hello everybody i was thinking if fallout 3 is set 200 years
after the nuclear holocaust wouldnt you think the pepole
of the nuclear wastes have rebuilt a civiliation by now?
tell me what you think
thx.

I think it's rather regress...
compare Vault City, NCR from F2 to Megaton or Rivet City.
Riders, Talon Company are Everywhere, Enclave has its backups, Supermutants kill innocent people, even Deathclaws arent inteligent BoS is spoiled into two two types...

I think this was just another bad decision by Bethesda. In my opinion Fallout 3 is comprised of a myriad of bad decisions and logic. 200 years after the war, there would have been a much greater impact on the wasteland around D.C. I love to speculate and fill in the holes but this is one I cannot, there is no excuse for it.



I don't know why you would compare those particular towns, Vault City was built from a G.E.C.K, it's a utopia. And the NCR had a population exceeding 3000 by Fallout 2, though you don't get to see most of this. In FO3s wasteland there just seems to be pockets of civilisation all over. Some would have united with others and formed stronger communities, but this isn't the case.

The Talon Company are mercs, they're not like raiders they don't attack anyone for the hell of it, they would have played little part in the intervention of civilised progress. Enclave didn't even make itself an active presence in the region until you started up the purifier, and again was no intervention in the 200 years preceding. Super mutants have always been a problem in all the regions we have seen so far, but we still had towns like Shady Sands 65 years after the great war, and the Hub was founded just 16 years after the great war. The wasteland was always a harsh place anywhere, D.C isn't the only region bent on ruining civilised progress. Bethesda just messed it up is all.

I'm not feeling how bethseda 'messed' it all up.

The DC ruins is likely in my opinion to be a hell hole as its portrayed. Why?

Think of it this way.

the Enclaves main 'base' was in California, and so was much of the the tech. The NCR, the BoS, Enclave, and any other major organization you may want to think of originates from the West Coast (that I can think of anyway) plus the super mutant infestation evolved differently within the east coast sectors.

Its entirely plausible the east coast didn't develop as fast as the west coast, given the many problems it has, including any source of water, and DC would be, plausibly, on the radar from intensified attacks from nuclear weapons, which would only add to the misery.

Who says the main base was Cali? The Enclave preserved themselves in more than one location. Their concentration was heavy at the oil rig because it was a very favourable spot. It was right on top of an invaluable resource pool, and it was in the middle of the ocean where no-one could wander and observe. No-one knows the true might or scope of the Enclave, especially 200 years on. The east coast BoS seemed to want to police D.C, this is far more of a privilege than any other region recieved, on the West coast people fended for themselves, they came together and worked it out.

D.C has a caravan route, that wouldn't have exsisted without some degree of safety in the wasteland, but civil progress still stagnated. Water is a problem anywhere, Bethesda just decided to make this the focal point of their story. The attacks still happened 200 years ago, if D.C did indeed recieve a more intensified attack, then why is it so well preserved? Even after 200 years? Not enough has happened.

Bethesda messed it up, that will have to be where our opinions differ.

It does not make sense at all otherwise.

I disagree.

In the Capital wasteland, Supermutants were a threat from early on (a vault dipping from sealing, as opposed to the Master picking it up later, and then having the dip operation destroyed by someone who will remain nameless; nuclear fallout/irradiated areas is a greater threat (As you'd expect the area around a capital to be more heavily nuked than the home of Moviestars). In Addition, California had one vault that did what the marketing material said (12), and another that wasnt too far off (15), DC has..... None, all were experiments that resulted in nothing in the post-war marketing material happening.

Civilisation was "Harder" to re-establish than in Califonia because of all of these factors.

Super Mutants were fully active in Cali by 2131. So far we're only aware that Vault 87 experiments started in 2078, unless someone has a source for when mutant activity began in D.C. I still think D.C would have been alot less preserved if it had recieved the intensive bombing people claim it did. The hub wasn't founded with Vault assistance, it was a self sufficient community for the most part. Shady sands would have never evolved into the NCR if it wasn't for the original vault dweller's intervention on the region, the Khans would have stomped them out early on. But shady sands was still a growing community by the time the original vault dweller first set foot outside Vault 13.

