» Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:26 pm Here are the last 10 posts from the previous discussion:
Well said
I believe you understand that you exaggerate greatly in your first paragraph about immunity no vaults etc etc.
Except if you consider buildings such as http://static.gamesradar.com/images/mb/GamesRadar/us/Games/F/Fallout%203/Everything%20Else/Real%20World%20Comparison/monument_NCinDC--article_image.jpg, http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs43/f/2009/130/5/3/Fallout_3___Washington_DC_by_Half_dude.jpg, http://images.walkingsaint.com/images/Fallout3-Scenery.jpg, http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/dc8.jpg or http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2565/3898710998_8b5d9ea86c.jpg habitable and intact. I wouldn't.
Besides most of the surrounding areas are completely leveled already - DC was a huge city and you can't explain - if you checked the thing i told you to check - that some of them are still standing? It's not like nuclear shockwaves level everything without any resistance. Also you don't even know where the bombs exactly fell. Most of the map is already leveled and the outskirts of DC are already in total ruins so i'd guess that while the area was nuked heavily the nukes didn't fall right on the white house or the obelisk.
As for the agriculture thing - what about my second point?
Do you expect the starving beggars to organize themselves and find enough water, claim a piece of land and farm like nothing is wrong?
As for what dr Li said, tbh i don't remember her saying that it is impossible to grow anything without pure water. Even if she did say that a line of an even essential npc should be far from enough for you to call the game's world inconsistent.
Anyway what i personally believe is that what you guys truly want and would enjoy is a green area to play in, but you don't have to say that FO3's environment is inconsistent because of that
PS: I am strictly talking about the game world and environment
Except if you consider buildings such as http://static.gamesradar.com/images/mb/GamesRadar/us/Games/F/Fallout%203/Everything%20Else/Real%20World%20Comparison/monument_NCinDC--article_image.jpg, http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs43/f/2009/130/5/3/Fallout_3___Washington_DC_by_Half_dude.jpg, http://images.walkingsaint.com/images/Fallout3-Scenery.jpg, http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/dc8.jpg or http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2565/3898710998_8b5d9ea86c.jpg habitable and intact. I wouldn't.
Besides most of the surrounding areas are completely leveled already - DC was a huge city and you can't explain - if you checked the thing i told you to check - that some of them are still standing? It's not like nuclear shockwaves level everything without any resistance. Also you don't even know where the bombs exactly fell. Most of the map is already leveled and the outskirts of DC are already in total ruins so i'd guess that while the area was nuked heavily the nukes didn't fall right on the white house or the obelisk.
As for the agriculture thing - what about my second point?
Do you expect the starving beggars to organize themselves and find enough water, claim a piece of land and farm like nothing is wrong?
As for what dr Li said, tbh i don't remember her saying that it is impossible to grow anything without pure water. Even if she did say that a line of an even essential npc should be far from enough for you to call the game's world inconsistent.
Anyway what i personally believe is that what you guys truly want and would enjoy is a green area to play in, but you don't have to say that FO3's environment is inconsistent because of that
PS: I am strictly talking about the game world and environment
Have you played the Originals? Cities such as LA are completely levelled. Yes there is damage in DC but not enough when you know it is the capital of the United States. Not enough damage to justify it still being radioactive after 200 years.
Magaton has water, so why no agriculture or living trees and healthy green plants there? Rivet City has water, so why no agriculture or living trees and healthy green plants there? Republic of Dev and Arefu has water so why no agriculture or living trees and healthy green plants there? Canterbury Commons and Tenpenny Tower has water so why no agriculture or living trees and healthy green plants there? There are rivers in the DC wasteland, so why are there no living trees and healthy green plants growing along their banks?
seriously and I mean no offence but it seems like logic and basic knowledge of science is a rare thing these days :sadvaultboy:
Magaton has water, so why no agriculture or living trees and healthy green plants there? Rivet City has water, so why no agriculture or living trees and healthy green plants there? Republic of Dev and Arefu has water so why no agriculture or living trees and healthy green plants there? Canterbury Commons and Tenpenny Tower has water so why no agriculture or living trees and healthy green plants there? There are rivers in the DC wasteland, so why are there no living trees and healthy green plants growing along their banks?
seriously and I mean no offence but it seems like logic and basic knowledge of science is a rare thing these days :sadvaultboy:
Heh it seems like a common practice to ask "have you played the originals" when someone argues with you even if there are no signs of the opposite. Why? To convince us you are a dinosaur? Not to mention it's the 3rd time you ask. Yes i have...
And no, not minding that plants are not growing at the banks of the rivers does not imply the opposite. Neither does what i have said about DC. There can be reasons why it is not completely leveled and after some research i found them completely rational.
