Red Alert:

Even, that the soldiers where so tiny and difficult to see, they had been replaced trough robots aswell.

PS: Thx for the approve of the avatar. Normaly i use my own OC stallion avatar, but because Littlepip is Fallout related, i decided to use her in the official Bethesda forum as avatar.

A 180 turn is a really good discription from what happend. Fallout: New Vegas was nearly fully uncut in the Ultimate edition. Only one picture was missing. Good possible, that it simply has been forgotten.

The Evil Within: I have it in the german version and it has a 100% uncut on it. And yes, i would discripe it as bloodbath. Something like this would have never been shown in the past.

Mortal Kombat X: How already mentioned, it got a uncut and USK18 aswell. And the finishing moves are still in.

For the points, i think, we can now see it more as possibilities, that the game could be indexed or get a higher rating. Without anything of it, the game wouldn't have any reason to be cut.

Aswell, Fallout 4 is more a RPG. Yes, you can fight a lot in it, but its not the primary. How mentioned, you can avoid many of the fights aswell. So fighting is more expedient.

Ok, why Mortal Kombat X was not indexed was a surprise. There where instances in germany, who wanted to index it. But the responsible authority saw no reason to index it, so the way was free for a USK18. I personally bought the PEGI version (I like the actors, like Lord Raiden and aswell the movies. So i tought i try the game. Haven't reckoned, that the game would be uncut in the USK version aswell.)

Considering the new Doom, i would be surprised, if it would come uncut and not indexed, because shooting and violence is the primary aspect of the game. But well, i would have said the same for Mortal Kombat X aswell. So possible i am wrong again.

PS: But yes, if only one swastika shows up, you can be sure, that the game will be indexed in a second.

That was never the point to beginn with, i know of no publisher that tries to tune down their game, so it can go through the raiting boards, of let's say Australia or Germany. I was talking about actually cutting stuff for those said boards, so it would get through and that's what im scared of here. They said 100% Uncut, but im never sure that it is truly what it means.

You might want to take a closer look at what I was quoting.

Emphasis mine.

The language suggests a fear that all versions of Fallout 4 would be the same as a German version designed to not upset the censors, and as such would be lacking in content that historically has been part of the game in other territories. A fear I find ridiculous.

I remember that they recalled C&C Generals, because of the Iraq war stuff etc. and the mentioning of a real terrorist group, it was even on the news here. I of course didn't and don't got me the cut one with the robots and [censored].

They forgot a picture in NV? I don't know how you can forget a picture there, i mean, they just need to use their english original and bring it out with the translation of the cut version and done, shouldn't have been such a big deal with Steam and so on, maybe with the consoles though.

The swastika thing is silly in my opinion, but thats a diffrent topic, but i remember the latest Wolfenstein, before New Order, that one got of course censored with violence and Nazi stuff, but there was later a huge swastika discovered on some ground and it got pulled out of every store etc and put on the index, it was just a oversight of them and to be honest, i never saw it.

Im maybe just too suspicious about this uncut thing, they said it would be 100% Uncut and the average person would say i can trust that statement that the german version will be the same like the US version, just with the option to play it in german, but...yeah.

I would still love to see the USK getting disbanded at some time, but that may never happen, every publisher here knows that they don't need to bother turning in a copy with Nazi stuff, but what bothers most is the possibility of haveing to cut stuff, i would really wish we would stop that, to me games are a form of art and should be free of censoreing.

Why? Im pretty sure you talked about developers tuneing down their games in violence to beginn with, because they've our market in mind even when they're a US developer and just bring out a version that is for everyone low on violence.

Im pretty sure i got what you meant, but it probably came through how it was supposed to.

I have no idea what the rating system in germany is like.. but usually content is cut so that the game makers can sell the game to a wider audience. Meaning that they'll trim it down to be rated for teens or whatever. Saying they are releasing it uncut probably means that it will have something equal to an advlts Only rating and venders will be required to card to sell the game.

No, the thing is, here maybe won't get a 18+ raiting, because of certain stuff you see, so it may happen that your game can only be sold if people ask the store about it or maybe gets put on the index here and you're not allowed to sell it at all. The thing here i mean, is about it getting cut to actually get a 18+ raiting, because they demanded it for this raiting or wouldn't get it, but Bethesda did say they want to try to get it uncut through our raiting board and announced 100% Uncut, im just not sure if it will truly be like this, there were games in the past that claimed the same, but weren't actually fully uncut in the end and if you take it to some extreme, it would be false advertisment too, because 100% uncut here is something you use to advertise, since that isn't something given here.

...

For the reasons that were elaborated on in the post you just quoted, but omitted and seemingly completely ignored when you quoted me. You seem to think I've been saying the opposite of what I've been saying. To reiterate:

Someone posted something that suggested they were afraid that the fact that Germany was getting a 100% Uncut version of Fallout 4 didn't mean that Germany was getting the same version of Fallout 4 that would get an M rating from the ESRB here in the US, but that the US would be getting the same version that would pass Germany's censorship process. Germany would be getting an uncensored game in name only, because it would be tailored to pass their review board. In effect, everyone would be getting a sanitized version of Fallout 4, and because the toned down version was being sold everywhere, it could be marketed as "uncut" in Germany.

I find that idea to be silly. I find it far more likely that Germany will be getting the same version as the United States. I don't think the US version will be "watered down" to quote the person I quoted in my first post in this thread to suit German censor boards.