I also find it odd that D.C wouldn't have contained a control Vault, but I doubt this would have amounted to any salvation of the D.C wasteland. The D.C wasteland had its antibodies, it had a (benevolent) BoS presence, and the outcasts would also be blasting muties on their skirmishes. They also encountered alot of resistance from the Talon Company in the heart of D.C, mutants were still heavily resisted in D.C, if not more so than in Cali (granted that was single handed by the super vault dweller). D.C might not have had a greater deal of help in comparison to Cali, but things should have still been alot more together 200 years plus. Evan King from Arefu said many people packed up their shacks and left, people seemed to have alot of mobility in D.C. Lucy West was in Megaton so people from Arefu must have known of its presence, so why couldn't they have gone to megaton and set up outside its perimeter? This is a very specific example and it makes sense that it didn't happen, but more things like this could have happened, Megaton was very safe, so was Rivet city, these should have been flocking points for wayward wanderers, but after 200 years they're still just average communities confined within their original walls.

It seems the only civilization that existed around the world after the nuclear holocaust in the Capital Wasteland were isolated pockets like Megaton or Rivet City in contact with each other through traders - and I surmize it would be the same for the rest of the world. Without a powerful group taking command like the Enclave or the Brotherhood of Steel a return to a truly global world civilization would not be possible. There would probably not be enough people around for that, anyway.

But some of these pockets of civilization might be highly advanced - for instance the Commonwealth. But a true return to a global civilization wouldn't be possible without a powerful group taking control to lead the way, like the Enclave or the Brotherhood of Steel.

I think the NCR has a pretty good chance of taking the reigns to rebuild the US at the very least. To quote the wiki:


I don't even think the Enclave would be able to stand against that, esspecially as their hold over the west coast all but diminished after the events of FO2. But their plans for biological genocide have come close on more than one occasion.

Indeed, if there is any chance, it lies with the Paroles... Oops, I mean NCR

I agree Bethseda messed up on some key factors (see my other arguments why I don't think this will happen again)

However, i think, that since President Richardson was located on that oil barge within and given that Eden and co only arrived after him (presumably?) that the west coast ended up being their main base. This is based on the fact that the barge was their presumed technological hub before it was destroyed, and that they seem to keep a notable hierarchy system within the organization itself. Its unlikely more than 1 person would claim they were president.

There are plenty of reasons why Cali was indeed their main base of operations, it is the http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Core_Region of the series afterall. It is certain that pre-war enclave (government and military) were involved in F.E.V research at west tek (the glow) which was then transfered to Mariposa in 2077. Which more than justifies the importance of the West Coast to the Enclave. The Oil rig was handy, though

I agree that the 200 year figure is just not believable. The game should have been set 20 years after the war. That would explain the continuing high levels of radiation, relative good condition of the DC ruins, still edible food and useable medicine, power grid still up, people still wearing pre-war clothes, and on and on. If it were 200 years later, you'd have greenery that looks like Oblivion, and very little of the pre-war stuff would be left. Buildings would be completely overgrown with vegetation, roads too. Most people would have a very limited knowledge of the Great War as well; it would just be old legends told around the campfire. 200 years just doesn't work IMO..

I have a simple answer for that:
Everyone hates each other so they cant cooperate to create a civilisation.
End of Story

I've seen a lot of good arguments in this topic.

However, 200 years into the future isn't a bad setting. The main thing, (IMHO) is that a lot of people tend to forget that the game is based on 1950's knowledge about anything nuclear. That is why we have mutated animals, still large pockets of radiation, lack of nuclear winter and so on.

