(I am not a frequent poster to forums, so moderator please edit and move this post to where it is appropriate, as necessary)

I am writing this thread in hopes of appealing to those of you who have your "fingers on the pulse" of the tech side of the gaming industry. I am a gaming fan of Fallout (yes, 97 - present) and I would like to hear people's opinions on what some good options for engines in a future game. I don't want this to be a content discussion unless it pertains directly to a function of an engine. Also, I am already looking forward to another fallout game and it is fun to speculate!

I will throw out some discussion points, just as a place to start. Please keep in mind that I am a novice on these tech issues and am not sure how involved these questions (and their answers!) are.


- With the latest acquisition of id software by ZeniMax, could their various FPS engines be applied to "open world" games. If not, could it be modified to do so? Would it be worth it?

- What engines are available that fit the current style (F3 and F:NV) of play that you would like to see used? What about a 3rd person approach? Isometric? (Think Diablo 3)

- With the success in sales of the current Fallout series, does it make financial sense to design a new engine? How hard it it to build these engines to work on the "big 3" (PC, 360, PS3) given the huge variations. Are you limiting the quality of the engine by making sure it can run on a console? (For the record, I have only played F3 and F:NV on a PS3)


Hopefully that is enough to get started. Also, if anyone has advice on places to research this type of topic or other forums that may be more appropriate, I am open to all input. Thanks again for taking the time to educate myself and others on this

Ryanair80

Todd has said that they're working on a new engine for their next game. They haven't said what it is but it's widely believed to be TES IV. We also know they have a second game that recently started developement, again nothing has been said or hinted at but many people suspect this is FO4. Whatever these games are there's a good chance they're both using the same engine just as FO3 used the TES IV engine. We know their next engine isn't id tech 5, I don't believe Bethesda has said what they're using but there's a good chance it's the latest version of Gamebryo.

I don't see them doing an isometric game, their focus has been on first person perspective RPGs and if they weren't going to do an isometric game for FO3 I don't see why they'd do it for FO4.

Would the same engine thing apply if the second game was coming out for the next generation of consoles? Do you believe the second game will come out for the next generation of consoles?

Well assuming TESV will use a modified version of the version of Gamebryo used in Fallout 3, they have a chance to change the engine for the game after that (likely FO4). id Tech 5 fits in many ways, id was acquired by Zenimax, id Tech 5 was specially made for Rage, Fallout is similar to Rage, it would be freaking awesome to have FO4 use id Tech 5, etc. But I don't think that's going to be the case, what's most likely going to happen is that the next Fallout game will use an updated version of Gamebryo from the last game that they made (as has been the case since Morrowind onward).

I thought there had been a No Mutants Allowed article stating that Gamebryo was having financial problems or some issue like that? In which case it would be unlikely, for whatever reason, for Bethesda to continue using that type of engine. I'm pretty sure I'm wrong, at this point, but I do remember reading some article of that nature.

http://www.nma-fallout.com/ It's the tiny, tiny article for Thursday, November 11, 2010. :]

I really am pretty ignorant as to how businesses work(aside from some obvious factors that most know anyways), and extremely ignorant on how engines work and why'd you pick one or the other. So I personally have to rely on common and/or reliable opinions and such. If anyone could give further confirmation, or respond on the matter of the article, that'd be good.

I'm thinking something similar to the cryengine.

Most likely any games that come out on the 360/ps3 will continue using the updated Gamebryo. It's unlikely they're going to switch over to ID tech or the "Cry-engine" since they're really for a different type of game. Trying to move their entire dev shop over from Gamebryo to ID tech would also be a costly and difficult endeavour. I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up using the "latest" version of Gamebryo, Gamebryo Lightspeed. This would probably be different than whatever they're doing TES V in currently (which is supposedly an updated Fallout 3 Gamebryo).

That's an excellent question. There's a substantial financial advantage to building an engine for multiple games, perhaps the fact that they're doing this means the second game is likely to be for current generation consoles as well . . . but that's hard to speculate on.


Except we already know they aren't using a modified version of the Oblivion/FO3/FONV engine, they're building a new one.


http://pc.ign.com/articles/111/1112464p1.html, "The studio's new engine built for its upcoming title is more beneficial to creating huge, open-world games, such as Fallout 3 and The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, while id Tech 5 is better for more contained environments." So it would seem that id tech 5 is out of the running unless they plan to make a more contained environment or they feel that id Tech 5 can be further developed to handle large open worlds.

The nice thing about Gamebryo is that it's a stripped down engine - other than the graphics (and maybe the physics now?) everything is kept very rudimentary. The intention is to have a developer heavily modify and augment the engine to do what they need it to and this way there is a minimum amount of established code that needs to be altered or ripped out. While stand-alone game engines may be open to some modification it's rare to see one drastically re-purposed.

I certainly wouldn't discount the possibility of a heavily modified id tech 5 engine for a future BGS title but I do think it's unlikely. If the openness if RAGE is popular I could see id giving serious consideration to an engine developed for open worlds knowing that it would suit Bethesda's needs.


