Fallout 3 is fundamentally flawed : Fallout 3

» Tue May 17, 2011 2:10 pm

things don't decay in space.

they may not decay to oxidation or some factor like that but cosmic radiation does horrible things to objects in space (the least of which is electronics) and then there is Solar Flares. which reek havoc with, if not straight out frying Orbital objects

» Tue May 17, 2011 9:36 am

Also, Daggerfall, Morrowind and Fallout 3 all had a big stompy robot as a major plot point.

Morrowind has a big stompy robot somewhere along the main quest? Maybe I should stop re-rolling my characters and try to finish the main quest at least once.

Oblivion had a big stompy daedra prince as a major plot point. Does that count as well?

» Tue May 17, 2011 1:13 am

I registered just to post this topic after completing Fallout 3(GOTY edition) for the first time.

Many of these flaws are detrimental to the very core of RPG aspect of the game which is the main reason(RPG) I got the game in the first place.

-you level up extremely fast, it is inexcusable that at the half point of the game you reach level 30, have almost all of your attributes to 10 and all of your skills to 100. At this early point the game ceases to be an RPG game

-money/bottlecaps and related skills like barter are completely irrelevant, even if money wasn't irrelevant repair is much more important in this regard and it has another function

-skill buffing perks are completely irrelevant

-perks system is further conducive to ruining RPG aspect, there is no specialization of any kind, there are no perks that you can branch out specializing in that field, you can be the master of everything which is inexcusable for an RPG game

-there are huge bugs in quests, for example if you kill the ghouls in the Tenpenny Tower quest, the residents randomly relate to you like you both killed the ghouls and you moved the ghouls in the building, how can such huge bugs even happen, they pretty much destroy any kind of satisfaction you get for completing quests...

-your influence on the world is completely unexploited feature. For example, why couldn't you, if you had the money, speech skill and you killed Tenpenny not take ownership of the building and then decide which tenants you want in the building and even have the option of bringing in various characters you meet in the world as tenants? Are such things obvious only to me? There are many such examples with many other locations and quests, this one example would at least make money relevant.

-V.A.T.S. kill camera needs complete workup, most of the time it goes through floors, walls, ground, always tracking dislodged heads. I noticed that the most satisfying kill slow-moes were when you see yourself from behind killing the target, when you see a profile view of both yourself and the target or if the perspective is behind the target and you see yourself in the distance. Every other camera shot is pretty much an annoying failure.

-laser(orange), plasma(green) and alien weapon's(blue) kill effects are seriously flawed, they look more like body disappearing effects you can find in Anchorage simulation than what they should look like, especially when flawed V.A.T.S. camera comes in. These visual effects are so bad and artificial looking I wished I could turn off V.A.T.S., which is btw a fine feature otherwise.

-it greatly bothered me when NPCs always react to you like you are wearing wasteland tattered outfits, I'm wearing a pristine Hellfire Power Armor or Chinese stealth suit and I might as well be wearing tattered slave scraps as far as NPCs are concerned, and furthermore, they shouldn't be able to recognize you if you are wearing such outfits, there should have been a template dialog option for that which may further branch into different dialog options. This would avoid stupid things like Brotherhood or Outcast addressing you as a local even if you are wearing exactly what they are wearing and they can't see your face.

-it saddened me deeply that 3rd person animation of the character wasn't on the same level of quality as animation of character in Mass Effect, otherwise I would have played in 3rd person perspective all the time, it is after all meant to be played that way with all the cool looking clothes and armor, but also there are many issues of clothes/armor/weapon clipping...

-your companions never react to any situation, location, dialog, or quest...I guess I expected too much after K.O.T.O.R. I.,II., and the management of your companions and their development is sorely lacking.

There are other major flaws but I can't think of them right now, I just had to get this of my chest because they pretty much ruined what could have otherwise been a magnificent game.

P.S.
Since Bethesda acquired Rage, does that mean that we will finally see its revolutionary animation system in future Bethesda products?
Just imagine how fantastic Fallout 3 would have been with such animation.

I agree with somethings that you said. Leveling was really quick; and after a while specialization doesn't really matter as you become a Wasteland god. And the graphics/animations can be bad at times; But smart gamers don't focus on graphics. A lot of the things you said are kind of random though, like things you would just like to see implemented, not huge flaws; and apparently the fact that this game isn't absolutely perfect and made for you seemed to tick you off.

