Is broken steel therefor his resurrection?

Also, doesn't the allegory lose all of its impact when you realize that there was never the possibility to die for humanity?

I loved all the FO games and know you can't compare one location in a game with another. Fo1 it seems there is no problem with radiation, but you go to Adytum and the people are saying,"I hope the rain isn't glowing today." In Van Buren, the Reservation had very high levels of radiation. You find the same in FONV where the bombs actually fell. Have they changed some of the things we find in the other games, sure. GECK is a terraforming device now. But that's what you would have had if BOS Tactics 2 was made and if the Fallout Movie would have been made. Fallout 3, to me, plays like FO1 and that is what Beth stated they wanted to happen. My main concern now... Will FO follow the same path as TES. With the crafting and the Perk tree we see in FO4, which is what they did with Skyrim, will we see a Fallout Online next. So what I'm saying is, you had the same major changes in Skyrim that we are going to see in Fallout 4. Will the trend continue and a Fallout online be next?

1. Irrelevant. They are wastelanders, so their parents were also wastelanders, as were there parents, etc. Mutation(whatever canon you want to believe, radiation or Wild FEV) is passed down from generation to generation, thus the LW also carries those genes.

2. Eden lies though IIRC, saying the LW would not die, and gives shady information. I don't think the LW thinks they would die, which is dumb.

3. Not what was planned and is a split second decision choice/sacrifice, which is different.

I guess so.

Does the story of Jesus's death lose all of its impact when you know beforehand that he rises several days later, thus making his "death" kinda meaningless? Not IMO. Most people go into stories knowing the main character, or at least the main character's friends, are seemingly gong to die at least once, or even several times, throughout the story, only to appear later alive. Does that take away from the emotional impact of them seemingly dying then? In most cases no, because people are usually far too focused on the now to think about the later.

1. And all people carry some amount of mutation due to natural processes. FEV kills all non-pure humans, but there is no such thing as a totally genetically pure human, even staying indoors for generation can cause its own mutations. Obviously some amount of mutation would have to be acceptable to the FEV, or else even The Enclave would get killed. The question is, does the LW posses so little mutation as to be considered human enough for the FEV?
2. Eden does not lie, he simply doesn't know the truth. Nothing suggests he was lying, which is defined by intentional deceit, to the LW when he said the LW wouldn't die. He simply doesn't know the full history behind the LW's birth, and thinks the LW is just some kid from a Vault. And what the LW thinks is up to you, as Bethesda games are defined by the ideal that you are the character. If that is an acceptable way to do RPGs is another debate.

3. It doesn't matter if it was planned or not, the fact that you can make the choice to "die" for others at all shows that the LW does accept that's being a valid solution to a problem.

Eden days that it's likely the LW is immune due to having come from Vault 101. Eden may not actually know that the LW isn't a pure-strain human. It's not so much a lie as it is a mistaken conclusion.

1. And again, irrelevant. If the FEV is going to kill wastelanders, which it is going to do, and thus the fact LW parents, and their parents, and their parents, were wastelanders, and have passed the same "mutation" that all the other wastelanders are also going to die because of, then the LW is going to die.

2. Hasn't the Enclave and Eden been monitoring the situation and know about PP for the past couple decades, and thus probably have known that James(the LW father) was the original scientist, and thus not a VD. I mean they do swoop in right at that exact moment, so it sure seems like they knew about it. If PP was some big secret, seems pretty odd for ye old Enclave to swoop in like they did, sooo it sure seems like they put 2 and 2 together and know that the LW was not a real VD.

3. Dying for others and dying for others and committing mass murder are not the same thing as the LW thinking their death is a valid solution.

1. How is everyone having some mutation, meaning the FEV has to allow some mutation, and meaning the LW wouldn't know if they have enough mutation to be killed or not, not relevant?

2. Its never stated how long the Enclave has been monitoring PP. Given that Autumn didn't know who James was, and asked for the project lead to step forward when he tried to take control of PP, it obviously wasn't long enough to know that, thus making it unlikely Eden would know your history. Everyone in the wasteland knew of PP, its kinda hard to miss all the pipes. Knowing who was involved, and who their kids are, is another matter entirely.

3. Its literally the same thing. It's no different then if you had to die to help your side win the Mojave, be it a democracy, a dictatorship, an autocray, or an independent state. You are basically arguing that The Courier wouldn't think dying to save the Mojave was a valid solution, despite already putting their live on the line in several of the missions each faction gives you. If the any of the game's player characters didn't feel like it was worth dying for, the MQ would have never happened n the first place.