That Fallout 4 could have been toned down to get a USK18 in germany, is indeed a silly idea. We saw the videos of the combat system and it looked bloody enough. So exploding bodies, etc. are still in. Yust that they are allowed in the german version aswell.

Ok, admitted. I am happy for a uncut version not because of the whole blood thing, more that it won't be mutilated like Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas.

1. I remember, that enemies where way stronger in the german version, because you hasn't been able to cripple them. I used a blood patch and noticed it immediately. Without, the deadclaws where extremly dangerous. They where running for you and attacking in full strength, until they where dead. With blood patch, you crippled the legs and they where way slower and if you shoot the arms, they where weaker aswell. Or you shoot the heat and they where gone. By more as one, it was really a problem.

2. The NVSE. The international version wasn't working for the german version. Okay, there had been a german version of it aswell, but normaly way behind the version of the international one and not supported so well. Using larger mods was a problem. Especially, if they need the NVSE. A lot of them haven't worked at all.

The blood patch was a bit of a relief, but i had to update the patch, all time a patch came out. Aswell the game was incredible instable then, crashing all time. So not to much fun. After the Ultimate version was released completly uncensored, i even bought the game a second time (as it was reduced). It changed everything. Everything was working fine then and without problems.

Thats the real reason i am very happy, to get a uncut version of Fallout 4 now. No balancing problems and tools like the script extender and the mods would work without problems.

So, to explain how the rating, censoring etc. system in germany works (I actually have read a bit into it again, to have it in mind again, how it really works):

USK: The USK wont go active, without the publisher sending a copy of it in. Then the game is tested and if it isn't to extreme (extreme glorifying violence, violence as the main part of the game, or hazardous for the development of somebody, illegal content [see swastika]), then it gets a USK approval. If the USK won't give the game a approval, the BPjM takes over. Not automaticly, but its very common, that some instance would send it to the BPjM then. When the game gets a USK approval, it normaly can't be indexed anymore.

The USK isn't doing the cuts aswell. They are telling, why a game can't pass the test and the publisher can send a censored version in, for a better aproval. Often, the german version was even censored by the developer before send the game in. So the USK haven't even seen the uncut version. If i remember correctly, Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas was even censored before send to the USK. Could of course be wrong, but it was at least by NW the case. Then the Ultimate version was send in as uncut version and got to their surprise aswell a USK18.

One of the reason, that Bethesda has become brave with sending uncut versions in (The Evil Within, Fallout 4). And how it seems, they are very successful. Ok, we still have to wait for Doom.

BPjM: The BPjM is the organisation who is responsible for indexing the game. The BPjM can go active in many cases. The USK can call it, but it can be called by other organisations aswell. In fact, the BPjM would go active, even when the publisher won't send it in. So a extreme game, not going to the USK, would still go to the BPjM most likely. The BPjM is checking the game by themselfs. Then they can index the game, or refuse the indexing, when they don't think, its to extreme. Such a game is automaticly cleared to get a USK approval then. Even when the USK refused it first time. So it can be send to the USK (again) and will automaticly get a USK18.

Having a USK approval means, you can make advertising for the game, aswell in TV (independent from the accepted age) and the retail version can be displayed in the stores.

If a game fails the BPjM check, it will be indexed and there are 2 lists. List A and List B:

List A: Is the most used list and means, that the game can't be advertised (even a test in a magazine applies as advertising, even when the test is horrible), it can't be displayed open. Its allowed to sell the game, by asking directly for the game and the buyer is an advlt. Happens rarely, because people looking for the game would most likely buy it on Amazon as PEGI version, and not in a store. So the game is normaly not sold in shops.

List B: Here we are going in the more criminal area. It is still allowed to buy the game, but its not allowed to sell it in germany. Thats very common in germany, that you aren't allowed to distribute, but allowed to buy something. You can buy the game, but because its officially not allowed to sell it to you, the customs can retain it.

Well, nothing Bethesda has to care for by Fallout 4. And i am very confident, that the TV advertising will start very soon.

BTW. If somebody want to know, why Mortal Kombat X wasn't indexed:

Mortal Kombat X was send to the BPjM. They refused the indexing, then the game came to the USK and got its 18 approval. The game hasn't even been by the USK before, because Warner tought, they won't get it without indexing one way or another. Of course they sended it to the USK after they heard from the non indexing, to get their USk18.

So why hasn't it been index? The answer is: It was to brutal. Yes, the high brutality factor was to unrealistic for indexing. Thats the official statement from the BPjM. Because of this, the game is now with USK18. So the chances for Doom aren't as bad, if Bethesda makes it brutal enough.

Aswell, one one official statement for the more and more brutal games who got through the BPjM is, that because the technology advance more and more and the graphics is more and more realistic, it let's less room for speculation and you can't associate it with the reality so well anymore.

(Source: https://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gamestar.de%2Fspiele%2Fmortal-kombat-x%2Fartikel%2Fmortal_kombat_x%2C51150%2C3234010.html)

https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfl1/v/t1.0-9/11954619_522420581241739_6225772078249258298_n.jpg?oh=a0ee64de9ebd8d48268a0d868cfaae1a&oe=5661DD90

This was the text posted with it on Facebook.

"Es ist offiziell: #Fallout4 erscheint 100% ungeschnitten am 10.11.2015 in Deutschland, ?sterreich und der Schweiz!"

Which roughly translates to: "It is offical: #Fallout4 releases 100% uncut on 10.11.2015 in Germany, Austria and the Switzerland!"