I'd be up for an attempt at a crowd-funded "rehash" of GURPS-esque post-apocalyptic world using an engine like that used in Jagged Alliance Back in Action. PM me if you are really that morose. I doubt it would make enough money that it will be considered a success, and it might even tar or stigmatize the makers in some unintended fashion that plagues them for the rest of their career in the industry. But I'd go for it anyway.

Me personally, I try to cherish every game, and resort to expressing disappointment at them as "failures" only in the most extreme of circumstances. I understand that these are works of art, made by other people, and not automatic objects for my scorn, ridicule and unjustified scrutiny.

The first time i heard the term being used was in WoW. But as an actual thing to do, I know me and many others were doing it in Diablo 2. Though I'm sure people were doing it before then too.

Theorycrafting can be as simple as deciding that you want to play a character that uses Laser weapons and Power Armor exclusively, then looking to see what perks support that. It can also be as complicated as full-on min/maxing. The exact amount will vary from person to person, but if you give your build any forethought at all, you're theorycrafting to some extent. Personally, I enjoy theorycrafting; I'm a technical person, so while I'm not particularly good at role-playing, I do enjoy coming up with a good build. However, I don't enjoy min/maxing; I never felt like I had to use the Enchanting/Smithing loop or the Fortify Restoration glitch, and I didn't use the 100% Spell Cost Reduction exploit (though my Destruction mage probably should have used 70-80% of that).

The game I'd associate with Min/Maxing most from my personal experience was Borderlands 2. I remember the "Bee Shield" combo and other glitches/synergies people would come up with to farm some of ridiculously tough bosses in that game (I particularly enjoyed being downed by random fields of point-and-click energy...). Theorycrafting wasn't always about the most effective build possible as Min/Maxing is, it was about things like "here's a fun idea, lets do Skyrim unarmed only", or "lets make a Pryomancer class in ESO by using the Dragon Knight in a mage-style".

Think min maxing is more classical RPG paper or group based computer rpg where you focused only on primarly abilities ignoring anything else.

Theorycrafting is an newer term and used a lot with MMO as the system is more complex and often very gear dependent.

Min maxing in FO4 is to have 1 in any special who don't help your fighting style, melee with 10 in strength and endurance and the rest is dump.

Theorycrafting is finding the best gear and the best build for your playstyle.

Now the classical theorycrafting error is looking at stats only and assuming everything works out perfectly. Excample thinking that an two shot full auto plasma rifle with an beam splitter is an perfect high dps weapon, you only look at stats ignoring that the climb makes it impossible to hold the gun on target.

I thought an bleeding full auto weapon is perfect, its not, yes bleed stack and do 25 damage however its damage over time so it will not kill enemy at once and you tend to shoot to enemy dies anyway. Nice as an follower weapon.

Theory crafting, to me, seams to be a result of unintuitive and secret mechanics.

Why do you theory craft, when the game inadequately explains how different elements interact with each other find that the reasoning fallout does not have much theory crafting is because the mechanics are simple, intuitive, and explained.

Why do you want to have too get out a gigantic formula to figure out how much damage your attack will do with X and X bonus against Y enemy, that should be explained by the game.

Uh oh...MMO brain aneurysm incoming.

No gigantic formula needed. Here I'll show you:

"I like Skyrim. I like hitting things in Skyrim with my fists. What boosts my fist-to-face damage ratio? The Pugilist Gloves will be great once I disenchant them for my heavy armor which boosts unarmed attacks!"

Also, I resent any game that feels the need to explain EVERYTHING to me in terms of mechanics. No skill or fun in that. It's a result of a designer spilling open a toy box and telling the player "here, go nuts!" Funny how you would call that unintuitive when that's basically every Bethesda game with mod support.

Fallout 3 hardly had any theorycrafting, except for the perk pick list and the skills needed to get the perks.

Skyrim neither, except calculations on how magic was nerfed to oblivion. Yes you had the bonus armor and synergi between enchanted items, potions and smiting.

Oblivion and Morrowind had it with the complex magic and enchanting system, weakness to magic could be used to boost enchants and spell damage a lot and stacked, it could also be combined an mixed for nice effects.

fire damage+ turn undead was fun, cast on undead and it burns and run away from you.

