The no fast travel rule opens the game wide up, in my opinion. Travelling from A to B now uses resources that previously went unspent - ammo, weapon condition, healing items are all now genuine concerns. I'm also discovering new things that I never found before - the unmarked ghoul settlement near VAPL-58 Power Station, for example. You're also right about planning ahead, I've been caught out of ammo and having a broken gun on a few occasions. I now let Clover deal with anything smaller than a giant radscorpion, on account of saving ammo and precious weapon condition of my fragile combat shotgun.

I now don't really have a home anymore, I just sleep where I can now. In any case, I've got no loot to store - the weapon/armour carry limit means I'm carrying all my possessions at any one time.

The only rule that I have relaxed somewhat is the one regarding healing items. Ideally, I'd try a no stimpack rule, since by using them its far too easy to keep in perfect health, while crippled limbs are practically a non-issue. Therefore only a doctor/sleeping would uncripple you, and in true wasteland style, only food/water sources will heal. However, in my current game I've waived this rule for two reasons - 1) I have Clover with me, so getting out of a fight that I can't finish is much more difficult (as well as avoiding some battles altogether) and 2) the constant no fast travel often leaves me with no recent autosave, so I allow to heal with stimpacks in and out of battle in order to not lose the last 10-15 minutes of travel time every time we get jumped by an Enclave patrol.

Great thread, indeed. Im playing with these rules:


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Mods:
* FWE, vanilla configuration, no sprint mod and no V.A.T.S. but bullet time instead. Respawn time = 365 days. Ammunition with weight.
* MMM, with low spawn options.
* RH_IronSights.

Rules:
* No fast travel.
* Carry capacity limitation: No more than 1 two-handed weapon and no more than 3 weapons in total. No more than 1 armor / outfit.
* Die once, start again.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


One of the most important features for me is the respawn time. The game makes sense if it is a long respawn time. The only thing I dont like of Oblivion and Fallout universes is the fact that I can go every 3 days to the same place to kill the same enemies that I know exactly who, how and were are they displayed. If I avoid them, I know they are there and I know that every corner in the world is allways full. This breaks inmmersion for me. It would be perfect if there was a random spawn of enemies in random locations. Not having this, I prefer just a long respawn time that ensures they will not be the same group of men or creatures in the same place every week. That way, leveling and looting became difficult and is necessary a good strategy. This feature makes FWE a must for me.

No fast travel: I agree with winawer. Is just stupid. Even the motorbike feature that cames with FWE. Your character just teleport form one point to the other (bike or not). There was nobody in the way?

Die once, start again: This is a mad rule. I have played some games and allways died but, for some reason, I cant stop to play that way. Mines and sniper rifles seem to be the key. Im at level 7 in my new game.

The only thing about die once is:

Ever stepped off a bridge or a cliff?
Ever take cover near vehicles?
Ever get trapped by a burning vehicle?
Ever get stuck in the environment to be killed because you can't move?

Done it all. The last one svcks. Maybe give yourself a break and judge each situation.

- I go carefully in bridges and cliffs. If there are enemies, I search for a good position and I check for the best way to escape before shooting. I never fight directly over bridges or cliffs.

- Vehicles... dangerous indeed. I take cover near them just if necessary and just for a few seconds. I avoid them when I expect somebody shoot me.

- Ever get stuck in the environment to be killed because you can't move? If I cant move, thats a bug. If there is a bug I can load my last game, of course. Thats the way I played Oblivion, but it hasnt happened until now in Fallout.

I took a long break from FO3.... Just outside Roosevelt Academy, and heading back to Megaton with Charon. Heading east, and who should I stumble across, but the Wanderer and his pack of dogs...... and three Deathclaws (my character is level 24.) Got my special leather armor off of him.... now I'm happy. I've been intentionally not adding points to small guns, instead allowing for special armor to boost my skills. My highest skill is Big Guns at 95. Except I wasn't carrying a big gun.... Heart beating loudly, no stims, a broken Ol' Painless and the only weapon I have left is Blackhawk..... which is at less than 1/4 health. I knelt down to a puddle to drink, interrupted by two Mirelurk Kings.... Charon, though great as a pack mule, is definitely not helping out by being very slow to engage the enemy. Heartbeat heard loud and clear this time, I sneak to Arefu and thankfully find Doc Hoff, who trades me three stims for a couple of beat up assault rifles.

It's funny how I'm dying to find a hunting rifle to repair Ol' Painless with, but cannot..... at least at this point in time. Stumbled across the B&B down the road, and just now took shelter in Vault 106... there has to be some kind of first aid box in there.....