You still fail to answer to this:
Megaton is surrounded by walls for a reason and i guess it would be kind of a problem for them to start farming the surrounding lands even if they have plenty of water.
Rivet is barricaded on a ship for a reason as well. Arefu is built at the end of a hanging highway with landmines to protect it. Tenpenny - same thing - but there they don't even need it. These towns are also visited by caravans.
So i guess it's me (who doesn't mind the absence of vegetation on the banks of the rivers) who lacks common sense and "basic scientific knowledge" - as you call it - while you are completely rational about farmers being in the wild with the company of mutants, raiders, mercs and wildlife with no NCR to protect them and farming their crops without fear.
And no, not minding that plants are not growing at the banks of the rivers does not imply the opposite. Neither does what i have said about DC. There can be reasons why it is not completely leveled and after some research i found them completely rational.
You still fail to answer to this:
Megaton is surrounded by walls for a reason and i guess it would be kind of a problem for them to start farming the surrounding lands even if they have plenty of water.
Rivet is barricaded on a ship for a reason as well. Arefu is built at the end of a hanging highway with landmines to protect it. Tenpenny - same thing - but there they don't even need it. These towns are also visited by caravans.
So i guess it's me (who doesn't mind the absence of vegetation on the banks of the rivers) who lacks common sense and "basic scientific knowledge" - as you call it - while you are completely rational about farmers being in the wild with the company of mutants, raiders, mercs and wildlife with no NCR to protect them and farming their crops without fear.
I ask because it seems like alot of people read my post with blindfolds on. I explain things clearly and yet I have to repeat myself several times. Gets annoying.
All the locations I have listed have WATER. You can go to a fountain or toilet and drink from it. Therefore there is water. Where there is people there is water, if there is no water, the people will not be there for long. The people of Rivet City could have brought soil on board. Made raised plant beds all over the deck. Hell you don't even need soil to grow plants. They could have made Green Houses. Megaton could have also had planter beds, they had enough room to plant rows of corn.
They could have had a green house as well. Rivet City, Arefu, Tenpenny Tower and Megaton all very well protected from raiders. So your talk of "oh they can't because of raiders" is a total load. Shady Sands had to deal with the Khans, and they were more advanced than pretty much everyone in DC and over a hundred years before Fallout 3 to boot. Everyone else in the core regon had to deal with slavers, raiders and the Master's Army of Super Mutants.
People need fresh food. I am sure people would want to grow crops simply because they would be tired of eating 200 year old food. Growing crops is free, were as buying 200 year old food is not. They could have also had living trees and plants.
All the locations I have listed have WATER. You can go to a fountain or toilet and drink from it. Therefore there is water. Where there is people there is water, if there is no water, the people will not be there for long. The people of Rivet City could have brought soil on board. Made raised plant beds all over the deck. Hell you don't even need soil to grow plants. They could have made Green Houses. Megaton could have also had planter beds, they had enough room to plant rows of corn.
They could have had a green house as well. Rivet City, Arefu, Tenpenny Tower and Megaton all very well protected from raiders. So your talk of "oh they can't because of raiders" is a total load. Shady Sands had to deal with the Khans, and they were more advanced than pretty much everyone in DC and over a hundred years before Fallout 3 to boot. Everyone else in the core regon had to deal with slavers, raiders and the Master's Army of Super Mutants.
People need fresh food. I am sure people would want to grow crops simply because they would be tired of eating 200 year old food. Growing crops is free, were as buying 200 year old food is not. They could have also had living trees and plants.
Err have you played the originals? Because shady sands had a GECK.
If it was "a total load" you wouldn't be talking about greenhouses or beds of soil in the cities or soil containers and pots in the first place.
Not to mention that you can't feed a person a with a flower pot. As depicted in New Vegas you need fairly large farmable pieces of land to feed even a small population along with brahmins. You can't just transfer large amounts of soil or grow some plants in pots in a town like Arefu or Rivet and expect to feed the population.
I believe it is obvious that the surrounding areas cannot become farmable pieces of land for farmers to leisurely cultivate plants, especially when the raiders, the mutants and the enclave are running free all over the map.
On top of these the cities already got supplies from caravans rendering the notion of "transferring land to cultivate it" not beneficial in the first place.
If it was "a total load" you wouldn't be talking about greenhouses or beds of soil in the cities or soil containers and pots in the first place.
Not to mention that you can't feed a person a with a flower pot. As depicted in New Vegas you need fairly large farmable pieces of land to feed even a small population along with brahmins. You can't just transfer large amounts of soil or grow some plants in pots in a town like Arefu or Rivet and expect to feed the population.
I believe it is obvious that the surrounding areas cannot become farmable pieces of land for farmers to leisurely cultivate plants, especially when the raiders, the mutants and the enclave are running free all over the map.
