I'm all for a dev trying new things but removing things that people really liked is head scratching to say the least, like ammo crafting.

No one said it's garbage. Just not one of bethesda's better games.

Actually like i said the majority of the site, when u go to 20 site and u have 17 site saying is a good game and 3 is a bad game, something is wrong on those 3 sites. (it a example)

CoD is a excellent game when it come down to shooter-multiplayer, that why ppl buy that game to shoot friend over the internet. In that the game success. Bc u can see what CoD is better over other CoD game just for the share amount of ppl playing the game or that buy the game.

Actually when it come down to development the amount of ppl buying the game is actually a indicative of quality.

Actually they remove things that ppl complain about, like ammo crafting. Why i said this bc i u go to NV forums u will have alot more ppl complain about it bc, add something that was irrelevant to the game, bc u can buy every single ammo more easy that crafting it.

They dont remove something bc they want they actually explore the option and look for the feedback. Like right now ppl like more the new leveling system that the old one. Or ppl enjoy more the game w/o the degradation system on weapons and armor.

Reading that made my head hurt

So to be an RPG, a game must allow a character to be a psychopath? Well that just retconned the entire Ultima series from being RPGs. Of course, I remember all the complaining even back then about how Ultima *insert whatever number here* svcked because they couldn't have evil avatars, completely missing the whole point of the character of The Avatar being the representative of the Eight Virtues. But oh no, I can't be an evil avatar! The horror!

Whether it is or not productive, it's the way the thread was going long beofe I came into it. And it seems to be how it's continuing. Those are thoughtful points but they all seem to be lost in this thread and so goes any thread that anyone makes regarding "rpg elements". So, perhaps we could indeed get back to those points or do you think it should be locked for being off topic?

The whole premis is flawed. It's not a bad rpg, and it definitely is one. Yea, it most definitely has less of an rpg feel, and less rpg elements; but that hardly makes it a shooter. It's still more of an rpg than 90% of what's being made. And it's also worth noting, unless I'm mistaken, beth don't marketing it as a full blown rpg, or even as primarily an rpg.

I'm sorry, but this is utterly incorrect. I was going to type up a list of reasons why, and simply lost wind ... there's maybe 10% of truth in your statement.

Actually it is. Because of the reasons mentioned in the article

I was joking before release that their games' quality will improve when they stop pretending that they are RPGs. And it looks like i was right

i agree with u

this, he is one of many calling the game a garbage bc they just dont like it.

Was this guy expecting Dungeon & Dragons with guns? Who cares...the game is incredibly fun. I can build a character the way I want and I can make decisions that have a huge impact on the Commonwealth. Arguing the technicalities of an rpg is kind of silly since they come in all different flavors.

It's even more pathetic how people join forums for the sole purpose of hating on it.

Could be, I haven't looked that deep in to how many quests there are. My post was regarding the actualy story/dialog.

To give you an example, I was sorely disappointed for what I had to go through in the Jamaica Plain quest. Unless I missed a secret room/passage etc. etc., there's really nothing there. That's how a lot of quests have been. It didn't even tell me I completed it and I didn't get any experience points. I had to check my quest list to see what happened and it just disappeared from the list with no notification that I had completed it. I do have to say I had my first crap my pants moment in the game during this quest though. I won't spoil it for anyone, but if you have a weak heart, be prepared.

I've been thinking about this today as I was playing trying to pinpoint what exactly it is about FO4 that makes it so different. I guess for me it boils down to it, not being dumbed down, but vanilla-ized. There's no thought anymore to it and people who enjoy RPG games like to lose themselves in a world where you have many choices and there are consequences to those choices. All that seems to have been stripped away. So yeah, technically it's still an RPG and we can sit here and split hairs about what an rpg truly is, but it is a far cry (ha!) from the story and rpg choices in FO3/NV.

Please, don't get me wrong, I still love the game. I haven't put my controller down except to eat and sleep since I got FO4 a few days after it was released. And since I'm currently out of work, I have put some serious time in to this. Way too much in fact. My head is killing me but I just can't walk away from.

Groaned at the article when I read it earlier. It is not even about FO4 being an RPG or not, but because another person thinks that an RPG is only an RPG if they resemble the Golden Age RPGs (most of which were done by the same people).

This the Article just do some comparisons that really dont make senses. When he describe de game as a series of rooms with enemies to kill, OMG, that is pretty much every game i have play since i star playing game.

i dont know i have see the consequence of my actions on Boston. Not only from the MQ but from some of the side quest.

I guess when i play Far cry i have 0 impact on the overall game, something that is different on Fo4.

I guess this discussion will keep up till the next game come out. Why i said that bc i remember ppl complain about Skyrim till this game. =P

I've done quests that affect my characters stats as well as the whole Commonwealth. I have no idea why people are saying choice and consequence doesn't exist in the game when it clearly does.

You didn't like the Jamaica plain quest for the hidden treasure? It was great.

I'm playing on PC as well. All that mod does is show how shallow the dialogue is before you select anything.

http://imgur.com/g0UtFZg

This speaks for itself, honestly. You might not be able to define an RPG, but this dialogue can at least be established as far worse than any previous Fallout RPG's. Heck, Fallout 3 got panned for it's writing, but it's still superior to this. The point is that dialogue only offers an illusion of choice because you'll be railroaded into the same options as other players 90% of the time. It might technically still be an RPG, but it isn't a good Fallout RPG. I couldn't care less about what JRPGs and Mass Effect do in regards to dialogue. In the old Fallout games you could change the direction of quests by the power of speech, and in this game it's only present in a minimal state. Furthermore, there's only one quest in the entire game that involves skill check (USS Constitution questline). If all of my dialogue options lead to the same result and my character's SPECIAL/skills are never integrated into quests, then I know that I'm playing a poor Fallout RPG.

Feel free to lock if people start again to be agressive with each other. But If the thread continues debating "Its this a RPG", my guess is that will sink fast, so no need to lock.

So far in my play-through, I completely agree. It is a great game but it is not Fallout IMHO. It is Fallout-ish. Maybe it is the narrated character or other elements discussed but it does not feel like this world is mine. I love the game and will put a ton of time into it. But I hope they pay attention to what was liked and disliked and not put some of these elements into other future games.

I actually don't hate the character being voiced. They picked very well. But let me be clear. If they try this with Elder Scrolls I am going to sh** bricks.

its obviously an RPG, problem is that its an poor RPG compared to Fallout 3 or Skyrim.

So far the quests looks very linear compared to FO3, more in the line of Skyrim and Oblivion where most quests don't have branching.

Checks are mostly used to demand more pay, in an few cases to get more information. Dialogue system makes it hard to add more options and the 3 word responses make them unclear.

Using the same horrible quest overview as Skyrim but in FO4 the overview can display all the information given about the quests.

This make you care less about the story,

I really disagree with the first bit, i don't see how FO3 or Skyrim have anything that makes FO4 "poor" by comparison. Sure, somethings are better like stat checks in FO3 and the open ended character in Skyrim, but i think FO4 does some things better aswell. Like say companions and the impact you can have on the world.

That's some surreal level of denial here. When even /r/fallout agrees that F4 is not exactly RP-heavy (to put it mildly) and some people (the list is pretty long though) here still try to claim otherwise, I think we might be dealing with some strange phenomenon that shall remain unnamed.

Whatever Fallout 4 is supposed to be, I still like it. I got used to Nate/Nora being voiced and having a more set background than the Lone Wanderer did. A few minor gripes about the delivery of the lines, but I don't mind. Could it be worse.