Yes, sort of like that indeed.

maybe bethesda games aren't for you

Well, then I find it so much more strange that I keep having to do these as part of the minute men quests. Much disappoint.

I just mentioned what I thought was the greatest weakness, there are strengths that by far balance out the weaknesses...

Fallout 3 only had 11 main quests and 3 intro quests.

Fallout 4 has 13 main quests and 22 for whatever faction you join(15 for the Institute).

Quest wise it is much larger.

The wikipedia quote is meaningless without further context. "Deriving from the concepts" and your earlier claim of "based on" are very different assertions. Sharing fantasy themes or dungeons doesn't make them the same. Is every game with a car a racing game? If a game features a racing mini-game, than does it become a racecar simulator? Extra credit: why do Thief fans not consider Thief 4 a sequel?

You keep getting upset and defensive for no apparent reason, and you're not able to defend your opinions. Your posts are not working in the real world the way you think they are in your head. You are welcome to use any definition you like, and categorize games however you like, but if you want to persuade others you need to do more than just throw words and a lot of emotion at the screen and hope they'll stick.

I meant to ask earlier, but that was deliberate phrasing, right?

It's actually meant to be a self-deprecating joke (e.g. "useless, no good dreamer"), which derails the pretension, in my head at least.

Think it's pretty safe to say the derived concepts are things like(well, besides the fantasy setting) class,stats like strength,experience points/level,loot,quests and the proceces of your character getting stronger by gaining/increasing those, and they being the deciding factor in winning the game, rather than dexterity or reflexes. I mean those things are pretty big part of the genre.

Indeed.

I looked twice at your screen name and realized what it was and I laughed.

Among the epithets that have been hurled at me over the years my favorites have been "navel gazer" and "goon."

Great screen name!

Well, back in my day, RPG's came with dice.....where are my dice? Yup, it's a bad RPG without them there dice! /facetiousness

Well, to be fair, you can't roll the dice around in your mouth and launch/spit them across the room for an attack roll without them. What fun is that?!

Fallout 4 is an RPG. It may not be as deep or rich as others but it still is. To say it isn't is silly and most of all wrong.
Is this so damn hard for people to understand?
Opinion=/=fact
Seems most people on these forums don't understand this

I've been playing FF games since Suoer Nintendo and I can tell you that they are RPGs. You're in the role of an individual caught up in a story that includes talking to a lot of people.

In Final Fantasy 7 I played the role of Cloud. In Final Fantasy 8 I played the role of Squall and so on. You are playing the role of someone in a story. Playing a role=role playing.

By the way people act you might as well say that Bioware doesn't make RPGs. They do, they just happen to be like Final Famtasy.

The first two Witchers are RPGs even though you are specifically one person. I haven't played the third one yet, don't know how it works.

There are many types of RPGs. Just because it doesn't fit the mold of the first two Fallout games doesn't mean that Fallout 4 is not an rpg.

Ah yes, the age old debate that has endured the entire history of this forum and still continues. "What is an RPG?"

Since there it has never really been clearly defined I doubt it will be clearly defined today in this thread. Thus...it really doesn't matter. If your idea of an RPG is met with this game and/or you are enjoying the game who really cares. And if this game does not entertain you and feels like a farce by your personally defined rpg desires then it's not the game for you.

Really, it's that simple. And any debate, personal attacks and insults to anyone for their personal opinion about it has and will continue to net warnings and bans and in the end resolve nothing about what is an rpg.

Anyway, please treat each other in a respectful way regardless of their own personal opinions of what makes an rpg a rpg. It's semantics really.

You're right, but that's not what I was saying. I was trying to point out that "derived concepts" is a pretty loose phrase. A racing game or farming simulator could use concepts derived from RPGs, strategy games, or whatever, and still not be the same type of game as the source.

Is every game that has stats an RPG? Is every game that has stats based on D&D? Is every game that exists an RPG, making it a totally meaningless label?

I don't care if people have different definitions or preferences, but it seems weird to me that some posts (not yours) seem to want to prevent any meaningful discussion.

how the hell the courier feel your character when u spend 4 DLC learn about your pass that was pre-stablish.