Now we're talking hardcoe Fallout
I will try this and the OPs options and this should and will get messy

Okay, I'll share with you how I am making FO3 more interesting:


In addition to the above:

Str - 1
Per - 9
End - 1
Cha - 1
Int - 9
Agi - 10
Lck - 9

• I am not using armour of any type. Currently I wear the RobCo jumpsuit.
  
• I am not using Stim packs. Ever. I use them only as trade items and heal via water/food/Doc.
  
• I carry 3 weapons. Tried only 2 but it was just impossible due to scarcity of ammo. 3 feels more comfortable. I carry no more than 3 nades and, since I specialise in explosives 5 X mines of either type. Can be mixed (say, 2 regular/3 bottle cap) but never more than 5.
  
• No bobble heads or books to boost stats.
  
• Carry no more than 2 armor suits at a time for trade.

I'm living in Jury St sewer relay station and will use the others to store items and rest as I find them. Had one spawn of Raiders down there so far and keep a couple of mines on the floor just in case.

Not brave enough to turn of HUD and crosshair completely but have the opacity pretty low which is, maybe, something of a compromise as you have to keep an eye on it for red markers and they're not always easy to spot.

Fallout 3 has no ironsights. I disagree with turning off crosshairs in a wrongheaded attempt to simulate reality. I understand If you are intentionally removing an indicator to hamper your own skill and experience. But I wouldn't count it as hardcoe in my game to press the aim button yet have no indicator of where my shot will hit. It's as if I'm telling my character to aim and they disobey, miss, and die as a result of their intentional inability to hit their mark. I think a hardcoe solution would be to increase spread across the board but also increase the bonus one gets from aiming.


I wouldn't call this hardcoe either. It serves only to transform your enemies into lead eaters, mine stompers, grenade chompers, and laser absorbers. Moreover, some enemies lack balance ( Broken Steel: Ghoul Reavers, Albino Scorpions, MMM: Abominations ) and shoving that difficulty slider to the far right will make the imbalance more obvious. Why should an abomination take 20 shots to the face from a laser rifle? The same laser rifle that can vaporize on a rare critical. Is their face magic?


Again, only if you want to deliberately make things unfair for yourself to tempt your doom. The interface is there to simulate your senses. Pain would let you know you are crippled and the indicator is there to acknowledge your awareness of it. Same for action points. You know when you are tired. Ammo indicator is arguable. For the compass, it would be better if a mod made it vanish when the sun is completely down, but add a Star Watcher perk to enable it again.

My understanding of hardcoe is probably different. To intentionally violate fairness would be a handicap, not hardcoe. hardcoe would be increasing the levels of realism in the game, where all guns damage at max damage, aiming is simulated by less spread, the player has basic needs, and overall has the same limitations they would have in real life.

After reading this thread through , I got too excited to wait till my next char creation. So the heck with the mele based run through and on to realism. Even though I have the PC version and can run mods , not gona bother with that right now (Do that later to spark continued interest) And just follow some set of self imposed rules.

The question of realism with regaurds to difficulty setting and how targets just soak up bullets , has made me wonder if the key might be in an easier setting and keeping a low endurance? Plus possibly some sort of death penalty .... hmmm Ill have to play with that one.

Im gona try S-4 P-5 E-3 C-5 I-4 A-6 L-9 ... The high luck will be simulating a more realistic killing potential of a bullet/knife , Plus im never going to use vats. So im guessing having to much ammo might not become a problem. atleast for awhile .... but I was thinking in later times , when im stocking up for a mission and packing an excessive amount of ammo. I could carry some weight ballasts like fission batteries and the like to simulate the extra weight or carrying capacity. Ill figure out what ammo equals how much later instead of bore you with details right now.

I dont see a problem with being able to carry as much weapons and armour as my weight limit will allow , because possibly your just pulling the useful parts off of them , plus they could be broken down for easier packing anyhow.
But im still only going to use weapons through hot keys with no pipboy opening while in danger.(does console version have this function?) Im going to treat it like this , I get 5 hot keys and depending on the size of the weapon , 1-3 keys get used. Big guns are 3 , rifles are 2 , all else is 1 button.(maybe 2 for the shishkabob) And of course I can remap the keys while safe.

As far as healing , Im not gona use stimpaks in the regular sense , but instead of sleeping ever , im going to use the wait function coupled with 1 stimpak per 4 hrs , and just say I can sleep anywhere ... hehe. As far as food and water I was thinking of limiting how many a day I could use (includeing water sources for healing) not sure the right # there?

