QFT

You're assuming that the guy in New Reno was indeed the one who invented Jet. As a crook, he might have just taken credit for it. But let's assume that you're right, and that he did invent it - Jet is a post-war product. Well, then have in mind that Doctor Braun could very well be entering and exiting his simulator, and dealing with the outside world. Just because the robots are good at keeing the vault clean and tidy, doesn't mean that the vault is exclusively pre-war.

Actually, there's nothing to suggest Braun ever left his pod and in any case, 200 years of inactivity would have atrophied his body to the point he wouldn't have been mobile at all.

On the other hand, considering how often the Vault was breached (At least three times) It's possible that the Vault could've been accessed by those who may not have responded well to the droids and it's their property that's in the Vault.

As for Jet, we have to options really.

1)It was just added to the loot lists with concern for where it became availiable.

2)It was pre-war developed (Which is how it came to be in pre-war locations) and the New Reno guy found a way to substitute some of the harder to obtain ingredients with those more readily availiable and then just claimed credit for the whole thing.

Yeah I would put my money on that second one. It could have been a slip-up at Bethesda, but I think they're fairly tight when it comes to things like that.

It's possible that methamphetamine was stored during pre-war times in the canisters later used to store Jet, and the player confuses the two drugs - which are alike.

There was no Jet on the West Coast at all before Myron. The narrator in Myron's ending says that Myron invented it. The devs themselves say it in the Fallout Bible. What further proof do you need? On the other side, you just have screwed up loot tables.

Going yo have to agree with you, and say screwed up loot tables would best explain it.

Assuming they were screwed up (In the actual sense of a mistake) Bethesda may not have felt it reasonable for new players to know about Jet and where it came from.

Yeah... it's pretty much unquestionable that Myron invented Jet. He goes into a pretty lengthy description of it's history, development, how he was hired to make it, the discoveries that led him to Jet - pretty much everything you'd ever want to know about Jet. You can even get him to work with you in coming up with an cure for Jet addiction (as the original draw to the drug was that it was the one drug in the Wastes that you couldn't ever kick.) I mean... he's Myron baby!

I don't think it's all that unrealistic that someone could have reverse-engineered Jet, and that there's some mysterious factory outside of DC that's pumping it out by the truckload. My only problem is that Bethesda, for all their touted interest in building games with lots of lore, didn't see fit to provide any mention of how it got there.

What's the Brotherhood doing in DC? They explain that.

Why is the Enclave there? Explained as well (maybe not as to how they're still around - again, another rationalization with no attempt on the behalf of Bethesda to supply the background, but still... there's at least some attempt.)

Want to know why Harold is in DC? You can find that out.

Why if there FEV in Vault 87? (Well, apparently there's a terminal that explains it all, only you can't get to it in the game. But okay, they at least get partial credit, and maybe that was just an oversight - they're only human, after all.)

But Jet? No, you just have to take their word for it. It's not so much that it's in the game; as that if they decided it just had to be there - then why not go the extra step and put some background info on it? It kind of feels like that "missing reel" segment from Robert Rodriquez's Planet Terror, only you know, not intentional...

"Oh no no!" says Todd Howard, "we have to put Jet in the game. It's just got to be in there, no two ways about it. Oh, what's it doing there? Oh no, we can't explain that, Jet is where I draw the line, buddy!"

Jet being in FO3 is not that much of an inconsistency, but it being in pre-war locations is.

yeah, they should have came up with a new kind of AP drug.

Or use this one:

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Afterburner_Gum

That too

Jet is easily transportable and addictive and has a valuable benefit for the user. I can see it being a useful trade commodity and it getting around quite a bit. But I agree, it would be nice to at least try to see where the Jet is comming from and do something about it if I wanted to.

Fallout 3 is about as canon as Fallout Tactics, in that "everything that makes sense is canon, everything that doesn't isn't"

It's very clearly explained in the game. Navarro base was left unhurt by Oil Rig explosion, and the survivors were called to D.C. by Eden.
A terminal in Grayditch, used by a former Enclave tech, mentions camp Navarro and how he abandoned the place, thus it was still intact after FO2.

