I think slavery puts 3 over 4 in terms of maturity.

It's such a ballsy move to include something as serious as that in a game.

Maybe because F3 has had a 91 press score and 7.9 userscore and F:NV has had a very solid 84 press score with a 8.5 userscore. Both titles ratings are from a time where metabombing was not really a problem.

This showed a bit the direction where people felt entertained more.

And the hope resulting from that was that Bethesda maybe cut a bit of the best pieces of the Obsidian bit to make the Fallout 4 cake most tasty.

Instead they simply ignored NV′s existence and tried on Fallout 4 on their own. With again a 84 press score (same as NV) and a far lower userscore.

Read the above.

Alright, let me be a little more clear since you still don't understand.

"Wow. Look at these amazing things Obsidian did with New Vegas.""

"Wow. Look at all these amazing things"

"amazing things."

You pointing out a bunch of negatives is completely irrelevant. Every game has a bunch of negatives. I never said bring any negatives into Fallout 4.

Do you understand now?

This sums up the entire thread and any thread that whinges about how hopeless and incompetent any video game writer is or isn't. I can' t emphasis enough the world "heavily" in that sentence. Art is in the eyes of the beholder.

In response to the OP, its known around the net via the http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Divergence for this game and by other forum members who are hard core fans, that the FO universe is based on an alternative end to WWII and its following stylized representation of 1950s American culture (with some more advanced tech thrown in as envisioned in the 1950s) also, a lot of Sci-Fi stories written during the 1950's heavily influenced this popular series.

So that's the starting and inspiration point for all the FO games to date and FO4 just continues this overall theme.

On a personal note, I"m having an absolute ball in this game, great atmosphere (if you've got the hardware to replicate it) and can see many replays coming up for me as per usual with Beth games.

Good point. But wasn't slavery added in one of the DLC for Fallout 3? It is possible it will be put in Fallout 4.

If we count Synth as slaves though (which I don't) one could argue Fallout 4 also deals with slavery. There's also the "are Synths people" thing

New Vegas deals with slavery, it's one of the main issues of the game.

What specifically did I ignore? you never made a counter argument to my post.

Fallout 4 had THE biggest slavery based story line of any of the games. How does Fallout 3 slavery put it above Fallout 4 when Fo4 had MORE slavery in it then Fallout 3?

And no, slavery isn't ballsy, its been in games for decades, its not even a hot button issue anymore.

how 2 delete posts

Slavery is a lot more realistic in comparison to Fallout 4, where they're just robots.

Slavery at its core with all these camps and people being sold, and even being able to sell a kid into slavery, is a lot more mature than scientists creating robots and then claiming ownership of them when they wanna rebel.

Cause you are simply placing your personal assumptions and experiences as a global fact that they are not. Maybe you think NV is broken as hell, but if you fetch my previous Metacritic results you will see that NV is on the same press rating level F4 is and far higher in the user ratings.

=====================

Maybe because F3 has had a 91 press score and 7.9 userscore and F:NV has had a very solid 84 press score with a 8.5 userscore. Both titles ratings are from a time where metabombing was not really a problem.

This showed a bit the direction where people felt entertained more.

And the hope resulting from that was that Bethesda maybe cut a bit of the best pieces of the Obsidian bit to make the Fallout 4 cake most tasty.

Instead they simply ignored NV′s existence and tried on Fallout 4 on their own. With again a 84 press score (same as NV) and a far lower userscore.

>Can think and feel

>Just robots

That's not maturity... just like Witcher showing [censored] every 5 minutes doesn't make it mature.

I did nothing of the sort. I stated my opinion of the game, nothing more.

I know these questions weren't directed at me but... I wouldn't count Synths as "slaves" even though the game tries to make us think that way. I couldn't give a crap about the whole synth story line but that's just me.

But for those who do care about it, I can see why one would say it deals with slavery more than Fallout 3 does. But I would argue that humans put into slavery matter more than machines built to serve.

I am not sure about other Bethesda games and if they have slavery or not. But I know Fallout 3 has it and IMO Fallout 4 doesn't. So are they just going soft?

I'd also like to point out that complaining about bugs isn't really complaining about the game.

All Bethesda games have bugs. It's Bethesda.

Look at the game itself when comparing two games.

I've watched many movies and played many games that have horrible, dumb conversation, and story.

Fallout 4 isn't the best. It is predictable, easy to understand, but it's still in the OK zone.

I like the twists and sentimental in the story. The whole story is just simple, but not anywhere being bad.

You ignored my post where I pointed out how you didn't even legitimately respond to it.