As far as chems , Im undecided as to whether Ill just ignore them or not ... I sorta do allready with normal play anyways ... except for radaway and ant nector during that quest.

This is the stuff I was thinking of doing different than what ya'll have stated , Im gona follow the repair rule , no fast travel , barter rule ... ??? seems like im missing one ... hey did someone mention a no useing local map rule?

And the death penalty I was going to imply , will be loseing all my stuff ... I figure Ill just sell it all to a vendor for what ever meager caps they have. Senario goes ... I die , respawn at what ever auto save i had , fast travel to best vendor I can think of , and dump everything for what ever caps they have. The story being , that I got looted while laying there next to death and then some nice soul takes me to a settlement and gives me that amount of caps to restart on.

Well here goes , sounds good in theory , but im sure Ill find some stuff needs tweakin.

I'd be cautious of the Luck at 9, Mktavish. Luck increases your chance to get a critical hit, meaning you will start owning. And yeah, no local map. You can lay out your world map on a table when you are inside and safe, but you can only look at your local map when out and about. You're going to have to use landmarks and memory. As long as you are having fun though, that's what counts. I'm currently playing DiD, so the above rules feel right to me. I'd be cautious of the fast travel though. In my current play, I'm limiting the level of my repair and sneak, as these seem to be game-breakers as well. Sneak is capped at 70, and repair is currently at 75. I will reload an earlier save if repair being higher is messing up my game.

@ Big Daddy What does "DID" mean? ..... On the fast travel I meant only after death to get to nearest settlement vendor , and dump all my stuff. As if I was looted and transported to a town by some nice person. IDK , I havent worked out the details of death penalty yet , And it occurred to me I could set up some stashes to take the sting out of loseing all my stuff.

Anyways , Ive died twice so far .... once at the superduper mart (second bunch of raiders) And the second time at the raider overpass base on the way to Arefu. Egads!!! I didnt expect that flamer But those deaths I could just chalk it up to getting used to using hot keys only ... Im gona allow myself bloodpaks in hotkeys though,since their a nice medium between food/drink & stimpaks, plus possibly a stealth boy in those dire situations (Do those work in the middle of combat?)

Ya maybe Ill do a restart with luck at 8 , on easy it could be to over powerd ... It just seems without the aid of vats Im gona need that luck to kill stuff and survive. The power of vats was demonstrated to me last night when I got a little frustrated with my second death , and loaded up my other char lvl 12 defiler. Went to point lookout ... while inside the mansion and I couldnt hardly kill any of the tribals without vats close range shotgun headshots. Was poppin lots of psyco and jet too. I think that place was a little over my lvl

DiD means Dead is Dead. I make a hard save at the beginning of a play session, I turn off all auto saves, I do my thang. If I die, that's it, new character. If I die because of crazy glitch, then I get to reload. The other day in Oblivion, my mage got stuck on a treasure chest. A friggin chest. Reload. On topic, my current character is level 27. The best so far.

The stashes thing is working really successfully for me, in lieu of fast travel. I try to keep them stocked with items to repair, some food, water, maybe a teddy bear depending on the character. These stashes are becoming really convenient. If you ever played FarCry 2, there was a feature in the game where you could stash one weapon at a weapons box up the road, for the future. That's how these stashes are working out for me.

I deal with that little scene at the Mansion with about 15 well-placed bottlecap mines. Done. No dogs killed either.

Damn, I wish I could try this hardcoe variation play through in Fallout 3 but Bethesda doesn't want to patch anything for Windows 7 support.

*cough* my thread http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1327969-fallout-3-freezes-and-crashes-within-5-10-minutes-of-gaming/ *cough*

I really admire the spirit of this thread and those that inhabit its pages. Very stellar of you'll to be so 'hardcoe'!

I have to say though, it's a sign that the developers of a game haven't done their job right if, the gamers are having to employ 'make believe' facets, tactic and solutions. Please don't get me wrong, I am all for diligent morals and ethics. It is very admirable that you guys take it upon yourselves to implement aspects that increase immersion and create a more 'hardcoe' experience.
The way we would like the game to be crafted is not catered to, we are forced to use our own regulations, which again, is a good attribute in a person, but I feel it should be enforced and fostered by the developers. Ala, FO:NV -- A 'hardcoe' mode was added. Bravo! Bravo!...(encore)

Using ones imagination SHOULD NOT be part of true role-play gaming experiences. The game should support such ideas, that's kinda the point...
We imagine that The World, has become a Nuclear Wasteland, all the trappings and situations that are encompassed therein, a role-playing game is forged from the mind and manifest into, This Physical Plane. Now, is it neglect or absence mindedness that leaves us wanting..?
That has us creating our own rules ?
Which we feel are necessary...