Morrowind was more insane, levitate in max radius, magnitude 1 and 60 seconds duration was an non hostile and cheap area effect slow spell. Developed then I tried to see if npc would take the shortcut over the river and fall down.

Did not work but the effect was useful.

Skyrim had plenty, particularly if you used the much maligned Alchemy tree. Oblivion was far deeper like you say due to spell crafting, and I didn't play Morrowind until after the newer games so I can't really comment (couldn't get into it TBH). FO3 had less than New Vegas, but FO4 has much less so. The more you streamline, the less factors you gives those players to work with.

That is really lame theory crafting right there and you should know it, knowing what items to get is just as prevalent in Fallout 4 as Skyrim.

If you want it to be theory crafting you would be trying to calculate the damage dealt with your fists, which in your example would be base + Armor + enchantment.

then trying to calculate max damage would involve knowing the limit to patience as alchemy allows enchanting to scale endlessly.

I think the OP is really overcomplicating something that was never meant to be, theory crafting and min/max only work well in a MMO situation where you are pretty much build/gear dependent where everyone knows and is striving for the next best tier of gear. I used to Wow and raid and I was never that nerd enough to spreadsheet out stuff. You already know what gear you need to progress.

Which pretty much is out the window with regards to anything in the FO series or most RPG's. There is no sort of progression in this type of game per'se. As compared to an MMO, you can pretty much use any item at any time and still play the game. We're not gear dependent. My 1st play through I never used any armor upgrades, legendary items. Just upgraded what I found weapon wise. Was really no difference, things were either easier or harder to kill.

So meh I guess lol....

Myself understand the thing with theorycrafting and why players want to have such roleplaying. TES had a little of it, but as in FPS games and FO 4, you just pick the weapon that gives most damage and your problem solved. I have a shotgun with bonus, rifle with bonus, laser- and gauss rifle with bonus and missile launcher with bonus. These weapons I had past 60 levels. I don't need any different weapons and I don't need to pick a perk/skill either (but I did...), because even on "hard" level, I master all kinds of hostiles. It doesn't matter what clothing or armor I use, 2x missiles on any enemy unless legendary; 3x missiles. Perks/skills may increase damage yes, but I did not need to do the math self.

When I play TES games, I need to think twice and do some math when I create and use weapons and magic. I also need to think what kind of resist each enemy had, because some of the hostiles had very high resist due to some of the dmg and I had to switch weapons/magic often. In FO 4 I only need a shotgun and missile launcher in fact, but as for role playing I have several weapons like a sniper (just the same kind of rifle, but with a scope). Mini nukes I hardly use, total overkill and no fun unless a stuck enemy I cannot find.

Cheers,

-Klevs

Min/maxing has been around since the first nerd read the D&D rules and decided he could make a lvl 1 character that could destroy the world, with the right combinations in place. It's simply finding every loophole in the rules to get the most out of your character and it goes against every intent of the game. From my experience as a DM, I truly hate min/maxers. I will say, however, that it's a good way of finding holes in any system.

That's where "useless" things like Charisma, Intelligence etc come into it. Going 10 in STR, END, AGI or whatever will only get you so far until your first trap...

fo4 does have theroycraft... If you do not plan out your build... You will be in for pain at level 50+ on hard or greater difficulties. It is not the best theroycrafting but it is there..

Also, I love how someone said fallout fans ( On a fallout forum mind you ) don't do theroycrafting. When in reality a good chunk of us where the nerds that sat down and wrote out characters on pen and paper for dungeons and dragons. That killed me with laughter lol.

Exactly. First thing I did: "I want to be melee only, in power armor, and Paladin the hell out of this Commonwealth! How do I achieve this?"

As soon as the perk list was leaked my mates all gathered around seeing what we could come up with, I expect most people who saw the list planned out their build.

Not really, there isn't that much to theory craft unlike a hardcoe MMO. if any it's a bare minimum, you pick a few skills weapon/damage based and that's it lol. My next play through will be a no weapon perk build just to see I'm right I bet just having base weapon damage I can survive, and none of the hokey legendary items!!! I might have to use the environment more and do a lot more sneaking but I bet it's possible. Doesn't take a genius to play these games lol. In an MMO there's a wrong way to play, in a SP/RPG not really.

