ya the one thing i reallly liked about oblivion was joining and advancing in factions....theres alot in this game too. BOS, talon company, regulators, enclave, slavers, outcasts, Reillys rangers, the run away slave people.

For the record, I'm not a TES fan (but I dabble). I've been a Fallout fan for the past decade and I've been supporting this idea since Jason Mical did an amazing job of incorporating races into character creation in the Fallout PnP. There are a lot of things I don't consider Fallouty. Playable races isn't one of them.



Yes, Fallout is about humanity. But don't forget that Ghouls and Super Mutants were humans at one point, and deep down inside, they still are. Does having deformities make you any less human? Wasn't that one of the points that Black Isle was trying to make all along? This is an area that can be explored in more depth by allowing the player to play the game through a mutant's eyes. Imagine trying to save the wasteland for the good of humanity while being ostracized by the very people you're trying to save.

I don't even think that Beth's the best developer to handle this. If Beth were to incorporate races, it'll be for purely aesthetic reasons. Just for the coolness factor and for the sake of playing a different race. If anyone could pull off the emotional turmoil of playing as a "sub-human" mutant, it would be the Black Isle devs.

But they have several years to work on their storytelling prowess before the next FO comes out. So if ever they incorporate races, I hope they can prove me wrong.

I'm not a fan of the non-canon "half-mutants" and playable deathclaws in Jason's PnP 2.0. But they were removed from the unfinished version 3 of Jason's PnP which I cooperated on and which we're now trying to finish at:

http://pnp.fallout.wikia.com

LOL. Me neither. Thanks for the link.

See, those things I consider non-Fallouty. But Ghouls and Super Mutants have been a part of Fallout lore forever. I mean, how many times do we have to replay the experience of running into a ghoul for "the first time" and saying "Oh my god, you're hideous!" For once, I'd like to be on the other side of the spectrum.

By the way, I haven't had much time to actually work on the PnP wiki, but I also removed the Wasteland locations and factions (they are cool, but Wasteland is not officially part of the Fallout setting, and there might be another Wasteland game coming), although I do intend to put them on a separate page for those who do want to include them or to simply play a Wasteland game using the SPECIAL system. I replaced them with some of the Van Buren places and factions instead, as well as ones cut from FO2 or only mentioned there, like Dayglow or the Abbey.

I also intend to remove the Wasteland weapons, as well as most of the modern real-world ones (including the ones from FO2, which the devs admitted were a mistake), replacing them with weapons from Van Buren and Fallout 3.

And yes, the new version only has humans, super mutants and ghouls as playable races.

I'm not debating that Ghouls and Mutants weren't human, I'm debating that switching the race of the protagonist to Ghoul or Mutant would remove an element of story telling that makes Fallout, well Fallout. One element of the Fallout games that people often ignore, is that they're about humans who (ideally) rise above the common vices and flaws of humanity to make the Wasteland a better place in the long term. You can argue that you could do this as a ghoul or mutant, but you really can't. Ghouls and mutants are a consequence of the war, both indirectly and directly created by humans. Marcus said it best in Fallout 2 when he talked about his Brotherhood of Steel friend and the Vault Dweller. Fallout is about humans who rise above the rest to make the world a better place. This factor would be non-existent with playable Ghouls, Super Mutants, and robots. That's my two cents, anyway.

As I said before, Fallout 1 was originally going to allow you to continue playing after being dipped in FEV and mutated, but it was cut because of time constraints.

Oh come on, you'd love it. It'd be like Cooking Mama, but with geckos and bloat fly meat instead.

Personally, I just think there's more than enough room in the franchise for any number of spin-offs while not treading on the existing series. I've seen a number of good ideas thrown around these forums in the time I've been here. And many of them are met with knee-jerk negative reactions. Mostly, I think, because there's this view that the only "Fallout" game we'll ever see is Fallout 4, 5, 6, etc.

I'd agree that there's certain things you might not want to mess with in the "main" storyline with the flagship series of the franchise. But I also think there's more than enough room to explore some other themes with spin-offs and games of other genres.

