Yeah, thats propably what happened.



I would had put the FEV into the underground remains of a military research facility like the one with the VR simulation in Operation Anchorage (maybe even under Enclave control) and let the remains of the Master's army find out about that and occupy that place.

There was just a sample of FEV stored there for study and demonstration purposes and the Enclave found it and turned the place into new Vats and also produced their new genetic cleansing version there.


A especially intelligent Supermutant like Fawkes would had become sort of a new Master bend on making the original master's vision finally become true.

So, are you saying there can be no splinter factions in FO? Well, good bye Enclave, splinter/shadow faction of the US gov. Also, 50S SCI-FI!

SM Plan is the Master's old plan. Your way was not the canon way.


They were never just eggs. Also, right from the Vault:

Both the Brotherhood of Steel and the Shi have come into contact with bodies of alien life forms or their spaceships, as did the pre-War United States government, which kept its alien specimens mostly in Area 51, if you believe in that sort of thing. By extension the Enclave and Brotherhood Outcasts also have access to alien technology; Alien Power Cells can be found at Fort Independence and in the armory of the Enclave's Mobile Base Crawler.

Now, will everyone SHUT UP about aliens not being canon.

Actually I think they did that so us oldies wouldn't be alienated completely due to the lack of any recurring elements from the past two games. New players can just play the original games to be introduced to the setting, if they don't care... then it's their loss. :shrug: This backfired though, as most fans were disappointed by Bethesda's staggering lack of originality.



If Bethesda's new factions are stupid then sure, new doesn't automatically equate good just like old doesn't automatically equate good. I didn't like all of the factions in Fallout and Fallout 2 either, particularly the mentally deficient Followers of the Apocalypse, and the Hubogoblists or whatever the heck those Scientologist wannabes were called. I can't really form an opinion on the Commonwealth as we don't really have any information on them except that there's an institute there.

Why do i have a certain feeling that the plotline surrounding the Institute will be inspired by the movies "Logan's Run" and "THX 1138" ?

Both are excellent cult movies by the way.


There was always lots of sci-Fi , doomsday movie influence in the Fallout series. For instance The "Boulder Dome" from the cancelled Van Buren was definitely inspired by the Wildfire base from "The Andromeda Strain". Another cult classic :tops: (The original from 1970 , not that shallow remake of course)

Supposedly. Except these SMs don't have the intelligence of the Master driving them onward. Oh, sure, they have "masters" and even "overlords", but the only intelligent mutie we've seen in FO3 is Fawkes, and he was imprisoned precisely because he's intelligent. Although my pet theory is that Overlords are really the head honchos, and that they're actually a lot more intelligent than other muties, seeing as how they use energy weapons and such. But that's neither here nor there.

The issue here is that in FO1, the plan was executed a lot more effectively. The muties had the master to give them orders and direct them, and they were able to act with quite a bit more subtlety than "omnomnom" and "diiiip!", unlike the muties here. Here it seems to be a matter of all the mutants getting together and saying "WE NEED MOAR OF US!" Which isn't, obviously, conducive to a military force, much less one that can beat a group like the Brotherhood or, worse, the Enclave.

If we saw what was actually directing the muties, things might have been different. 'Course, I'm having trouble thinking what could be directing them without ending up being a ripoff of the master. The "muties are actually remnants of the master's army who fled east" retcon would make a lot of sense. Just say that a Lou-like mutie is leading them in hopes that they'll find more FEV and/or fix their sterility. It's a lot more compelling than "eat, dip, eat!" like the current muties.

Also, there should still be an explanation for how Jet, a postwar drug, got all the way over to the East. And became so prevalent that it can be found even in medicine cabinets that haven't been touched since the war. Even a simple "Myron only rediscovered the prewar formula for Jet and added his own improvements/changes based on available resources" would work for me.

According to the official guide, the bigger and stronger the mutant gets, the dumber he becomes. But the dumb and strong ones are also the head honchos.



What's wrong with the Followers of the Apocalypse?

Their naivete rubs me the wrong way.

I hate to be the first one to say this after 5 pages of posts, but...as far as what's "worthy" of being canon in terms of how fitting/explanatory/sensible the idea is, I have to say... the single dumbest idea in all of Fallout is at the very core of Fallout 2, and Fallout 3 had to go along with it. Namely, .

Really, if you think about it, it's completely ridiculous, makes no sense, and would have been impossible, considering the insane engineering feat that the comprised of. I think the Enclave are excellent antagonists and deserving of a game or two (next game, my opinion, they should be relegated to second or third tier bad guys, on their last legs or fundamentally changed in a creative way). However, they could have been introduced without the ridiculous conceit about the .

I thought it was a dumb change from Fallout 1, but hey, I got over it, and the rest of Fallout 2 was pretty cool (I think backing off the uber-obvious pop culture references was a great decision for Fallout 3, and that the location-based naming easter eggs, like in The Pitt, are a lot more mature than Fallout 2 hitting you over the head with sci fi references - bad Family Guy-esqe humor).

Since it was already a major part of the lore, I think Bethesda did great at making some interesting Vaults with backstories.

My main complaint with Fallout 3 would be the limited dialogue, much less deep than some of the stuff in Fallouts 1 and 2, and NPCs not recognizing that major events have changed things (Almost everyone in The Pitt, Nathan in Megaton after a certain incident, and lots more). Stuff like that is good opportunity to flesh out the story - an easy place to put some exposition. Come on, I know those omnipresent Bethesda voice actors are workaday 9-5 salary guys, they'd be millionaires if you were paying them by the hour

They talk about Jet being used for soldiers in Operation: Anchorage, so Bethesda has already shown they're willing to try to cover omissions a bit (it's true that they need(ed) to explain how Jet is in the east coast after the Fallout 2 stuff).

