So anyone who is critical of the shiny new dialogue system is afraid of change? LOL! Seriously, that is the best argument that the fans of the new system have? The voiced protagonist is not the issue. It can be done well (see TW3). But the the one word responses, the inability to revisit topics, etc. is just plain old bad design and just a bit lazy, IMO. That image that shows the differences is spot on.

Ya. But different outcome wasn't the only point of a more complex system. Sometimes the various responses were just provide color and flavor, not just to advance the plot or quest.

We all know CHAR affects the dialgue. Show me ONE time either science or explosive skill affected dialogue (or any other skill).

This is a step in the right direction, but i'm not sure changing the visual design of the dialogue menu is the sole answer. Each response now needs to be fully re-written so the player knows what to expect and it's not just a shot in the dark. Given that there's something like 100,000 lines of recorded dialogue, I imagine at least half of that is related to conversations you have with NPCs.

That's a huge under-taking, even if you manage to automate the audio to text part.

Yup. And that is what all the "it's really the same" type defenses of the new system are missing. It's NOT the same.

When you are interviewing or otherwise having a consequential conversation in real life, you do not know what skills you need, nor what the consequences might be. The animated dialogues are a HUGE improvement to the game. I dare anyone who disagrees to just stop playing it protest. Bet you can't do it!

The irony is, people complain about these things as if saying "Whhaaa!! the Old System was better!" is going to have any consequence other than creating a thread full of everyone's opinion = useless.

If you really do not like it, then start planning your mod. Or play a different game. Not saying you cannot post your complaints, just pointing out how utterly useless it is to do so and expect something is going to come of it. It is clearly part of the core game, and if anyone has any illusions that Bethesda is going to "redo it" I believe you are sadly mistaken. They did a LOT of writing, and voice recording to get this thing set up and it is here to stay. Sure it may be tweaked, expanded on, etc. but the idea that some seem to be implicitly expressing that "Bethesda should fix it" is inane.

Now, if one were to say: "I'm not happy with the new dialogue system. Here is how I think it could be made better by Bethesda, or modders . . ." that would be a different kind of thread.

One thing that I do not guess many have yet appreciated: the fact that player characters "have voice" has opened up a completely new domain for modders.

I predict that within a year, there will be 20 "Player Character Alternate Voice" mods, and some of those may well use the system we have here to substantially expand and improve on it. And don't let that confuse you with "let the modders fix it," that is not the issue here. The system is perfectly functional, fully enjoyable, and I expect will be totally satisfactory if not preferable to the vast majority of users. In sum, it is brilliant on Bethesda's part: they have created a new dialogue system that: a. will satisfy most users; b. is good gameplay; and c. is highly moddable, indeed more moddable than any previous system, at least in so far as it (presumably) allows users to mod the player characters lines, voice and perhaps even the dialogue choices.

Sarcasm?

Broken beyond salvage.

Is it possible (for 2 very dedicated and amazing people to do this) to basically do a community re-voice pack to replace all of the characters dialogue?

It's not that there's anything wrong with the voice work already in the game, but it's going to be quite jarring if people add new responses that just have no voice or during the quest mods.

I know it's an undertaking of massive proportions, but I'm just curious if it's even possible to begin with?

I don't know what's wrong with people these days,they want games to be more simple ,more like a movie with little input from the player.They are scourge of the gaming community and they are the ones who can't come with an argument when it comes to defend the game.

Their only arguments are ''You are trolling'' ''I love it'',they are incapable to think why they do tho

For me it's the worst dialog system I've ever seen in an RPG. It feels very limited with only 4 options, trying to get information out of NPCs is like trying to put out a light bulb by blowing into it. Dialog is one of the main pillars in a game like this but in FO4 it's barely there. I voiced my concerns regarding this before release and unfortunately they turned out to be true.

IMO it's a massive step backwards from previous iterations, compared to FNV the dialog system is a complete joke.

Nope

http://i.imgur.com/hEWCLbd.jpg

I understand some (many) people prefer more passive experience. What I don't understand are those people unwilling to accept that the game has flaws, like any other game. This one just has a bit more of them.

The fact that some people dismiss the core values of the series in a "lol i like it this way and so does bethesda deal with it " way is disgraceful though. Not that the IP is anything more but a shell of its former glory now.

But hey, at least now I can enjoy watching the fanmob circlejerk over a simplified shallow game with the worst dialogue system in the history of wannabe-RPGs while listening to/reading being called "stuck in the past" or rubbish like that

This. The descriptions are pretty much useless. My first character was using all the sarcastic responses simply because my first character is always a good around character and nothing serious. I started my serious character and tried picking more reasonable responsones but often they didn't match the completely useless descriptions. All I know is that the top one is always a question and I avoid those because it makes my character sound like a complete imbecile and alos the dialogue is a lot longer. So on my third character I went back to sarcastic because at least I know what I am getting. Hopefully I don't insult someone to badly.