For example, Companion depth. It isn't a huge part of the game, and not a "fundamental flaw". Sure it would've been nice to have. It was actually implemented in the sequel, so they did put it in after feedback by fans. What your saying is like someone saying that "Guns don't jam in the game, it is a fundamental flaw."

Your reasons for the game being fundamentally flawed are picky. The game of course has it problems, but so do other RPGs in different fields. You should just open yourself up to the game instead of picking out things that other games have and Fallout doesn't.

» Tue May 17, 2011 3:06 am

Don't play it then. this forum is for people to talk about the game not complain about it

and just to touch on this, I must have missed it last night.

you are incorrect here, one of the Strengths of this forum is to voice our displeasure and to provide constructive criticism.
Praise the Devs all you want but if no one tells them what they are doing wrong, they will just get it wrong again.

» Tue May 17, 2011 4:18 am

and just to touch on this, I must have missed it last night.

you are incorrect here, one of the Strengths of this forum is to voice our displeasure and to provide constructive criticism.
Praise the Devs all you want but if no one tells them what they are doing wrong, they will just get it wrong again.

:thumbsup:

» Tue May 17, 2011 2:12 am

I think the only things that I didn't like about the game were the lack of scripted quests (only 20 named quests D:) but exploration kinda made up for that (above ground wasn't too fun, all the same).

Annnd the second one.. I played it for roughly 6 months and then the disc grew a huge crack in it because of the faulty case it came in... I can't play for 5 minutes without freezing/exploding xbox... :sadvaultboy:

Now I've had to return to Oblivion...

bliviongate:

» Tue May 17, 2011 2:33 am

(only 20 named quests D:)

Is that the original version??? So the GOTY version would have 20 plus however many those add-ons added???

I ask because I've completed 17 and it feels like I've barely scratched the surface. Perhaps I'm closer to being "done" than I thought.

» Tue May 17, 2011 2:44 am

Is that the original version??? So the GOTY version would have 20 plus however many those add-ons added???

I ask because I've completed 17 and it feels like I've barely scratched the surface. Perhaps I'm closer to being "done" than I thought.

Yea yea, sorry that's only the vanilla game. I didn't count add-ons though those were rather fun.

» Tue May 17, 2011 8:29 am

Yea yea, sorry that's only the vanilla game. I didn't count add-ons though those were rather fun.

Thanks, I must be closer to being "done" the vanilla version than I thought because I've completed 17 and not yet any of the add-ons. And those 3 I'm missing may be part of the "final" set of quests, since I haven't completed that yet.

It's funny because there's still a GREAT amount of the map I haven't explored yet and so I thought there must be many, many more quests. But what you say makes sense since I am at level 22 already, so I suppose that would mean I've just about completed most of the vanilla quests. Oh well, still gonna explore the map some more before I go after those add-on quests

. I just LOVE this game. So fun. So, so fun.

Thanks so much for answering my question. I know us noob's can ask some boring questions and get on veterans nerves sometimes, but it seems here the community is always helpful. Thanks again.

EDIT: LOL, and then I read that you've just joined the community too!! LOL, you're still a veteran to me though because you've completed the game and I haven't. Yet.

» Tue May 17, 2011 12:32 am

Yeah.. I just got attached to the forums recently (excitement for Skyrim) Played Morrowind, FO3, and Oblivion many times over, though...

» Tue May 17, 2011 1:16 am

Also, Daggerfall, Morrowind and Fallout 3 all had a big stompy robot as a major plot point.

Morrowind had a big stompy robot in it? I don't remember that at all.

» Tue May 17, 2011 8:06 am

Morrowind had a big stompy robot in it? I don't remember that at all.

Did you manage to miss the huge ass golem that Dagoth Ur was building?

» Tue May 17, 2011 10:04 am

Did you manage to miss the huge ass golem that Dagoth Ur was building?

In the bowels of his volcano lair? If I'm honest, I was too busy panicking and trying to take out the heart of lorkhan before my levitation ran out to properly take in exactly what it was he was building down there.

Still, quintissential supervillain behaviour, that. But he loses marks for not getting the thing operational.

» Tue May 17, 2011 4:36 am

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:TR-creature-Imperfect.jpg. It wasn't as big as some of the other big stompy robots Bethesda has done, though.