Many aspects to increase immersion have been discussed here, also just as important, are aspects that break immersion.
A biggy for me is, that a 'PC' can somehow stow away a mini-gun.... or even rifle for that matter. And how does one carry so much 'junk' without a 'pack-pack'..????
It's ludicrous and takes the same level of suspended disbelieve as does it require to impose, suspended belief in the restriction on other aspects, eg. 3 weapon rule.

Here is the crux of my point. Having to use our own imagination through suspension of reality, to me, it just doesn't seem right when gaming. I do not feel it is our duty as consumers to have to imagine or pretend....
Clearly, 'something' is lacking. 'hardcoe' mode!
My experience with Skyrim, was devastated by the lack of 'hardcoe'. FO:NV had 'HCM', Skyrim felt like a giant leap backwards. It really would not surprise me if, Bethesda, added 'hardcoe' as DLC to Skyrim. It is necessary and they, know it (or should). Very simple to implement (please B?).
Anyway, I'm ranting...


Here is a few important rules that I impose upon 'PC's' in FO3:

- 'PC' must wear/equip the heaviest of their apparel and weaponry (if having had looted, eg. Metal Armour, to sell, it must be adorned. If carrying a mini-gun, it must be equipped and dropped if I switch weapon. Same applies for rifles, etc... This is because if I have a two handed weapon slung on my back, Where TF is it (?) when I switch to my side arm.... (I am to 'pretend' it's there...)

- Wearing appropriate attire for the environment (eg. if it is a bright sun kissed day, I wear shades/hat. If by chance I go for a swim, I remove my clothing, otherwise one would become instantly over encumbered for sometime), ect...

- I rarely and sparingly use the 'wait' function (it's just how the cookie crumbles).

- If shot/injured, I cause the 'PC' to recoil.

- Once my heart begins pounding, I assume adrenaline is pumping and neglect the above point and increase ferocity (ala 'Nerd Rage' -- I 'll give B, this one. Thumbs up!)

- I do not take advantage of 'Radaway' and I endevour to expose my 'PC' to as little radiation as possible. (stats are kept of 'Radaway' and 'Stimpaks' which is a step in the right direction). I feel, 'Stimpaks', 'Rad X' and 'Radaway' should have side-effects, in 'HC' at least.

- Occasionally, I talk to 'NPCs' when in role-playing terms I 'imagine' they confronted me.

(scrapping the bottom of the barrel now.. Hahaha)

- I play fair, giving the Ai more intelligence than it necessarily has and I try not to exploit stupidity.


I agree with all suggestion made by others in this thread, accept -- "You can't pick up ammo for a weapon you arnt carrying"...
That is, Insane!


Great Thread.

Arrrrggg Death #3 .... just before inside the door at Merrieste train station ... a freakin giant rad scorpion.

But what im trying to figure out , is how the heck I ended up with 1250 bottle caps , lvl 3 and the only quest ive done is killing Silver for Moriarty. Ofcourse I hadnt paid him anything yet. Ya I havent been following the equal caps barter rule. I had been selling alot of chems,drinks,food even some stims. Its just funny that on my regular plays , I was alot more broke.

Anyways , from my spawn point at megaton , I just dumped all my loot to the Brasslanter vendor , of wich gobbled everything that wasnt in the aid catagorey. Moria was closed so I ended up running to the super duper in my skivies ,where I knew some dead raiders lay. And luckily I had stashed an assualt rifle/pistol/amo/nades. But the long trek back to Arefu will have to wait for tommorro. Im gona start saveing when I hit done points like that in quests , so I wont have to run all that dialog again. Then from that save point , Ill just fast travel to Megaton and strip my char. For the problem of all the caps , I thought of donateing to the church of Atom , but I dont want all that karma change. So I opted to stash em in a box inside Moriartys. If they'er gona stay , Ill just role play Jerico decided to help me out.

I really admire the spirit of this thread and those that inhabit its pages. Very stellar of you'll to be so 'hardcoe'!

I have to say though, it's a sign that the developers of a game haven't done their job right if, the gamers are having to employ 'make believe' facets, tactic and solutions. Please don't get me wrong, I am all for diligent morals and ethics. It is very admirable that you guys take it upon yourselves to implement aspects that increase immersion and create a more 'hardcoe' experience.

