A more inconvenient way to select similarly dumb phrases.

Really? I haven't seen a whole lot of that when I'm playing. I have seen some dialogue options that lead to completely different dialogue paths you wouldn't see when picking the other options, but I'm not seeing these consequences to these options that you're calling "natural and real". I remember scolding this one NPC for being far too nice, only for the very next dialogue options we start gossiping like some teenage girls about some other NPC. Other times I am constantly mocking the Brotherhood of Steel and its members and NPCs are still treating just as well as they would if I chose other nicer or neutral dialogue options.

I honestly saw more consequences in dialogue in FO3 than here. To the point of which I would sometimes reload a previous save because pissing them off had locked me out of some information I needed. I remember insulting a lot of NPCs only for me to lose favor with them over something. For example, the Brotherhood scribe in the library next to the Citadel, the first thing I did when meeting her was insulting her and she ended up not liking me for it. Her dialogue throughout the conversation turned into judgments of my rude behavior. This ultimately locked me out of the option to turn in pre-war books to her for caps because she did not like me. Which is quite the consequence for how profitable that is.

So now I'm 30 hours into the game, the more I play the more I miss the old dialogue options we had before, even in FO3 !
Dialogue wheels of Bioware are miles better than Bethesda's poor attempt of doing them.
First, you can ask questions. "Investigate", and then come back to give your response to the NPC. Shocking revelation there I know...
In FO4 you ask the one question you CAN ask and 90% of the time that just ends or move the dialogue forward. Dang it, I want to speak with NPCs !
Second, the many times ONE worded summaries they give us are incredibly insufficient, it's just horrible is what it is.
For example (without spoilers) I just saw a scene in the game that someone lost someone dear to them in front of them, I approach the dude and here are my options:
What happened ?
You are safe now.
He is dead now. (Or something similar)
And for the big finale...

SARCASTIC

What does that even mean ?! Lol

Another example, I had an option to tell Codsworth "Too much time alone ?"
Here I was thinking it would be something compassionate and considerate, but my character said something like this: "you were alone for two hundred years, you sure your robot brain hasn't collected dust ? "
I never had this problems in Mass Effect or The Witcher to this extent.
Thirdly, no S.P.E.C.I.A.L /PERK related dialogue ? Does the widow maker perk now give any new dialogue??

It just... svcks.

And sadly mods can't really fix this one completely *sigh*

one of the things i really, really hate about FO4 is the dialogue system. even a perfect dialogue wheel will be worse than a good text based system (would that be what it's called? im not sure) and this is a very bad dialogue wheel

That is a great example of how much better things are in "Fallout 4".

Most of the people criticising the dialogue are like the guy who put that image together.

Spent ages playing "Fallout 3".

Spent 5 minutes playing "Fallout 4" and then wrote it off because it wasn't exactly the same as "Fallout 3".

You have dialogue options. Your personality and charisma and perks affect this.

You have lots of choice also.

But everyone fears change.

Give it time and a couple of years from now we'll all be complaining about how "Fallout 5"s dialogue is rubbish compared to 4.

Those images remind me that I don't know what my character's going to say half the time now. Single word responses almost always go the opposite direction as I expect them to in terms of mood and what side I'm on. It's incredibly frustrating. Far harder to misinterpret the entire sentence ala Fo3/NV.

I actually really prefer this system (though I think they could ease up on the brevity in the options to make the choices more clear.) But I just prefer that kind of approach to dialog.

I think it's so much down to personal preference, though - I tend to distrust when people attempt to frame these discussions in purely objective terms.

I think we all knew when this feature was announced that it would be controversial, to say the least.

I played 30 hours now which I think is enough to get how the game works. I have to say it would be quite a feat to make something worse for FO5 lol

I am neither here nor there.

I liked the ways that Fallout 3/NV had a lot of tie-ins with perks and whatnot. However, quite a few of them lead to the exact same result as regular dialogue did. Same picture, different frame.

I like the flow of the new system, but I would like to have more influence to what I say. So I'll hold on and take more time in. I like the game as it is, even with the bugs. Yes, it is different. Different has never meant it is inferior by default.

A well-implemented truncated-delivery dialogue wheel has contributed positively to every game I've played with one. Fallout 4's isn't the best. Partially it's because I'm playing on PC: the 4-button dialogue options are designed for a console, and on PC it's awkwardly hard-coded onto the directional keys. Four options is also a rather limited number; six would have been nice. What really hampers it in fallout 4, though, is just how truncated the options on the wheel appear. In other games it's a phrase; here it's two or three works at most and on several occasions I've selected an option that played out tonally very differently from how I'd intended. Someone's going to make a really great mod that revises all the dialogue wheel text, and the game will be better for it.

On the other hand, I can't fault Bethesda's decision to go for this kind of dialogue system. The voiced protagonist adds a lot of character. I'm playing as a female, and Courtenay Taylor's fantastic voice work is thoroughly vindicating that decision so far.

Perk/skill-checks are still in the game, just represented by color-coding this time around (based upon degrees of success). I'd lay money on a future mod adding in onscreen numerical values to this system, but they're definitely in there.

I have to say it isn't an improvement, and i personally prefer the older dialogue system in F3/NV, i don't hate the new voiced dialogue, i just think speech is not as good or as important in the game as before. at least that's the impression i've got so far anyway,

Also i get immersed playing as me in 1st person mode as usual, gameplay wise, then it's a character and not me, in 3rd person dialogue cut scenes, it's a little bit weird imo lol.

