Fair enough. I have a tendancy to see the good in people.

As for leveled lists, I am inexperienced with these matters, but wouldn't they both alter, for instance, the Talon Company or Supermutant leveled lists?

The esp of #2 has been hacked together in FOMM without basic understanding of how the FO3 engine works and causes numerous errors when trying to load it into FO3Edit, among other problems it's injecting all it's records into Fallout3.esm. This file is dangerous and shouldn't be used by anyone at all as is.

#1 looks quite ok. But there is no conflict whatsoever between these 2 files.

Next example please.

1:http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4844(when it's out of beta)
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3486

They both edit raider armor lists(FEV will once it's done), thus there would be a conflict.

1:http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3002 replacer
2:http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4844
Not that one would use the two together...

They do not.

FEV does indeed make changes to some vanilla leveled lists (Supermutant1WeaponGun, Supermutant2WeaponGun, Supermutant3WeaponGun, Talon1WeaponGun, Talon2WeaponGun, Talon3WeaponGun, ...).

In all these cases FEV removes all entries from this list and instead adds a single new entry which references a new leveled list, e.g. FEVLevelistSupermutant1Guna [LVLI:06003031], FEVLevelistSupermutant2Guna [LVLI:06003030], ...

FOOK doesn't touch these leveled lists at all. The main battle field is in the inventories of the Creature records.

Here both FOOK (always) and FEV (most of the time) remove all existing entries and instead add a single entry referencing a leveled list.

e.g. for CrSuperMutant2MinigunA "Super Mutant Brute" [CREA:00092C4F], both remove the WithAmmoMiniGunSupermutant [LVLI:0002F6FC] entry, FOOK adds XZXInventoryCompleteMutantLvl2Minigun [LVLI:05031249], FEV adds FEVLevelistSupermutant2BigGun [LVLI:06003037].

Both of these level lists then spread out in a whole hierarchy of more leveled lists (but differently structured hierarchies in both cases).

So a leveled list merger isn't going to help at all here.

Now, you could be asking for an inventory merger instead. But what could it possibly do here? It realizes that WithAmmoMiniGunSupermutant gets removed, so it will remove that from the final merge result. It realizes that both XZXInventoryCompleteMutantLvl2Minigun and FEVLevelistSupermutant2BigGun get added, so it adds both of them into the final merge.

But both of these leveled lists will expand into a complete inventory, so your Super Mutants end up with a double inventory, once according to FOOK and once according to FEV. That's not really going to work well, is it?

^ - Thank you for explaing that for me I think that I understand now.

I'd like to once again request that CRAFT be added to Group 0 of this mod (in case you missed my last post on this issue), just so that we can get as many people as possible using it as quickly as possible.

Great work you guys are doing This is becoming an FCOM of sorts for Fallout 3

No conflict (at least right now).

There is a conflict with FOOK for CondRaider1Helmet01 [LVLI:000A84CA]. BUT! CondRaider1Helmet01 [LVLI:000A84CA] in fawkesmask.esp is actually a dirty edit! The record is identical to the on from Fallout3.esm.

While a leveled list merger would probably resolve this, what really should happen is that the Guy Fawkes Mask mod is properly cleaned up.


Again. No conflict at all with FEV.

There is one with FOOK in CondLaserPistolEnclave [LVLI:0007D41E]. Where both FOOK and Wattz remove all original items and add a set of (different) new items each. A leveled list merger could merge these together. But does that really make sense in this context? There are naturally massive conflicts between this mod and FOOK on the WEAP records itself already that can't be resolved in any meaningful way automatically.

Next example please? I just want to have one example that I can look at that makes sense so that I can work on that to develope a merge algo that produces usable results. So far I've got none.

Either manual patches will have to be created by someone looking at all the details and making meaningful choice that go far beyond what an automated system can do, or FOOK and FEV must be redesigned to use a common master with a common leveled list structure in which case a leveled list merger could start to become useful.


Seconded.

tbh are mods like FEV and FOOK not intended to be used together. We change both the same aspects of the game, it doesn't make sense to run both.

FO3Edit 2.2.5 EXPERIMENTAL has just been http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?s=&showtopic=915003&view=findpost&p=14023046 which adds list merging.

It would be very easy infact to make any new weapon addition to the game compatible with FEV (and probably FOOK I wont say deffinately as I have not looked at his level lists.)

This would mean that basically any weapon anyone wanted to be added to work with FEV that I do not see should be put "into FEV" can be made compatible via a esp aslong as the authers permission is recieved.

Of course the intergration and compatability would not recieve the initial effort I put into one being "In FEV" however if the person requesting the compatability esp could give me this information:

Which current Vanilla or FEV item the new item is most like.
Whether it should be rare or common
and Whether it should be specific to ONE faction or to the wide range.

Also I could just add them to the Venders if that would be preferable.
(As of yet FEV does not change Venders but a second Esp will be made that edits Venders after the main release sometime soon.)

