Can just as well go the other way and say that dragon age or other games where you control a group is a squad level strategy game.
Note in a real life infantry squad you would have roles, machine gunner and perhaps a anti tanks weapons. You also has specialties like medic, radio man and grenade launchers, who perform both their speciality and are gunners.

Now replace the heavy weapon guy with a wizard and the attached engineer/ demo guy with the thief, the infantry with swordmen and you have the default role-playing group.
War never changes.

As they did in Fallout 3, I do not see any more fleshing out would be needed as you then start to give the player attributes he don't share. Has run into multiple games I did not like because they wanted me to be somebody I felt unnatural. Bonus for dragon age to actually have multiple starts who makes sense.


Ty, will probably check it out, would probably run from my laptop who is a bonus.


Yes very easy to make a linear game with little attention to detail and a idiot plot, they are called licensed games Should have a warning label like cigarette packs, this game probably svcks.
Back-story for Morrowind was very deep with an incredible world building. Yes the game had problems but they was game play and levelling issues, not the world setting.

The shooting problem is because your gun is firing to the right of you, even then aiming your gun is not in front of your right eye, so your bullets hit the wall to the right of you, far worse with minigun type weapons you fire from your hip, VAT ignore this problem then calculating hit chance. Not noticed the hole problem except from plasma weapons who go off then hitting chicken wire while bullets pass.

Honestly? I thought a fair bit higher of Fallout 3 until I played New Vegas. I know this sounds bad, but Bethesda, please just sell Obsidian the rights to Fallout or never make a Fallout game again, and give them Fallout 4 to make. No offense, but they handled the series a couple magnitudes better than you did. Fallout: New Vegas deserves the Fallout 3 title, and your game deserves to be the spin-off (Fallout: DC). If you are going to keep making Fallout games, at least let them get in on the action with more NV-style spinoffs. Don't let the way they showed you up keep the franchise out of their hands in the future.

I sure hope Bethesda will copy Bioware in lots of ways in the future, like companions having responses to situations, 3rd person perspective only like in Mass Effect and Dragon Age and accompanying superb animation of your main character. Not the flimsy one like it is now.

I am playing NV at the moment and it is GREAT. But it couldn't have existed without FO3. You can do so much with the gaming environment that they created when they made FO3. Take away the pip-boy interface and you could use it as the setting for so many other games.

I know not everyone is a fan (and a lot of this is sadly mired in controversy related to arguments about the true heritage of these games) but FO3 represented the best game ever made at the time IMHO. Sure, it can be built on and improved and others can bring a fresh perspecitve to that. But let's have a bit more credit where it is due.

Has not played New Vegas yet, but obviously you would see an improvement the same way you can see an improvement from Oblivion to Fallout 3. Physic in Oblivion is cartoony in fallout 3 it feels more real, better graphic with far improved effects, hard to tell about gameplay as Oblivion and Fallout 3 is very different but the obvious level scaling features is mostly gone.
As New Vegas basically the same game as Fallout 3 they has used most of their time on gameplay.

I was leery of playing FO3 but just got the GOTY recently after reading about the mods. I am now playing with a slew of mods, and I've been having a freaking blast. I've logged at least 18 hours and I'm only at level 5, due to mods like Fallout Wanderers Edition, Marts Mutant Mod, and various other mods. Oh, and the EVE mod is badass for Energy weapons. Yeah, the writing svcks, but the immersion is incredible, and I am a huge fan of the first two games.

Only two flaws I see are, I created a character to become a stealth type character, but by the time I was level 30, with the almost perfect perk, then gathering the bobbleheads I had all of my skills at 100 and 10 in S.P.E.C.I.A.L. I was then able to use any type of weaponry becuase I was skilled with it, and I kept getting confused on what loadout I wanted since every weapon was good to use.

And caps are pretty easy to gather but it's no biggy.