I mostly meant that it was a good way to show just how severe radiation was in the C.W; even the main character was not safe from the effects.

I have played every Fallout game in the series, Fallout 2 being my favorite, Fallout Tactics after that, then New Vegas, and Fallout 3 being my least favorite. Fallout 3 is still a good game, its not the best Bethesda game, but its not horrible.

Bethesda's best game for me by far was Morrowind. That doesn't mean Skyrim or Oblivion was bad though, Skyrim is my 2nd favorite Bethesda game, I have over 600 hours logged into Steam with Skyrim.

The thing is their are new games for people that do not like Bethesda games, they are called Divinity Original Sin, Pillars of Eternity, Wasteland, Wasteland 2, etc.

While in my opinion Bethesda's writing and story has taken a slight slant down hill since Morrowind with their new games, they are still great games. Fallout 4 could have a crap story, its going to be a Fallout playground with a lot of fun [censored] to do, but I am optimistic for a good story in the game.

1. Dude. CLEARLY wastelanders are targetted to be killed by the modified FEV. The LW lineage is ALL WASTELANDERS. There is no question if the LW has enough mutation to be killed. Hence, questioning it is irrelevant. The Enclave having some kind of mutation, which is dubious argument(and nothing at all like mutation that occurs, from again, whatever is canon, radiation or Wild FEV) is nothing like what generations of wastelanders have passed down to them. Otherwise it isn't a very good solution, as all kinds of "non pure" humans would end up living. Just how hard is it for you to see you made a mistake, and that the LW has generations(200 years worth) of passed on mutations from his/her ancestors, and has wastelander blood, just like every other wastelander who is targeted to die from the modified FEV.

2. They monitoring it good enough to know exactly when to show up, or is it just some coincidence?

3. Sacrificing yourself and sacrificing yourself AND committing MASS MURDER are not the same thing.

The Burned Game was created by Interplay but it wasn't created by the same Interplay/People that created Fallout, Fallout 2 and had approved of Fallout Tactics. Interplay was Taken over by a French Company and with that, a new President. Brian Fargo was replaced by Herve Caen. Herve Caen was the one who thought The Burned Game was the future and he was the one who cancelled Fallout 3 aka Van Buren. He was the one who pretty much bankrupted Interplay which forced them to sell the rights to Fallout in order to keep their lights on.

Note I am not defending that persons comments about Fallout I just noticed your post and how you missed some factoids yourself.

Fallout Tactics also has a real time mode so it isn't just a "turned based strategy" and I would suggest people play the game in real time.

1. We literally don't know that at all, all we know is that the LW's parents were. For all we know their parents could have come from a Vault up north, down south, over in the Midwest. Your entire argument is based on assumptions.

2. It literally takes no effort at all to notice when a power grid comes online, especially in a post war world where basically no one is using actual power grids. They do have those eyebots everywhere in case you forgot. And, again, that doesn't mean they had been monitoring it since James started it 20 years ago. You are aware not all points in time are the same point? I honestly don't why this is so hard for you to get your head around. James makes the purifier -> project fails -> he goes into the vault with you -> sometime later the Enclave start watching it to see if its creators would come back and try again and/or to make sure no one tries to start it up besides them.

3. Again, not really. To people like Hitler, Stalin, Richardson, Eden, possibly the L.W., both of those are the same thing. Saving the world does mean mass murder to plenty of people throughout history, and many of them would die to see their plans come to fruition. You have a very narrow mindset on how people are able to think.

No, no, I said 'IP Holder', not developer/publisher. I know all about what happened at Interplay and the results of Herve Caen's inability to run a company, but most people do tend not to differentiate between 'old' Interplay and the entity that calls itself entity now.

Heck, I remember during the while Fallout: Online legal business and people like that saying they hoped Interplay won and got the rights back so they could make a 'proper' Fallout.

True a lot of people don't seem to know that. The Interplay of today isn't the same that created Fallout. So I can see why you wonder what the guy's views on the Burned Game would be, if he knows that or not.

1. I would say by 2150 and later, people being descendants of VD who have JUST left a Vault, is pretty damn slim. I would say 99% of Vaults were long opened by then, a Vault like 101 is rare. Regardless, it doesn't matter. Go ahead and think that the LW grandparents were both VD, I don't care.

3. Yeah, it fits your argument if the LW is like a "Hitler or Stalin". LMAO. Yep, fanatics, psychos, paranoid, delusional, megalomaniacs would think mass murder and killing yourself is the same thing. lmao. LMAO. Seeing how it is safe to say the LW is not like a "Hitler or Stalin" lmao, I think it is safe to assume the LW would not consider self sacrifice AND mass murder the same. LOL. That had to be one of the funniest thing I have read on the board in a lonnnnnnnnng time. Thank you. I almost had tears in my eyes. "Well Hitler would think it the same!!!" .... LOL.