On top of these the cities already got supplies from caravans rendering the notion of "transferring land to cultivate it" not beneficial in the first place.
Even with a Geck they sill had to deal with Khans and they had to deal with Radscorpions. Other towns formed with agriculture and they didn't have Gecks. There are still alot of living trees and plants around that have nothing to do with a GECK. GECKS didn't come into existence till Fallout 2 and it isn't explained that Shady Sands was because of a GECK. It is just assumed they used a GECK. Wiki also says every Vault was given a GECK, we know that to not be true. GECK was mentioned in Fallout manual at the back. Tim Cain said it was added as a means to have a Fallout 2.
You can't feed people with flower pots but you can feed people with stuff that grows in a flower pot. :thumbsup:
Megaton is safe from raiders and super mutants. The people brag about it. Rivet City is a floating fortress, they could have easily made room for plants and gardens. The Brotherhood at the Citadel could have done so as well. The Enclave in Raven Rock as well.
There isn't that many people in DC. They wouldn't have needed to have huge fields of crops to feed people. They could have just had some agriculture but they had none.
Again crops you grow are FREE and FRESH. Stuff you get from Caravans is 200 years old and COST MONEY. It also makes you completely reliant on them for food. They stop coming and you are SOL. Same if they decide to jack their prices up.
If you grow enough you can sell it and trade it
Setting agriculture aside there should have been living trees and healthy green plants all over the wasteland. Yet there was only Oasis and later Point Lookout.
Hell even raider and slavers could have grown some corn! Just get slaves to do all the work.
You can't feed people with flower pots but you can feed people with stuff that grows in a flower pot. :thumbsup:
Megaton is safe from raiders and super mutants. The people brag about it. Rivet City is a floating fortress, they could have easily made room for plants and gardens. The Brotherhood at the Citadel could have done so as well. The Enclave in Raven Rock as well.
There isn't that many people in DC. They wouldn't have needed to have huge fields of crops to feed people. They could have just had some agriculture but they had none.
Again crops you grow are FREE and FRESH. Stuff you get from Caravans is 200 years old and COST MONEY. It also makes you completely reliant on them for food. They stop coming and you are SOL. Same if they decide to jack their prices up.
If you grow enough you can sell it and trade it
Setting agriculture aside there should have been living trees and healthy green plants all over the wasteland. Yet there was only Oasis and later Point Lookout.
Hell even raider and slavers could have grown some corn! Just get slaves to do all the work.
The only logical reason why people of DC were such morons that they couldn't even figure out how to grow plants, is that there must have been some unseen intelligent flying brains that hated all intelligent thought and sapped the people of DC of their ability to figure out the simplest things. The only reason why the Lone Wanderer wasn't affected was because he went back in time and became his own grandfather
Still doesn't explan why there are no living trees or healthy green plants all over the wasteland though
Still doesn't explan why there are no living trees or healthy green plants all over the wasteland though
Oasis was because of that ghoul that had a tree growing on its head (did not like the concept though seemed too stretched). Point lookout was not hit by bombs.
Gecks were not supplied to all of the vaults yes. Shady sands people who got out of the vault did have one. I definitely remember this mentioned in terminals and i now checked in on the wiki.
Exactly, they are safe within the boundaries of the city.
To cultivate land within those boundaries certainly can't happen in Arefu - there is virtually no space. And to feed even the 5-6 people of Arefu would take more than a few pots with soil. Rivet city would have to transfer soil on the ship and it had quite a few inhabitants. Besides the fact that it is a ship (an old one too) and you just can't transfer tons of soil on it, the area is not nearly enough for it's inhabitants. Except this i don't remember anyone complaining about food there, so they must have been getting it from the caravans. As for Raven Rock or the BOS base - a military base does not need farmlands as they surely got supplied by other means or their HQs.
As for the caravan themselves, how did you get the idea they were trading 200yo old food? Surely they must have been trading that as well but the main source of food were brahmin, wildlife (e.g. cockroach meat yum).
As for the random green healthy plants around the wasteland a few might have made some sense but not in the way you describe it. Most plants to reproduce need vegetarian animals like brahmin. They can't just pop out of nowhere everywhere in the irradiated wasteland.
I explained everything and if your answer is this it only proves that i am correct
It also leads me to the conclusion that you just want a green world/game environment no matter if there is a logical explanation for it or not.
Gecks were not supplied to all of the vaults yes. Shady sands people who got out of the vault did have one. I definitely remember this mentioned in terminals and i now checked in on the wiki.
Exactly, they are safe within the boundaries of the city.