That's not going to stop people from wanting to use them together. Frans, OOO and WarCry were never intended to be used together. People do it all the time using FCOM now.

This has "leveled list merging" in its description. I'm at school, so I can't verify if it works.

http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=970662

i never played Oblivion so i don't know what these mods changed but FOOK has a totaly different balance and thus any combination with other mods that add weapons won't fit into the overall balance not to mention other problems, thats what i mean with not intended to work together. It is not that i don't want ppl to use FOOK with FEV for example its just that the result will not be satisfying.

Frans, OOO and WarCry are 3 complete overhaul mods that totally change the balance of the game. There is a huge amount of overlap. People still want to use these mods together and thanks to FCOM they can.

Take a look at this to get an understand of what FCOM is and does: http://devnull.devakm.googlepages.com/convergence

FCOM takes all these mods and creates a finely balanced by puting the pieces together just right.

You can be sure that if FOIP doesn't grow into something like FCOM for F3 then another project will.

Hahaha Elm you seem to have been looking quite closely at both FEV and FOOK...
Im quite embarassed now as alot of the Beta was "Botched" together.

I however am thinking of (in the future) creating more Var*PeopleOfFaction* thus expanding my Levelled trees to start even earlier.
However this section of my work will probably be donated to be put in MMM to save large compatability problems at a later date.

This would then irradicate the use of the Original"Supermutant1Gun" ec cetra for FEV and I intent to leave them dormant in a later release.

(So much work, I wish I had a few clones of myself sometimes to do the work...)

--------

As for merging FEV and FOOK...
This could be done by hand quite easily.

It would have some stange and unexpected results but could be done.
Simply take the levelled items within *FEV's VarPersonOfFaction* and make a seperate levellist containing all called "FEVVarPersonOfFaction" then do the same for FOOK, then open the VarPersonOfFaction within Levelled charicters and put both FEVVarPersonOfFaction and FOOKVarPersonOfFaction in giving a 50% chance to get either FOOK or FEV items.
If anything the hardest work would be re-doing repair lists.

If you used the original two masterfiles then you would get all the new guns however they would still have original FEV and FOOK stats even if they where identical otherwise....

As I said, strange and unexpected results but it would work...

I want both! Cake (foip) and merged leveled lists! MmmMmm



This is not of a technical nature like all of the cool and legitimate posts here...I'm only bumping this because I was setting up my game and was hoping someone might be able to advise me before I break everything.
Any help on this would be warmly appreciated. Someone must have an idea what I'm talking about....but maybe not?

I've been able to just replace everything, and my saves (I checked it with three) all seemed to load properly without any errors. I used the new FOIP files and tested with the FOOK and the CFW versions of the full package. No errors so far.

When you say "replace everything" do you mean remove the old files and run the newly named files? I am especially concerned about MMM primary needs module. If I use the new version and keep the new name, deleting the old one, will things get screwy with my stats and hunger stuff? I was considering renaming that one to avoid those sorts of problems but then, that can cause it's own problems, I think.
Sorry if my question sounds redundant...I just want to make sure that I understand what you mean when you say "replace" everything. I'm guessing what you mean is that you removed the old files and used the new ones without changing any of the esp names but I'm want to ask specifically about MMM Primary needs module.

Also, is it now a requirement to use two Primary Needs plugins as opposed to just the one for MMM? So now I would need the "09 Opt Primary Needs" plus the MMM plugin? Or am I reading that wrong. I tried opening the new MMM Primary Needs file in FO3Edit to check and it required the original "09" plugin to work whereas there was just the one replacement before.
Is that right?

Thanks a lot.

You'll now need to use the FWE_09_opt_Primary_Needs.esp AND the "Mart's Mutant Mod - FWE (Primary Needs).esp"

I know its an extra plugin, but it's more consistent with how FOIP needs to work and it makes tracking changes to primary needs easier. Hope that helps,

well you just said it, that is a dedicated mod project itself, more than just making the mods compatible, they get balanced and merged resulting in a new experience => new mod.
It is the same as I do: collect stuff and put it together just on a larger scale but this has hardly anything to do with running FOOK and FEV together.

I don't mind the extra plugin at all. Thanks a lot for answering my question and even more thanks for this fantastic suite of plugins. This is an amazing project and something that has made my life so much easier. I used to spend hours trying to get things compatible. Now, you have to do all of the dirty work, so I do apologize for that. But really, thanks a lot.

All FOIP'ers ....

I'm updating FWE today as well as all the FOIP Patches for compatiblity with

FWE 4.0
FOOK 1.6
WMK 1.1.3

wOOt

Let me know if you plan on releasing anything in the next day or so that would make this work invalid.

i think t3t has also updated weapons today just to let you know

Thanks for mentioning that.

. . . at this point however, barring some major desireable addition to T3T tweaks, I think the version implemented in FWE will remain as a fork from t3t's tweaks. I've had to make a lot of changes to T3T's tweaks, and am not up to the task of replicating them all just yet. Thanks again though.


FOIP Nexus Page Updated