Now we know that there can be a nuclear winter, radiation does not grow additional limbs or enlarge species (you'll get genetic failures and tumors in offspring though) but that you'll just get rad. sicknes (or cancer) and die. Also it's a global nuclear war and maybe they thought that plantlife would be mutated and/or reduced in a matter that would avoid the "oblivion greenery"(<-- Nice Find BTW)

Actually, now we know that there CANNOT be a nuclear winter, but with everything else I agree 100%. The Fallout world everything works like the in 50's imaginary. In every piece of science fiction from that time radiation was some weird thing capable of doing almost anything, both good and bad. Back then even scientists firmly believed that in the near future food would be made to last forever by sterilizing it with radiation. That's why the pre-war food is still edible.

No fun in the game if the BOS and Encalve had made the world safe and techno again. Gees, they were making a game not a documentary.

The reason it is 200 years, otherwise it would be totally conflicting with the other fallouts. So its a lose - lose.



In reality I would presume it would be much different, but like it has been said, it based on what was thought in the 1950's not our era where we now better. I presume in the cold war and such this is very much what they thought a nuclear war would do.

What he said.

No matter how FO3 was done, there are always people who whine over what happened.

One that needs to be thought about as far the civilization and progress in the capital wastelands is that when going to Big Town and talking to the NPC's there they tell you that they had tried to go the Megaton and were told to flake off and go some where else as they had nothing to offer Megaton. And as far as Rivet City in order to get there people would have to go through the Super Mutant infested central DC area so that might explain why there has not been a mass movement or growth of pop there. Also as far as the Brotherhood is concerned they don't seem to care for the every day Fallout traveler very much as when you talk to them prior to actually being of any use to them they also kind of tell you to get lost and that they don't want you around as it is to dangerous meaning that no matter how good you are you are still and outsider that = liability to them. So all this would lend one think that well hell if that is the case then people would have gathered in other areas which they did to some regard but not in significant numbers and any of the smaller groups would have been taken out by raiders, super mutants, or slavers to be sent else where. But that it self leads to Canterbury Commons which has the 2 mask wearing freaks battling in it every day and might cause people to decide to get the hell outa doge, grated this does not explain why it was not larger but it could be that when the mask wearing freaks moved in most every one left. Then this brings us to Tenpenny Tower where you had to pay big to get in, which should explain that in and of its self.

As far as the time frame eh it probably should have been earlier but I have to agree with da mage in that to much conflict in the cannon but as far as that goes it happens in all games that are in the same series that are made by different companies.

Oh one other thing that I just thought of. We all need to remember that a large population of DC and the area that Fallout 3 in is in there are not areas that many people live in but are instead buildings used by government employees and also the heads of state who in the event of nuclear war would been evacuated, with family, outta there faster then any thing. And also not to mention again that the only vaults in the DC area where noting but social experiments and nothing like Vault 15, NCR if memory serves, Vault 8, Vault City, or the demonstration Vault that would become the safe haven in the war for the people that started the Boneyard in LA.

I live outside DC, but not in a place on the current game map. I remember after the Cold War they showed the list for strikes in the US. DC and the DC area would have been hit by something around 25,000 megatons just for a 100 mile area. California as a whole wasn't even near 1,000 megatons. I think this is what happened in the Fallout universe and explains the differences east and west.

Not really. It doesn't explain why the level of destruction was actually that low. The city looks like after a conventional bombardment. The Boneyard in FO1 looks more like a city obliterated by nukes.

Could have been a neutron bomb that was dropped on DC and then some nuking of the outlying area then.

Level of destruction was so low for gameplay reasons - it would be quite boring to walk around in a almost completely leveled city.

Or mayhaps DC was not hit by a few big bombs, but instead by a precision bombardment of mininukes.

Dude, you know how much mess DC is? How is a bunch of people able to clean up all the ruins with no machines, with super muntants and ghouls all over the city and barely food with radiated water.

Even if there was no more mutants left, they still had to develop construction machines, and even have to educat themsevles to be able to use those things.