Right but there is enough in the game to suggest that said robots are as sentient and free-thinking as humans. This is why the issue of slavery is more interesting in Fallout 4 because we have enough to state both sides are right or wrong. Instead of another game like New Vegas or 3 were slavery is immediately portrayed as a bad thing.

I'd say it's more mature that you actually have to think if what you're doing is right or wrong oppose to "No what you're doing is wrong here have some meaningless negative karma points"


Again, you're using user score from a site that has no quality control, doesn't moderate user scores and doesn't require people to own the game to write a review. You can make several accounts, go to fallout 4 and just write "butts" as a review with any score and it'll remain, you just need to make it obvious you aren't astro-turfing it by not making the accounts in a row on the same day.

They're machines built to serve. That's a fact.

It would be absolutely insulting to compare that to actual slavery, where humans are kidnapped and have no choice but to suffer abuse, [censored], and be dehumanized.

For you to compare that to the creators of robots wanting to keep their robots, that's just a slap in the face to people who have been affected by slavery.

Fallout 3 also has the "help the synth" type quests. Sure not as a grand scale as Fallout 4 but it is still in the game, one top of dealing with actual human slavery. Kids put into slavery to boot.

To me machines aren't people. Just like how I don't care for any of the robot companions and or the AI in Old World Blues. The Synths were built to serve they are machines. We can turn them out by the thousands in no time at all. Who cares? I wouldn't care more about cloned humans more than programmed machines.

Since you're basically the only reasonable poster in this thread commenting about this, I'll talk to you!

I think the main point of FO4's synth line isn't actually about slavery, but about whether or not "thinking, feeling" machines matter. That is, after all, the Hot Topic Du Jour. It's what all the big names in technology and philosophy are currently wrestling with, and we've just recently had a huge line of blockbusters dealing with the topic (from Avengers: Age of Ultron all the way to Her).

No, I think they just felt that synth slavery was a big enough thing that they didn't need human slavery, as it would just be redundant.

Also, even back in Fallout 3, it was said Ashur's slave empire doesn't so as far as Boston. Marcella from the Abbey, which is closer to The Pitt then Boston is, said she has only heard RUMORS of The Pitt up in her area, and the distance of D.C. and Ronto the furthest places we know Ashur gets slaves from, are far closer to The Pitt then Boston is. the slaver network of the central east coast doesn't do up that high.

Again you are turning it as required. 95% of both userscores are from the years 2008-2010, a time where metabombing was not really a problem before. And i also primarily compared the official press-ratings (that has not to be controlled as it simply is the collection of the official press ratings pages). I added userscores and F4 scores just as reference points.

You seem not to understand the point i was trying to make cause it got asked why Bethesda should have added a bit of Obsidian to their game. Maybe my english is too bad.

Not really. It's a common theme in sci-fi where the advanced A.I. eventually break their coding and become free-thinking and sentient, how is the synths any different? There are synths who want out and if they show any evidence of being sentient their entire personality and memories are wiped and re-programmed, they show fear of that and you can hear synths talking about it in secret in the Institute.

Now your mentality right here, where you see them as property? How is that different from a slave owner who won't recognize his slaves as being anything other then property and human trash?

You say I'm being offensive? You're the one using slaver/slave-owner logic of "they aren't human, they're property"


Oh don't feed me that bullcrap, you were being obvious what you were trying to do. It was no "reference point" you were straight up using flimsy metacritic user scores, which again have no quality control, to make it look like Fallout 4 is more hated by fans and players. You don't even take into consideration that, yes, a site that has no quality control, a site that doesn't moderate it's own user scores, a site that can easily be astro-turfed might have false reviews, why? Because that destroys the badly made point you're trying to make.

I would agree the Synths as slaves isn't the bigger issue Bethesda was trying to get at. Synths as people would be the bigger debate which would then turn use towards the issue of slavery. If you think they are people then chances are you would think it would be wrong to enslave them. If you think they are a fancy toaster that can be mass produced then who gives a crap?

So Ashur is the only slaver out in the Wasteland? They couldn't come up with another group or groups of slavers or at least people who are okay with human slavery?

They're 3/5ths human.

This is a moral philosophy argument. Let's not have high hopes of seeing intelligible responses incoming.

This. Why would you create something to serve and then program it to want to be free? So either they've achieved sentience or their creators are amoral, masochistic monsters.

No, he just runs the show along the east coast.

They could have, but there is no reason too. Not EVERY place in the world would have resorted to slavery post-apocalypse. and after the massive slaver presences in both New Vegas, and the synth slavery in Fallout 4, they likely just wanted to take a step back a bit, because it was becoming too redundant.

They did the same thing with the Daedra in TES. Morrowind and Oblivion had large daedric presence, and then Skyrim only had a little because they felt it was being too overused.