Mktavish, "I dont know if Id call it not doing their job right , just decided the product was done enough to release."

Then don't post. Way to start... Troll.


Mktavish, "Also playing hardmode is sort of a roleplay experience IMO ... wich is always about working with what ya got to imagine your alter reality."

Wrong. It is about PLAYING that 'reality' (realism)... Don't even bother turning your computer on then if that's how you feel -- Close your eyes and open your mind... that's imagination for you!

You just posted how you ran around without clothes on, how am I supposed to take you seriously, besides your Trolling.......


Using ones imagination SHOULD NOT be part of true role-play gaming experiences.

Mktavish, "Did you really just say that?"

Yes. Are you as blind as Eli ?

Consider. There maybe a reason I said that, that you are missing........ I am not necessarily talking to you by posting what I did.


Here is the crux of my point. Having to use our own imagination through suspension of reality, to me, it just doesn't seem right when gaming. I do not feel it is our duty as consumers to have to imagine or pretend....

Mktavish, "Yes there are facets that break the emersion , like fast travel,vats,pip boy pause in battle .... But you can ignore those easily. Unless your on console , Im guessing pip boy pauseing is still needed due to no hotkeys."

So you can PAUSE....... HahahahaHahahahaHahahaha.......

There is 8 Hotkeys, on Console. The Drectional Pad.


.

I too, am interested in your point, Joy Rye Dar, about the armor.
This is a Bethesda game. As in Oblivion, they are appealing to the masses. I'm okay with that, as long as I can find my personal niche in there somewhere. And I have, here in FO3 and in Oblivion, and hopefully in Skyrim when all the bugs are worked on.
Using one's imagination is essential to a rpg, imo. There is no way I could sink 1000s of hours into Oblivion (since just a little before release) and this game (a little less) without imagination. What's my backstory? What are my limitations? How do I imagine my character living and interacting in this world? Imagination required for this.
There will never be a game that does all these things for us. We are but a minute group of people in relation to the masses that bought this game to blow stuff up, cut people's heads off, etc.
I'd love to have DLC that introduced all this, but I feel that it would turn off the "masses." And that's not a good business model. On a weird tangent, I don't like games holding my hand. This is a game hands-off approach. On a side note, a forum member here, winawer, said that our hardcoe rules were even more so than FONV's hardcoe. (Trust me, I desperately tried to play that game, my 360 would allow me only ten minutes of game time.)
Sorry, rambling, not enough coffee yet.

hardcoe Role-Playing = Realism


Am I wrong ?..

Yes and no.
No, we are in a video game. There are certain things we can do to make sure we don't die. Buffout anyone? Med X? Jet? Stealth Boy? Fast-travel?
Yes, that is, as close to realism in a video game. But not real, as, we can reload.

FO:NV is The Daddy.

P.S. I apologise for posting over you, had that momentum....

I heard that there was economic manipulation in Skyrim. Is that true? And please for the love of the Nines, no spoilers, I patiently await the GOTY. I have to go to work, and can view your response, but will not be able to continue the conversation until laterish.

Dead is Dead ?

If you haven't truly placed, FO:NV, and you are talking the way you do about RPGs, you really need to experience the privaledge.

I played for 70 hours, then embarked upon the voyage, back to Cyrodiil.
The economy in Skyrim, is a subject I for one cannot justifiably answer.

Have a nize day.

@ Joy Rye Dar ... Look im sorry if I came across as antagonistic , wasnt my intent ( I see you dont like the idea of post over? explains apology to Big Daddy?)

Thanx for the explanation on the hotkeys concerning console ... In my current list of realism rules (wich im still working on) pauseing the game with the pip boy to switch weapons/meds is out ... and was leaving me wondering with regaurd to console play. Not that it really matters other than I seem to be getting most of my info/feedback regaurding the game ingeneral from BigDaddy.

This is my first title from Bethesda (only had it a couple months) so I guess excuse my ignorance regaurding them.
Most of my experience with Computer RPG's comes from BaldursGate/Dungeon Seige/ And latest Everquest 2 wich I thought became willy nilly from Sony bending to the wants of the masses severely dumbing down the game. Ah well though , thats just business.
Along time ago I started playin D&D then they came out with a title called Gama world and luved that game. When I ran across this one. I thought it was pretty awesome and nostalgic for me.

I still say imagination is always gona be key in RPG's , plus there's no one Idea thats gona fit everybody's emersion needs/wants.