I'd love to play a point-and-click Adventure-type game set in the Fallout world, for example. (Mostly because I really enjoyed Full Throttle back in the day, I suppose.) Or a squad-based FPS action game. Or, crazy idea... a turn-based game!!!

I think it could be quite a compelling concept to play as a SuperMutant or Ghoul. Frankly, I think it would be most compelling if you weren't given a choice in the matter (just to better get the head of a Ghoul... no one asks to be turned into a rotting corpse doomed to wander the Wastes for who knows how long...) But because of that, I think it might work better as a spin-off or one-off DLC or something, than a central theme of the ongoing series.

Interesting. Never knew that...

Yeah, if no one in the game actually registered I was anything other than human - it'd sort of invalidate the whole point of it. If it wasn't a significant game choice, then I'd just as soon not have it as an option at all. (Personally, this is why I think it might work better as a spin-off game where you didn't have a choice to play as a human - less dialogue choices to worry about that way.)

Agreed. I think it has the potential, at least, to be a pretty compelling storyline, really. But yeah, I'd worry about Bethesda focusing more on making it "neat" than actually having you deal with what it means to be a mutant.

damn right.

I don't understand why? Care to explain?

Here's my take:

Forget about Robots and Talking Deathclaws. I'm more concerned with Ghouls and Super Mutants who are still humans, despite having undergone dramatic changes. Most of them still having their humanity intact, and are capable of intelligent thoughts and emotions. They are also still prone to the same vices and flaws as regular humans. Take Harold and Set. One chooses to quietly accept the fact that he's different, while the other takes on a more hostile stance. Both run their own settlements, one on the basis of finding acceptance, the other as a means for achieving power. Two very real human qualities.

Ghoul or Super Mutant protagonists would have to overcome the same challenges and make the same moral choices as any normal human would. Even more so, with the added challenge of people being less inclined to help them, or even shooting them on sight. When the times comes that you have to make the ultimate choice, there are several ways you can go about this. As a Super Mutant, do you subscribe to the thinking that you're superior to normal humans and treat them as a weaker species that needs to be dipped? Or do you use your strength to protect them from others like yourself? As a Ghoul, do you succumb to your need for vengeance after all the hardships the "normals" have put you through? Or do you save them, in spite of everything they've done to you? Isn't this in line with rising above rest and making the wasteland a better (or worse) place for all?

I imagine people are resistant to this idea because the Fallout series has been about regular humans with regular abilities overcoming insurmountable odds. Playing a Super Mutant with advanced capabilities might undermine that. The answer to that is different SPECIAL base values, coupled with different minimum and maximum ranges. That way, their inhuman strengths are balanced by their inhuman weaknesses. Super Mutants may be stronger and more durable than the average human. But they are less agile and of course, less intelligent. They may be able to take on a Deathclaw empty-handed, but they wouldn't be cracking any computers. This is no different from setting your Strength and Endurance to 10, and your Agility and Intelligence to 1 during a regular game.

I say, there are four games devoted to regular human heroes, it'd be nice if the adventures extended to the other kind of inhabitants of the Wasteland, the ones constantly being relegated to the roles of shopkeepers and enemies. Besides, the option to play as a human would still be there. I believe that it fits in nicely with the original Fallout goal of having no two playthroughs that were alike. You play the game as a Human. Then you play the game as a Ghoul and see what new circumstances have appeared.

Once again, I'm open to the idea of races as an opportunity for an enhanced roleplaying experience, with different dialogues and storylines branching out depending on what race you picked. But if it's just going to be for appearance's sake, might as well not bother.

I think it'll be hilarious if we all get Fallout 4 the same day, after all the dev interviews and stuff, and come to find out that you start as. . .


Humans.


It'd be messed up to the max. Just to do all the interviews and only play live in first person, never answering questions about race because it's obviously human, right?

WRONG

Because once you get out of whatever you get hit by RADIATION! And become a GHOUL!