No the best argument here is that the "Fallout 4" model is more immersive because it flows like an actual conversation and is paced like an actual conversation.

My other point was that the image quickly put together to criticize the new format shows in depth play of "Fallout 3" and a 5 minute dip into "Fallout 4" which undermines it's critical value.

At the end of the day this thread could be titled "Do you like the color blue better than the color yellow".

Not just a step back. More like it was telekinetically thrown backwards.

If you are in a gun battle in real life taking a bullet does a little more than knock a few points off a health bar. "It's more realistic this way" is not an inherent defense of any game mechanic.

Anyone who has played Fallout 4 would already know there is no difference in the dialogue from 5 minutes in compared to 40 hours in. That's sure as hell is my case. Those screenshots basically show all of the games at their best in dialogue.

Yes, its completely unlike real life where you know exactly what the response is going to be to whatever you say because they have little thought bubbles over their head with the skill level you need to pass.

Its a great system as is, though better descriptions would be nice. That said, the longer Bioware descriptions are no more use at least some of the time.

The story, dialogue, character interaction all get better as you get deeper into the game. There are skill checks for dialogue that will change character disposition, story and gameplay. So far I like the new system I find it more immersive than the previous games more realistic that means better immersion. It's a more Mass Effect style and that's fine with me because the writing , story ,character interaction and relationships are all better the previous Fallout's.

That is the stuff of nightmares...

Any examples that are not just charisma?

I'm not going to vote, because I chose not to buy the game. Its not a question of who implements the system, its actually a systematic failure to engage a person in an intelligent meaningful conversation where we can express more than our emotes for our benefits.

I've tried to play it their way with number of Bioware titles but had to give up in vain, with less than 50 hours logged in any of the titles using this system.

They might've as well limited our choices to;

1. F##k yeah (strongly agree)
2. F##k no (strongly disagree)
3. Sh#t happens (indifferent)
4. Shoot and loot corpse (offended)

I think the mini games within the games are now having less emphasis and the focus have shifted more towards the action.

More and more games are having less rpg components or its getting toned down to what I might call it dumb. Why even have it? Might as well just make it a fps with immersion.

I'd counter that with a yes, you actually do have some idea how people will react to any given thing you will say. I know by the person's general demeanor whether they will respond to a comment phrased in a humorous way as opposed to a serious way. I know whether or not they are likely to believe my complex technical response or my medical response or my aggressive response based on my personal backstory and knowledge - I always thought of the old systems as jobs. I have a wall of computer certifications and can speak with some authority on a technical response. I'm a medical doctor and can speak with some authority on a medical response. I'm a military veteran and can speak with some authority on an intimidation response. I'm just an all-around nice gal that everyone likes and can persuade people based on that.

In the previous games that's precisely why we built out those stats to begin with. Now we have basically nothing. I have points sitting around unused because only a few perks were useful and there's literally no point in building out SPECIAL because it doesn't make any difference anyway.

This system is worse in every single way compared to what we had before. I can't believe anyone is seriously defending this.

I solidly fall into the "No, but it could be with significant changes." I say this because TW3 nailed both the voiced protagonist and the dialogue-options-not-being-verbatim. It could be good, but BGS didn't execute well on many things with it:

1) Options are too whittled down. They don't need to say exactly what I'm about to say, but they do need to clearly indicate it. TW3 nailed this. I'm sure there was one case where a dialogue options didn't turn out to be what I wanted, but I don't recall it.

2) When choice is an illusion, just get rid of the choice. For example, I think it was a conversation with Nick Valentine where I had to exhaust all dialogue options before moving on (the one where you describe the kidnapping, Kellogg, and your child). Why not remove the prompt and just let the conversation play out?

3) An extension of point 2, if 4 choices are not needed, then just give me fewer options. In fact, in some cases, it's better to put me in a corner and force me to make a decision and live with it - eliminate that "Not sure" option.

4) Persuasions were reverted back to being chance-based. I hate everything about that. It was one of the big changes FNV had over Fo3 and I greatly preferred it. Just give me a flat "you either can say this or not" option. Persuasions are the big lure for Charisma but that SPECIAL means nothing if the mechanic isn't reliable.

5) I miss the perk related dialogue options that New Vegas had in droves and Fo3 had a bit. I think all persuasions should be able to be completed with a high enough charisma, but I think there are times where an alternative means to pass a speech test would make sense and should be implemented. It doesn't have to be every speech test, just those where it really makes sense. For example, with enough enthusiasm and persuasion, you can convince someone that rigging explosives is a good idea. Alternative, if you have the Explosives perk, your in-depth knowledge on the topic would provide a sufficient alternative.

Tl;dr: I don't think the design choice is flawed, just its execution.