Ok that got me thinking, I believe anything is possible as long as there is at least some science theory to support it and only a lack of proof.

So what would a worse dialogue system actually look like...

I mean if I were to try to come up with a worse one that ACTUALY might be inplelemntned some day (for real) what could it be like? There are a lot of very creative people on these forums, so I bet you guys could give me some funny or horrifying examples. Here is one of mine:

ONE button that is "dynamic" and contextual with a timer. Too fast and your answer is not the best. Too late and it is even worse.

The timer "window" gets larger or smaller with your protagonists actor's stats or perks. Better stats mean you have a bigger middle ground of time to make a choice.

Your actors stats and past actions would determine the actual responses. A player actor that did a lot of antisocial actions and had a low intelligence would give angry and curse filled responses for example.

oh...Dam... actually that is better than the system they have now...

It could be. I like having a voiced protagonist. It needs some tweaks, though. More varied options, for example, and a clearer understanding of what the character is going to say. Mass Effect 1 and 2 handled it really well, imo. I don't include 3 because that game way too much auto-dialogue and limited things too much.

And your right, Azrael... people do fear change. Even I fear change. Especially dimes. Damn dimes are always out to get you.

I have no real problem with it.

I take the "question" dialogue option every chance I get, and have found no less exposition from characters about their motivations, or lore behind whatever it is they are talking about, then in past games.

The only difference I see is now they have to organize it into a coherent line of questioning, rather then the 10+ assorted/unconnected questions we could ask in past games, which is an improvement IMO.

Absolutely hate it. I'll leave it at that.

its great from a cinematic point of view, not so good if you want to roleplay different character personalities, and its gonna be hard to add extra content later

Yep! ^^^^

It's not just about exposition. It's about ways to express your character's personality. It's about flavor. It's about actual skill checks that lead to alternate ways to complete quests. These are missing in Fallout 4.

old system vs new system lol I miss the old system had gotten very used to it in FO3 & NV but I also like the new streamlined version

I wish we weren't limited to four options and I wish the dialogue options were more clear on what exactly my character was going to say. It doesn't even have to be the whole thing, just most of it paraphrased if you will. The dialogue tree is also too blatantly console like and I wish they left it the way it was in previous games. I'm indifferent to voice acting as it has both its pros and cons.

What I do love though is the minor new details such as your character reacting boringly to the npc when you skip dialogue or the NPC remarks when you take forever to choose what you want to say as those do add a sense of realism.

And Bethesda can't change their dialogue design because other developers are doing similar systems? Or because you do not like it? You are saying "IF I" well this game is not just for you, its for millions of people. If they wanted to try out the dialogue wheel at some point they would, and they could and so they did! I think they did a solid job of it as it is their first time trying out both dialogue wheel and voiced protagonist. Bioware has had years to perfect it and they are still doing a poor job in some games. I think Bethesda can fine tune this abit easier and get it down path much quicker, maybe even in Fallout 4 DLC's.

The fact that the protagonist is voiced is not the issue, and in fact all the voice actors in this game have been exceptional so far.

The issue is how they restricted dialogue to one-time cut scenes where you're stuck between a positive, neutral, negative, and inquisitive dialogue option on repeat. I know that other games did it just the same way, but at least we knew what we were going to say, and actually got the chance to continue the conversation another time. It has been a rare occurrence for me to be capable of actually speaking with someone again that wasn't a companion or trader.

Because I don't like it.

It's really that simple.

Of course I'm not saying Bethesda CAN'T change their dialogue system. I don't think you honestly believe that's what I'm saying. Let's be advlts here.

Bethesda can turn Fallout into an online-only pay2win mobile game. It's their right. It's their property. Doesn't mean consumers don't have the right to express their dissatisfaction.

As I've said numerous times, I hate the new dialogue system because they removed skill checks that allowed your character to display his expertise and complete objectives in unique ways, or just make a unique comment based on his knowledge, because they removed a huge deal of flavor dialogue that allowed the player to create a personality for his character, and because it's annoying to try and figure out what the character is going to say when you're only given 3 word prompts for each option. Is that so offensive to hold that view?

I know you'll argue that this isn't the case, that Fallout 4 has all of these things, but I would still argue that they are reduced to a much greater degree, and skill checks other than charisma are completely absent. That last point is objective fact.

Obviously these aspects of Fallout's old dialogue system don't matter to you at all, and that's fine. I understand that some people don't care at all about expressing themselves through dialogue, or watching their character's skills lead to new dialogue options, but can you at least understand why the absence of these features in Fallout 4 irritates some people?

If I wanted to play a game where I'm playing someone else's character and just slightly changing his responses to situations while watching a "Cinematic" story unfold, I'd play the Witcher. I'd play Mass Effect. I'd play Dragon Age. Fallout filled a niche for me that seems to be completely gone from the AAA gaming industry now as a result of Fallout 4's dialogue system, and that will never be okay for me.

Ok then, and this was good. I was not sure of your motvations and your personal stake in it and now i know. To me you were just waving around that picture trying to convince everyone else that it svcks, when in fact they liked it. If it is a comfort to you i do think the other SPECIAL stats tie into Charisma in form of persuasion. My first character had 3 strength, and 8 Charisma, and yet when she tried to threaten someone it was impossible, or rather red on the dialogue option. My new melee character has 10 Strength, and 2 Charisma, and for him the option was green as in easy. That is something atleast, if it turns out to be correct.