I'm hopeful about the aliens. If they go a Deus Ex-style route (pre-war conspiracies), I think it could actually be very cool. If they make it a cheap excuse for lame Fallout 2-style gags, it could svck. Destroy All Humans is already a game. Also, with those ex-Fallout developers working on New Vegas, you think they're not going to pass up the opportunity to use Area 51 as a setting? Puh-leeze.

Yes. How dare they not appeal to an elitist minority. How dare they!
/sarcasum

Ok, went over to NMA to try and register so I could put up a similar poll there. So I go over and...

...

... Apparently they prevent users from regestering with free e-mail accounts (Yahoo! gmail, AOL, hotmail, MSN, etc) because of an apparent spam issue with those systems.

...

Yeah... So no poll on NMA. Anyone got any other fallout-related forums I can post this on for research?

Yeah, now that you mention it... Originally the idea of the aliens being tongue in cheek and a lot like the All Humans must Die vein really appealed to me. Now I think that a more serious, conspiracy theory approach would work better than the cheesy approach. More like X-Files than Mars Attacks.

I personally think that FO3 is certainly worthy of canon because it's consistent with most of the themes and settings of the previous games. I'm used to playing in large game environments that have sources of material from all over the setting, like Forgotten Realms in D&D, and just because something doesn't follow linearly or progress a particular story doesn't make it any less canon. It'd be like saying that happenings in Al'Quedim aren't cannon because they didn't happen in the Northern Reaches around Drizzt.

This is the most......thing I've ever read here.

Please, kick your computer.

fallout 3 was ok, so I voted yes, with doubts

Those have always been in fallout....

I think the point is, is that with all of those, can we really say a giant robot is out of place? It is very 50's Sci Fi.

5 threads later an the best I can think of is this :thumbsdown: < You "vets" certainly earned it. Anyway as far as cannon goes fallout 3 is definatly a part of it wether you want it to be or not. Deal with it, or continue arguing about it, your choice. P.S Your choice is going to be obvious so I have no idea why I've just bothered..

I still fail to see how it ultimately matters what other people think...

I mean, try to figure out what the "canon" is concerning Batman, or the X-Men... I challenge anyone to find me two nerds who can agree 100% on that issue. But it still doesn't mean you can't have fun reading them (or not, even.)

There's probably even some people out there who cling to considering Highlander 2 to have actually happened. But it's not like it really matters. Like, at all, as far as I can see.

I mean, the word "canon" comes from the Catholic church trying to figure out what parts of the Bible they wanted to make "official" - and a couple thousand years later, there's still some contreversy over that.

I'd argue that the only inherent worth of what's considered "official" resides in the capacity of each individual to decide for themselves. (Especially in a videogame that's always been sort of open-ended...)

We only run into a problem here when one group wants to decide that they hold the "one and only" definitive "answer" (like there actually is one.) If we could all respect this new-fangled concept called "respect for other people's opinions," and "agreeing do disagree," we'd have a lot less problem, I think.

I know this thread died a couple a days ago but I hope no one mind if I post my 2 cents on the issue.

Since Bethesda never gave "birth" to the series, which IMO doesn't give them the right add on what cannon.

Now legally do they have the right? Of course, but I don't see how they can say "This is how the creator would of wanted it" (specially after rejecting the help of one of the founders of Fallout). For me, I always refer to Fallout 3 as Bethesda's Fallout, and what they consider cannon is fine with me, but I don't consider them cannon with Black Isle's Fallout. Now yes there are alot in common but obivious there are flaws that people have already discuss. But I will say this, cause it's bugging me, Prewar times in Fallout...there is no way Jet could of existed. Beside the fact Post-war kid invented it (and thats when it was documented as being first created) one of the major ingredient in Jet is mutant Brahmin's poo. So where are you gonna get mutant poo Pre-war times? Super Mart don't carry it, I've checked! (would of been nice to use in my Rock-it launcher)

You dont need one, cos, 99% of people there will say its crap, and some even will say van buren is that is the "true" fo3 canon.

You end with same opinion as I. If we refeer to what is the discussion of TES lore, Oblivion is a deep trouble, but its a game after all. Being fanatical about it is a bit useless. If you enjoy the game, and feel that the story on it is good enough, then its canon for you no problem.

Regarding "authority" canon, simply i put the one who have the rights are the one, who after all, produce the game, and so produces the canon. To consider that just because some people released the first game 10+ years ago doesnt mean that others cant add to canon. And after all, fanatic peoples like NMA arent more canon authorities than the hot dog man at the street.

Personally the latest Bond films are good. And they are just like the first ones: simply actions movies, with nice ladies, and a lot of gun fight with an espionage accent. There is no more cold war, but its going good anyway. Personally i enjoyed very much Cassino Royale.

This is a discussion about whether or not some people feel strongly that FO3 is "canon", and people are perfectly welcome to state their opinions. I'd appreciate no more comments of the "too bad, so sad, just deal with it" nature. Mostly everyone in here has been having an exchange of opinions, and being articulate and civil about it even when they disagree. That's a good thing.

Just an added caution, we do not welcome cross-forum trolling, so if you have a gripe with or problem about another forum, take it up with them, not on this forum please.

Not to mention, it's hard not to consider the latest Bond movies starring Daniel Craig as non-canon, since they follow the books quite closely.

Canon: Enclave went bye-bye on the Oil Rig (disregard sig).
Canon: Super Mutants are intelligent and quite sophisticated - see Marcus. Compare Fawkes/Uncle Leo. Also, no new ones are being made.
Canon: Ghouls are people, too. No feral stuff.
Canon: Coins are currency, not bottle caps.
Canon: Aliens aren't canon.