No way in hell could you do that in an MMO

oh come on, I played D&D for years as a young pre-man nerd. Never had to sit there with a spreadsheet to see what was what. *roll D20, roll damage + any modifiers* *roll D20 ooh..critical hit, roll D100* Wasn't that hard that you had to do that type of thing. It was all on your character sheet.

This is not a MMO. I would not even touch it if it where. But last I checked MMO's became fairly neutered in terms of theroycrafting. It is more on, BIS system. Which people have an illusion that is theroycrafting there character. Actually I dont want to go there. But yes. This is not a MMORPG. or any other MMO variation. And thank god its not.

If this is theorycrafting why does the OP say it doesn't exist in Fallout 4? My second character is a stealthy assassin who only uses pistols and short blades, and I've planned skills to augment that.

Absolutely. Min-Max and Monty Haul were common in the tabletop days.

Sounds like what you're calling theorycrafting is reliant upon metagaming, no?

The general direction of this thread strikes me as odd. Are people complaining because many different playstyles can be successful and there is not just one best method? Seriously?

And those who say there aren't multiple ways to play are just showing that they haven't tried. My first character was a stealthy assasin builder scientist. My current character is into explosives, automatic weapons and power armor and doesn't have any building perks at all. They are VASTLY different styles of play Like, did you know you don't have to constantly pick up junk if you don't build stuff? Hard habit to break, I must say.

I still dont get it (and no I am not being clever),

Why would you care about it in a single player game with unlimited levels... (Speed in which you become killing machine ??, But who you going to brag too)

Like Anthropod I never heard of this ether, maybe its regional and I was dice rolling about the same time as him, And Brewer George I have heard of this so called Monty hall Dm......Unfortunately never had one ours was very tight fisted, no really tight fisted, gawds we were stripping bodies of there clothes for the few coppers we would get by selling them CHEAP. hehehe

1. Neverwinter Nights games were based on D&D rules. So, lots of background dice rolls, lots of chance. You could increase your chances to pass a stat check, with your skills and equipment. (I LOVED all the NWN games btw. )

2. Theorycrafting started with Starcraft, where players would argue which strategy would work better "in theory", but they never acted upon.

3. It later evolved with WoW, when players tried to get a "behind the scenes" look, to see how the devs determined the various damage outputs etc.

4. Theorycrafting has really no place in a single player game and I have NEVER even heard of anyone using that term for one either. It's really a silly term, if you think about it, because originally, the term actually meant what it stood for. It was all about theory and speculations.

5. When I play MMOs, all I worry about is that the mobs die, how I got there, who cares! And yes, I don't raid much, that's more like work and no fun! LOL (yes, yes, I do look at DPS, since I usually play a ranger)

That seems like a very good summary, and with that in mind, I still maintain that: FO4 has plenty of potential for it.

Reminds me of the insanely ingenious stuff people have come up with in Minecraft, XP farms and that sort of thing. Can be a lot of fun for a while.

You can theorycraft almost everything. Just because the game lets you have as many levels as you can get really doesn't matter at all since perks can be ignored. I can still build a energy weapons character, I can build a melee, I can build someone who focuses more on charisma, settlement building or someone make chems or weapon mods.

In fact I'd argue the game has MORE theorycrafting in it then most because of it's absence of a level cap.

I see no reason to theorycraft in FO4, altho it will probably come later from people, who wants to do certain things within a timelimit. FO4's "skills" are level gated, and they are few, depending on what weapon-style you choose to go with. SPECIAL's are mostly unimportant, and only really important regarding access to "skills" It all makes, for a progress within a barebone system, where you are hard pressed to go wrong, unless you neglect weapon "skills" entirely or purposely go out of your way to pick "skills" that doesn't synergies well (e.g spreading thin overall)

I think the most theorycrafting we will see in FO4, will be in regard to various builds, and planned stages to go get this or that Bobblehead etc. Damage wise, not so much, since it is so straight forward, and only time is a limit, whereas the other titles had level cap to have in mind, so your choices had to count.