Gamebryo's owners are having problems but chances are BGS began working on their new engine 2+ years ago so if they are using Gamebryo they already have the license.

This might impact further games if Bethesda needs to obtain a second license to use the engine a second time - unless of course they've already done that.

Oh ok, thanks. So they are rebuilding Gamebryo or another engine for what's likely to be TESV instead of just adding on to what they already had?

Ah, okay. :] Thankies for the explanation, that answers one of my questions that's been bothering me for a while.

Rumor has it that ES:V is being built on a modified version of the same engine that ran ES:IV and FO:3 which is fine with me.
I bet ES:V will be out by Christmas 2011, and I wouldn't be surprised if FO:4 followed a year after using the ES:V engine. FO:NV was made in two years, so maybe in another two years we'll get FO:4.

I like the input and appreciate the information. Can we expect new generations of this adapted Gamebryo engine to run more effeciently on the PS3 and 360 than it's predecessor. That is not meant to be a critique on the current generation engine, but does the engine allow the developers to look back at the "old" engine and improve. I.e. improved A.I, further viewing distances, better graphics, more numerous NPC characters on the screen at the same time, et al. OR is this simply a limitation of an open world game, no matter the engine, on a current generation console. (Sorry PC users, some day I will have a hot rig but I know very little about the current state of PC gaming and if the hardware is currently out-performing the software or vice versa)

P.S. If money was no factor, I would definitely geek out at giving John Carmack a few years to build an "open world" engine. Give a legend a shot....

As far as I've heard, Gamebryo just went bankrupt. Not to mention it's one of the worst engines in the world right now. I'd hope that they make a new engine or use one that's well rounded for their next game. I'd also hope that Bethesda sticks to TES and Obsidian develops Fallout, as this would not only(in my opinion) make both franchises more enjoyable, but it would also allow for a leapfrogging release schedule that lets us play our open world rpgs with much less downtime.

With the fact RAGE ( id's new game) has been stated to be open world, I imagine so. This is how post-apocalyptic should look: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd0RtabEah4

I wish id had been given Fallout: New Vegas over Obsidian.



Gamebryo was used for Divinity 2 and it's gorgeous compared to Oblivion or Fallout 3/NV ( I know, as I play it with all settings high). Any engine is only as good as the people using it.

And I'd prefer Obsidian be relegated to the story only, and not any actual development of future Fallout games ( if they have any involvement at all :yuck: ). I'd also pfer the id guys take over the character design from Bethesda ( as Bethesda can't make good looking models/animation to save their life).

Yes. the engine matters quite a bit, it's not solely the graphical limitations of it's games. and the problem with your suggestion is that it would essentially have 3 studios involved constantly with the same project throughout the game's development, a logistical and financial nightmare for any game studio. Also, you cannot hire on a studio to write a story, that's just not something that they would do.
Ideally, i think that bethesda should do the engine and release TES, then Obsidian should use bethesda's work as a starting point for a new FO.
And i think you need to take another look at obsidian.

Well, when Larian Studios can make the Gamebryo engine shine brighter than Oblivion or Fallout without all the bugs, then I'm sorry but it as I said: it depends on who's using it.

You realize Bethesda Softworks owns id, right? Easy as pie. And if the rumors are true ( please God, no) then they will soon own Obsidian as well. Gee, all 3 under one banner. So much for those "logistical nightmares".

I don't need another look at Obsidian. They release nothing but completely bugged out [censored] every time and then try to patch it into something decent. And that's when using pre-existing materials (KotOR 2, Fallout: New Vegas). When they build the whole game from scratch it's even worse ( Neverwinter Nights 2, Alpha Protocol). And if you're referring to the fact they used to be Black Isle Studios and therefore "created" Fallout, I'll also point out that was14 years ago and everything they've put out since then has been mediocre at best, including Fallout: New Vegas.

I'd prefer Fallout 4 when it's released to be an upgrade from Fallout 3, not an interim mod like Fallout: New Vegas. And I do not see that happening with Obsidian at the helm.

Calm down dude.
The engine matters a considerable amount to how a game looks, feels and behaves. A dedicated team can definitely make a bad engine work very well, and i'm not familiar with your example, but if what you're saying is accurate, then good for that team.
That said, Bethesda and Obsidian do not have the worlds best... well anything to be honest. They would both benefit quite a bit from a very well designed engine and toolkit.
id has 170+ staff. Bethesda games and obsidian each had at least 80, though i am not now sure of the exact numbers. Dedicating all software development wings of your company and over 300 people to one project IS a logistical nightmare.

and really, chill out. I think in time Obsidian will grow to be a well respected studio. Their previous work has been hit and miss, but it's not the crime against humanity you seem to think it is.

With ES:V Skyrim hitting the shelves in 2011, I think it's pretty obvious FO:4 will be based on that engine.

FO:4 could be here as soon as 2012 too.

Apparently they're making TES:V using an engine that Bethesda is making themselves. If that's the case then FO4 will be doing the same probably.