This article is write from someone that never play any time of Action RPG game, point. He do really bad comparison. Falllout 3 and Fallout 4 arent RPG game just understand that and stop [censored]ing about it. U are playing Actions RPG game, no hardcoe pen and paper RPG like Wasteland 2

That's why we call JRPGs JRPGs. When we say 'RPG' in western countries we mean a role-playing game that allows us to roleplay a character. And we refer to games like Baldur's Gate that give us a lot of freedom in choice and dialogue.

JRPGs however, aren't an RPG because of the freedom or dialogue they offer. They are RPGs due to the levelling and barter systems. Take a look at FF and Pokemon. Hence the renaming: JRPG.

WRPGs and JRPGs aren't the same. And it almost always comes down to 1 thing: WRPGs offer a lot of dialogue choices and ways to complete a quest. They also offer the player to create their very own character. Even allowed to choose their own race and class. Witcher 3 however lacked the character part. But the fact that the levelling system and dialogue system allowed the player to truly make their own Geralt, it held the status: WRPG.

So we're kind of complaining that the WRPG(RPG in our tongues) genre is dying in the AAA industry. FO4 lacks in dialogue, and character costumization. I know you have played many JRPGs and thus still view FO4 as RPG. Somehow... Yes somehow... FO4 comes closer to a JRPG in that aspect. And actually it comes much closer to games like Far Cry 3 and 4. A LOT actually. I mean... How much difference js there between Far Cry 4 and FO4? And so.... would you call Far Cry 4 an RPG?

(No intention to offend you or anything, in case you view this as a personal attack.)

All this "is it an rpg" "it's not an rpg"," it is an rpg", "is it true to the series* nonsense is giving me a headache. Who the 'F cares. If you like it, play it. If you don't, play something else. All the labels and whether or not it fills those labels is just getting stupid.

In my opinion, transforming this thread in that old discussion about "is this a rpg" its not productive.

The article has several valid points, we should focus on them....like:

Why Bethesda decided to change their formula regarding the protagonist? Why he now comes with a fixed background?

Why they opt for a dialog system that not only lack in clarity but is irrelevant (NPCs react the same way doesnt matter what you answer)?

Why so many combat quests (and Im not talking about the radiant ones)? 50h played and I probably killed thousand of beings..

u are sooooo wrong what u implied that is a RPG or JRPG for Wstern countries is a lie dude, that is just your opinion.

Fo3, FoNV, Fo4 are all RPG games (action-rpg). FF, Baldur Gate, Neverwinter, Witcher, Masss Effect, Dragon Age. ALLL RPG GAMES.

I dont care u like that they have more options or less options, the meter is they are what they are.

I will change FoNV for any ME or Fo3 or Fo4 game bc seriously the whole "rpg" way to get out of combat on some situation are just plain stupid sometimes making 0 senses.

Plus lets be real no meter what u ppl said, Fo4 PC decision are mine decisions since u can choose to resolve conflicts in different ways. Like after i get to the BOS i murder everyone up ther becoming a Hostiles to that faction, THAT was my decision and wasnt take for me.

Completely agreed with the article, FO4 is really just about as much of an RPG as Far Cry is. Hardly any choices , one voice for every character, 4 options of yes/no/what?/sarcastic and the "streamlining"of RPG mechanics we had before.

that is easy, bc Bethesda is trying new things.

LOL If fallout 4 was the same as NV or Fo3 but with the improve graphics only, i can guaranteed u that ALOT more ppl will be [censored] about it, and no just the minority of hard-core RPG fans.

I really miss that old dialogue system. :/

Im super tired of thie articles that just QQ about something that isnt true. When most website u go that arent complete [censored] are saying the game is actually pretty good. And not only that 85% or more of the ppl owning the game actually like it.

Just in sale numbers this game apple to more ppl that NV alone. And only time will said if this game actually win any GoTy that NV didnt. And ppl just keep saying this game is worst.

I just think is just a minority that keep complain that didnt get what they want so much.

Is more if this game was this totally garbage that everyone said it is, it shouldnt be the 3 most play game on Steam, and there should be 0 ppl working on mod already.

So only the sites that agree with your opinion aren't [censored] eh?

The amount of people buying and playing the game is hardly indicative of it's actual quality. If that were true then would that make Call of the Duty the best game of all time?