Then go to vault 87 and become a SUPER MUTANT!

Dun dun dunnnn.

Err...whut?

Ghouls and Super Mutants are a consequence of humanity. Humans were the ones who destroyed the world, humans were the ones who directly and indirectly created Ghouls and Super Mutants. Essentially what I'm saying is that humans should be the ones who fix the world that they destroyed, not Ghouls, and not Super Mutants. The fact that Ghouls and Super Mutants were once human is of no consequence, Ghouls are no longer human (even if they are the same under the skin, which in many ways they actually aren't due to the radiation destroying reproduction among other things), and Super Mutants are little more than mindless destructive monsters in the Capital Wasteland. There was no strain of the F.E.V. virus that was modified like there was at Mariposa, so the only "intelligent" Super Mutants you have are flukes, and in very, very small numbers.

What I meant was that I like being a vault-dweller. I like the storytelling effect of us going from our snug little underground utopia to the big, scary wasteland. The Vaults are for Fallout what the Shire was for The Lord of the Rings--they give the player a comfortable place to start out, and set up a stark contrast when the player is faced with the horrors of the real world.




Yah, I suppose you got a point there.

Okay, now that's an explanation I can understand. Not a simple 'it's just not Fallout.'

The only problem with being a Super Mutant would be the fact that no Human or Ghoul perhaps would like you. Afterall most Super Mutants they see are trying to capture and enslave them, why would you be any different?

Trying to play a main quest or any other side quests would be difficult so it would be hard to implament it with Super Mutants. Then comes the fact of having a seperate opening and background for your character. If they could do this then it would be pretty amazing but I can't think of much for it. All I can think of is having Super Mutant towns or camps for you to go in and trade etc and maybe having an alternate MQ to fit your character and SM only side quests.

Have you played Fallout 2 or Tactics?

See:

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Broken_Hills

That's more like an "endgame" alternate path thing. I don't mind that, as it's a permanent change to your character and, with it, the progression of the game (as it WAS part of the Main Quest and Fallout 1 was fairly linear).

Starting as a Super Mutant though, demands a completely different situation. I don't think anyone has the patience for multiple races for starting out. What are we going to do, a Broken Hills-esque starting place? Humans and muties in harmony? Please.

As said earlier, humanity is a major factor of the Fallout series.

Fallout 1 was hardly linear, given that you didn't have to find the water chip to finish, and there were only two things required to finish the game (destroying the vats and the Cathedral), which could be done in any order. You could get to that point in a number of ways.

Compared to that, the main plot of FO2 and FO3 is much more linear.

Does anyone remember a role playing game called Gamma World ? Well anyway in Gamma World you where allowed to choose or roll for your mutations, you rolled for one that gave you a benefit and then you rolled for one that gave you a disadvantage. If your going to have mutants in the next fallout game then they should do something like that.
Races in Fallout I really don't like the idea. I'd rather them just make a new game like Gamma World,or Rifts than to screw with fallout

New races? Well maybe. I mean I suppose they will have to come up with some new stuff as well as a new story. I would hope that they were very carefull and thoughtful about it. There was a lot of way out stuff in FO2 that frankly did not belong I thought. I agree with those who have said No intelligent talking deathclaws, Androids or Aliens !! Please!

Some new types of mutations might be plausible, but lets not ape anymore 50's thrillers. Otherwise we might find ourselves fighting Gogzilla.

What I think the game really needs are factions and alliances and the ability to interact with them and change the course of things also the ability to start your own town or take over an existing one.

Maybe more ethnicities of humans, although I can only think of like one more maybe two. I really think more races aren't needed, the only added race should be ghoul if any, Super Mutant would be stupid to play as considering they have an iq of roughly 23...

The ability to become a ghoul or super mutant during gameplay would be interesting though. But with the latter it could break theT games storyline.

Not all of them. E.g.:

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Lieutenant
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Marcus
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fawkes
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Toccamatta

Have you played Fallout 1 or 2? Geez...