To cultivate land within those boundaries certainly can't happen in Arefu - there is virtually no space. And to feed even the 5-6 people of Arefu would take more than a few pots with soil. Rivet city would have to transfer soil on the ship and it had quite a few inhabitants. Besides the fact that it is a ship (an old one too) and you just can't transfer tons of soil on it, the area is not nearly enough for it's inhabitants. Except this i don't remember anyone complaining about food there, so they must have been getting it from the caravans. As for Raven Rock or the BOS base - a military base does not need farmlands as they surely got supplied by other means or their HQs.
As for the caravan themselves, how did you get the idea they were trading 200yo old food? Surely they must have been trading that as well but the main source of food were brahmin, wildlife (e.g. cockroach meat yum).
As for the random green healthy plants around the wasteland a few might have made some sense but not in the way you describe it. Most plants to reproduce need vegetarian animals like brahmin. They can't just pop out of nowhere everywhere in the irradiated wasteland.
I explained everything and if your answer is this it only proves that i am correct
It also leads me to the conclusion that you just want a green world/game environment no matter if there is a logical explanation for it or not.
You are giving me a headach. You really are.. I know all about Oasis I mention it all the time. Point Lookout is still radioactive and yet plants live there..
I updated my last post but here it is again:
"Even with a Geck they sill had to deal with Khans and they had to deal with Radscorpions. Other towns formed with agriculture and they didn't have Gecks. There are still alot of living trees and plants around that have nothing to do with a GECK. GECKS didn't come into existence till Fallout 2 and it isn't explained that Shady Sands was because of a GECK. It is just assumed they used a GECK. Wiki also says every Vault was given a GECK, we know that to not be true. GECK was mentioned in Fallout manual at the back. Tim Cain said it was added as a means to have a Fallout 2.
You can't feed people with flower pots but you can feed people with stuff that grows in a flower pot.
Megaton is safe from raiders and super mutants. The people brag about it. Rivet City is a floating fortress, they could have easily made room for plants and gardens. The Brotherhood at the Citadel could have done so as well. The Enclave in Raven Rock as well.
There isn't that many people in DC. They wouldn't have needed to have huge fields of crops to feed people. They could have just had some agriculture but they had none.
Again crops you grow are FREE and FRESH. Stuff you get from Caravans is 200 years old and COST MONEY. It also makes you completely reliant on them for food. They stop coming and you are SOL. Same if they decide to jack their prices up.
If you grow enough you can sell it and trade it
Setting agriculture aside there should have been living trees and healthy green plants all over the wasteland. Yet there was only Oasis and later Point Lookout.
Hell even raider and slavers could have grown some corn! Just get slaves to do all the work."
Your entire argument is "raiders make it impossible for people do do anything." Really Raider are stopping people from growing corn in the nice safe confines of their town? I suppose they are also roaming the wasteland killing every sapling and sprouts.
I am seriesly tired of talking with you about this. Its like talking to a brick wall.There are many settlements that could have grown crops, yet not one, not so much as one damn corn plant!
I updated my last post but here it is again:
"Even with a Geck they sill had to deal with Khans and they had to deal with Radscorpions. Other towns formed with agriculture and they didn't have Gecks. There are still alot of living trees and plants around that have nothing to do with a GECK. GECKS didn't come into existence till Fallout 2 and it isn't explained that Shady Sands was because of a GECK. It is just assumed they used a GECK. Wiki also says every Vault was given a GECK, we know that to not be true. GECK was mentioned in Fallout manual at the back. Tim Cain said it was added as a means to have a Fallout 2.
You can't feed people with flower pots but you can feed people with stuff that grows in a flower pot.
Megaton is safe from raiders and super mutants. The people brag about it. Rivet City is a floating fortress, they could have easily made room for plants and gardens. The Brotherhood at the Citadel could have done so as well. The Enclave in Raven Rock as well.
There isn't that many people in DC. They wouldn't have needed to have huge fields of crops to feed people. They could have just had some agriculture but they had none.
Again crops you grow are FREE and FRESH. Stuff you get from Caravans is 200 years old and COST MONEY. It also makes you completely reliant on them for food. They stop coming and you are SOL. Same if they decide to jack their prices up.
If you grow enough you can sell it and trade it
Setting agriculture aside there should have been living trees and healthy green plants all over the wasteland. Yet there was only Oasis and later Point Lookout.
Hell even raider and slavers could have grown some corn! Just get slaves to do all the work."
Your entire argument is "raiders make it impossible for people do do anything." Really Raider are stopping people from growing corn in the nice safe confines of their town? I suppose they are also roaming the wasteland killing every sapling and sprouts.
I am seriesly tired of talking with you about this. Its like talking to a brick wall.There are many settlements that could have grown crops, yet not one, not so much as one damn corn plant!
Remember that this is not a place to bash, flame or flamebait Fallout 3 fans or the game itself, it's meant for discussing and criticizing it's contents in a civil manor.
(I had to remove some emoticons for this post.