I didn't read other posts but I will say this anyways:

1) You shouldn't be relying on every aspect of a game to make you feel like it's an RPG. Don't want to "master everything?" Then don't.
2) You level up "to fast", by definition you don't if you play the main storyline, go do side quests AFTER the main story?
3) How could you possibly compare Mass Effect, a game which could be beaten in two days, including all the optional and DLC stuff? When fallout 3 has hundreds of hours of gameplay
I easily had 120 hours in ONE file, did maybe 3 story-line quests, and did only side quests explore. I was still missing over 90% of the games fast travel locations (meaning I hadn't even found those places) still hadn't explored over 75% of the game, and still was only level 17.
4) The games graphics aren't designed to be up to date and the using the best possible game engine. It was designed to look good at max graphics ya, and you can download high-res texture mods if you're THAT much of a "[censored] era" gamer where graphics only matter to you. On this note as well, this game engine was used because it allows the community, the players and modders to use G.E.C.K, create our own game, mods, areas, people, etc. Give us an industry professional level engine to use such as Bioware, and I guarentee you, 98% of the modders dissappear.
6)You say perks ruin the game and you can master everything? Excuse me but, my Mass Effect Biotics character after a few playthroughs could use every single thing in the game, and had basically everything maxed, or close to.
7)Everything else you [censored]ed about is subjective, and based on your personal views, not everyones.


Stop trolling a community of gamers who actually love their game and go kiss BioWares ass some more.

Is there a mod that changes the appalling visuals of energy weapon's critical hits which look like you are in Tron virtual reality?

How on earth did developers not think to have organic and realistic visuals of such effects? They are the worst effects I ever saw, remember what happens in Mass Efffect 2 when you kill an enemy with incendiary ammo?

Who cares?

Seriously dude, don't go around necroing whiney threads that have no purpose. I agree that Fallout 3 is pretty crappy in a lot of aspects, but I don't go posting and necroing threads.

Yes I QQ, I'll admit it, but I know when to back down.

As far laser/plasma weapons go, they are supposed to be reminiscent of the infamous "death ray" guns of 1950s sci-fi B movies. Go watch some of those old movies where someone was killed by a blaster and you'll see what I mean. Fallout 3 is an alternate science/reality/history universe stuck in the norms and culture of the 1950s, so the laser weapons kill people in fashions that people during the 1950s (B-movies) would have thought of.

Other than that, my guess would be the limitations of the engine were a part of it too.

Wait ... a thread about "fundamental flaws" of Fallout 3 ... and most it does is criticizing game mechanics? Fallout 3 had quite some fundamental flaws, yes, but they were deeply woven into the very fabric of its background, starting with the fact that the world looks like the war finished 20 years ago at most, not 200 ...

Yea, I think it's supposed to look cheesy. I like it. It reminds me of Marvin the Martian.

Isn't it a little late for you to be crying about FO3? I still enjoy the game and feel that it's fine, especially for the time period it was made in. I don't need to argue though, your comments are irrelevant to me. All I had to read was your first two sentences to know you have no appreciation for different RPGs and lack the understanding of them as well.

don't play it then, you're just another bethesda basher.

Yah i hate how they some people think that Obsidian is like far better than Bethesda well...there not. They both have their flaws and bonuses. But is somebody forgeting that bethesda saved the Fallout franchise. :wink_smile:

the OP sounds pretty ignorant. They don't acknowledge that Bethesda had to "pioneer" Fallouts rebirth. considering what Bethesda had to do in the time they had, id say that its a pretty awesome achievement on their part.

Well looking at the death animations of the old games...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMLbEAxjzj8

But that aside, every game is going to have fundamental flaws. Not much point in whining about it anymore, its too late. The game's been out.

I stopped reading after seeing the words fundamentally flawed. That's quite an accusation to an award-winning game with a considerable fan base (point being, a game generally considered good and successful).

Just a little reminder, Beth was only the highest bidder. You had big companies like Trojka and Bioware too.

Anyhooo, OP has a a lot of valid points, and especially about those companions being lifeless cannon fodders. But then again, you are called the 'Lone Wanderer' so I guess I could make an exception here. *shrugs*

What !! you say Copy , i cant accept that word i do hope the BGS will never have too Copy anything maybe they get inspiration from other games but Copy that would be a disgrace imo .

I can't think of a single RPG where NPCs responded differently depending on what you were wearing. (besides faction based armor)
Also Biowares RPG's are fundamentally different (still very enjoyable)
Bioware focuses on narrowing the environment and player story to accomodate more development for the things OP mentioned (better 3rd person, interesting animations, companions etc.)
Bethesda focuses more on building HUGE worlds to explore with some NPC/Companion interaction but it isn't the main focus.
Admittedly niether game studio produces PURE RPG experiences but i think of that as a good thing. (well maybe Dragon age is pure but thats another story lol)
I will say though that i hope Bethesda improves on animation quality and deeper skill-trees/perks etc. (also a better written main story would be nice)

I was hoping this thread died...

But in Fallout 2 in some places people would make funny comments if you're wearing Combat or Power Armor of some kind. Not much other than that.