The Enclave is also a lot lesser in numbers than back in California, and the lack of civilian wing makes that only the few soldiers in the mainland survived the events, while all the noncombatants died in the Rig.

Colonel Autumn also hints to their defeat in California and why they moved to D.C., and so does Eden while he is telling about the big picture.



I don't think Mr. Howard is such an incompetent idiot as you make him look like. Unless your source on that quote is reliable, it's just a childlish insult or "rationalization" as you'd put it.

Sure , but it just cannot explain this

http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/8931/fallout3200906201236236.jpg


And definitely not this

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/8603/fallout3200906201243015.jpg




And if you just thought : "Ok, Maybe the blast came from the right and that tall concrete building took most of the impact before it came down and protected the smaller brick house" (Like i did) ...

.....you walk a bit to the left and find another concrete building right next to it that was totally pulverised.

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/3529/fallout3200906201243386.jpg


Really, this just does not work no matter how much fantasy one possesses. Its clearly a level design screw up multiplied throughout Fallout 3 that is hard to understand when looking at all the passion and detail the put into other aspects of the game.

I for one, dont like it and i hope they will do better in New Vegas

Are you kidding? The Enclave is everywhere in the Capital Wasteland, and there's no way that the survivors of Navarro could have that many troops unless they started recruiting Wastelanders (which would be out of character for them).

Buildings that are damaged usually fall apart, especially 200 years without repairs and maintenance. And mini nukes could still shred building to nothing. Heck, and regular conventional bomb can easily do that too.

They have merely a total of ~60 soldiers already patrolling and some ~40 dropped by Vertibirds.
In the Oil Rig, there are several levels filled with soldiers, while the brief adventure in Raven Rock will include some up to 20-25 soldiers and no civilians except Anna Holt.


You must remember, though, that Navarro did recruit locals. The player character for instance can "join" the Enclave although it will still be hostile to him/her outside the base.

Add that 20-25 soldiers in Raven Rock to the 101 from patrols and you've got 121-126 soldiers (most of which clearly have replacements)... that's a lot of soldiers for a post-apocalyptic military. Also, you're not taking Broken Steel into account and there's a lot of Enclave members in that DLC as well.



I wouldn't be so sure most Navarro NPCs think you came from the Oil Rig, and what's his face... the guy who's guarding the gas station remarks that it's very strange for a tribal to be in the Enclave.

Should you just be able to spare the time, you can slaughter thousands of Enclave soldiers in around Navarro.



That doesn't change it. The Brotherhood guy says that they are short on manpower and are recruiting locals while replacing them when Oil Rig can spare resources. That means the Enclave is recruiting.
Chris, the guy outside Navarro, is also a local. One of his battle quotes is "The Enclave is going to promote me for killing you!" thus marking that he's an outsider.

No, it means that the Enclave are willing to use outsiders for Labour. It is not the same as recruiting into the enclave


No, I don't think that proves what you think it does. Folks inside the Enclave military have ranks, and do get promoted.

You have to remember that the in-game locations in FO1 and 2 are just somewhat abstract representations of these locations. The number of characters in-game does not correspond to the actual population.

Plus, some Oil Rig personnel could have managed to escape in vertibirds, and there might have been some smaller outposts aside from Navarro.

I have to disagree with that, they're just games, none of the places are real, so what I see in game is what I consider canon.



Almost every NPC at the base points out that they haven't heard of any other bases on the mainland besides Navarro, and I believe the President says that they only have that base so that they can refuel their Vertibirds.



Point taken, but who actually does that?



We're talking about soldiers and officers, not mechanics and slaves. Essentially all Enclave "members" who are outsiders are slaves and cheap labor. Keep in mind that the Enclave is behind a lot of the slave and drug trade in Fallout 2.