» Tue May 17, 2011 2:03 pm

Is there a mod that changes the appalling visuals of energy weapon's critical hits which look like you are in Tron virtual reality?

How on earth did developers not think to have organic and realistic visuals of such effects? They are the worst effects I ever saw, remember what happens in Mass Efffect 2 when you kill an enemy with incendiary ammo?

Stop comparing it to Mass Effect, as NinjaFish said, a game that could be completed 100% in a mere 2-3 days, to a game that can't possibly be completed 100% in 2-3 days, and yes the game is what it is, it can be changed, we've known all these since 2008, and in my opinion it was pretty sad to register just to complain. *cough troll cough*

» Tue May 17, 2011 2:31 am

I never had any of the bugs said here.... and if you want to have ownership over a building and manage it, you should get off fallout and start playing Fable. If you don't like a game, then you should have known better to research it or rent it. If you bought a game you don't like, that's nobody's fault but your own.

» Tue May 17, 2011 9:03 am

Role playing just means playing a role. This can be done through selecting precreated characters (one or more of whom you identify with, like many other media such as books or film), or creating your own character according to certain rules. Complaining that a role playing game doesn't have "Feature X" is somewhat pointless unless it interferes with playing a role that is allowed in the game world. For example, I can't play a mysterious alien life form trying to enslave all of humanity or purge them from the surface of the planet in FO3... so what?

As for maxing skills in an RPG, this is a common element in various RPGs, including most MMOs today. Diversity of abilities comes from player choice of equipment and specific skills used. For example, in FO3, a character with the perk Radiation Resistance is going to be able to withstand certain areas far better than a character who did not choose that perk during development. A Pyromaniac character will probably prefer flame weapons due to the increased damage (and be in trouble facing anything resistant to flame) while a character without Pyromaniac may not care so much or have such a preference. A character exploring in a science lab suit for lost technology is admirable for the goal but is much more "squishy" than someone wearing heavy armor. Etc.

I'm not sure why people complain about the energy weapon effects. I play energy focused characters, and I find that even the base effects are okay. I also play with EVE mod which offers more effects. However, I just don't see why anyone would complain about an effect that is for a hypothetical weapon that doesn't exist and claim that some other effect is "more realistic" when, as stated, the weapons do not actually exist. These are concepts, after all.

» Tue May 17, 2011 2:23 pm

I feel as if this guy's a fink, ya dig?

» Tue May 17, 2011 7:34 am

Part of the reason I think you can't really compare fallout to something like KOTOR is how massive fallout is. It's like a completely different game where KOTOR is more "on-rails." (Though you choose which planet to go to, and it definitely disguises the on-rails feeling well. Pretty much the best RPG I've played, no argument. But I feel this RPG is a bit different.)

For me though, I did run into a few disappointments in Fallout 3. One of biggest was Mothership Zeta. I mean, it was sort of fun, but I had two huge problems with it:

1) Had no place in the Fallout universe. It was fun in it's own way but definitely did not feel like part of the game.
2) Insane difficulty for an already capped character. All aliens have super-omega-ultra-amazing shields. It's not that it isn't hard... not in the least bit. It's just annoying.

One of my biggest beefs with Fallout 3 in general is difficulty. It just feels too easy at times. Increasing the difficulty doesn't make it more difficult, it just makes the same mobs have more health and deal more damage. It just makes already existing enemies annoying instead of adding more enemies or spawning different combination or increasing AI tactics/loadouts. Mods are, of course, a god-send for fixing these problems.

That being said, it is flawed at points, but is still an amazing game in my opinion, and one I never get tired of going through every 4-5 months.

I also don't blame games for what they could have had. Makes no sense to me. It should be judged by what it already has.

» Tue May 17, 2011 2:41 am

I also don't blame games for what they could have had. Makes no sense to me. It should be judged by what it already has.

Yep, games are the way they are for a reason, be it cost, designer vision or feedback from previous games. When I wan a hard slog I play S.T.A.L.K.E.R. When i just want an impressive game I play Fallout or Oblivion. I hated K.O.T.O.R. and the earlier fallouts. They make have been better written, but I couldn't get past the boring gameplay.

» Tue May 17, 2011 5:26 am

I agree when you wrote that the animations svcked but it is good that people still make open world games I think it gives the games adventure even the animations and other things you mentioned svck