Say, that's right! Thanks for the correction!

True, BGS doesn't do good mechanics. That is why overhaul mods are the most popular mods after bug fix and UI fix mods. They don't do those good either

Don't know about "true Fallout", i too find those old ones boring. But that goes for all 20+ year old games i have no personal history with

1. I don't think they were , I was just offering up the possibility since its unknown.

2. That's not what I said at all, I really don't understand how you can misunderstand something so simple.

My point is your argument may hold water if the LW was say, the leader of the Enclave, or a long standing member of the Enclave. But the LW is not the leader of the Enclave. Hence, the option given to the LW is to either be a savior, or go completely psycho, for no ideological reason, and just mass murder everyone, for someone else's ideology. That was my original point. There is no motivation for the LW to go down this path, which would have also killed him/her self along with it. Murder every single person you have met on your adventures, all for what a computer asks you to do who you just met and whose faction killed your dad and dad's friends at PP. The only thing it became was a "Good" vs "pure evil" choice, which was my secondary point about them not being the same. I wasn't speaking of the Action, but the morality. Which is why I lol so hard, because you point to the evil folk that would be cool with this, but of course, are also leaders of said factions and would do anything for said faction.

Another area where your argument may have held water is if you could have joined the Enclave in the game proper, as you used NV as an example, but the big difference being you COULD join said factions in NV, giving you a potential reason(character motivation) to thus sacrifice yourself for their "cause". There is zero motivation in FO 3 to do said action, it just good v evil choice, and dumb evil I would say seeing how you would be the pawn of all pawns.

I find that people who hate on Bethesda's-style Fallout or people who hate on Interplay-style Fallout don't realize that those games are different beasts all-together and must be experienced and thought about differently. I started the Fallout series as a Fallout 3 baby and I fell in love with the game, New Vegas only solidified my love for the universe, giving me the motivation to return to the cradle of apocalyptic civilization in New California. My first experience with Fallout was very different from Fallout 3, I was always a big fan of top-down RPG's and I really appreciated the detail put into atmosphere and story, the music in particular had a much larger impact on me then it did in Bethesda's/Obsidian games for some reason. The story felt stronger, the characters were more interesting and the big, bad enemies actually felt like hard-to-beat bosses rather than Fallout 3 or NV where they were simply just stronger NPC's. Fallout 2 exceeded that and even trumped my love for Fallout 3 and it remains my second favourite Fallout game (behind New Vegas) just because it was a massive improvement to Fallout in almost every single way and the fact that it was one of the most memorable final bosses for me ever *and I played Fallout 2 past my teens* Interplay's

The companies should not be judged by the same merits as they have fundamentally different views on how the game should work. I personally do prefer the Bethesda-style Fallout over Interplay since I do honestly think it's a better fit as a sandbox style game. I do think that Interplay's Fallout games are stronger in some areas but I believe that's because their focus was more on those aspects while Bethesda's was more game-play/world-building oriented.

With Fallout 4 just days away, I cannot wait to play it and discuss it with you all!

^This^ essentially.

I enjoyed 1, 2, 3 and NV.

Besides that, I often find people who find Beth's games shallow quite shallow themselves.

The depth is there, there's plenty of lore and backstories involved. It's true that Beth's story telling is often not the greatest but in a sense that weakness is part of the attraction to their games. It enhances the core essence of their games, which is to make your own story, do whatever like, in an immersive setting.

Compared to the Witcher 3 for example, which imho makes Fallout 1 and 2 look bleak and bland, that game has some of the best story telling I've ever seen in an open world setting. But the quality of that storytelling makes me roleplay within that story. It's less about roleplaying my own story, my own curiosity and creativity. I love both approaches. I love a good story and I love making my own story. In both cases I'd say immersion is the key.

There is plenty of lore and backstories in TES games but not so much in Fallout 3.

Is much as I used to like to dis on GURPS ..... I still consider that line to be little more than one of those "yah take your ball and go home we will have fun our own way" comments over SJG yanking the chain on there right to use GURPs back then.

4th Ed. GURPS is fantastic.

You can't argue with people who don't even know why the first edition was simplified. They don't even know it was heavily speech based and aimed at using multiple skills for conversation.

Funny how it from from GURPS first edition to current times though. Massive focus on speech to well.. Not so much focus on it let alone story.