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FOIP - Fallout Interoperability Program

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DOWNLOAD: http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4968

STATUS:

2009.03.22 .......... FOIP is launched! Hurray.


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General Questions

What is FOIP?

The Fallout Interoperability Program (FOIP) is a collective effort by a number of modders to improve compatibility between many of Fallout's major mods. This includes developing a more effective and consistent means of providing Compatibility Patches (CP's) to mod users, tracking updates, and sharing information regarding compatibility issues.

What mods are covered under FOIP?

At the moment, we are focusing on covering the larger, more popular mods under FOIP. This currently includes:

? Martigen's Mutant Mod (MMM)
? Fallout Overhaul Kit (FOOK)
? Classic Fallout Weapons (CFW)
? Fallout Balance Overhaul (XFO)
? Fallout Wanderers Edition (FWE)
? Weapon Mod Kits (WMK)
? Fallout Evolutionary Variety (FEV)
? CALIBR

Over time, additional compatibility patches (CP's) can be developed for other mods where compatibility is desired and/or difficult to achieve.

How do I use FOIP?

FOIP is organized as a series of resources:

? Compatibility Patches (CP's)

The FOIP page on the Fallout3Nexus provides a central clearinghouse for all available compatibility patches for all mods participating in FOIP. Rather than having different mods package their own CP's, a single point source can now be used to find the most up-to-date set of CP's for the mods you are using.

Furthermore, compatibility patches will have a standard description field that shows what specific mod versions they are intended to be used with, which will hopefully reduce confusion and conflicts.

? Load Order Templates

Using the FOIP compatibility patches properly relies on having the correct load order for any given set of mods. In this thread and on the Fallout3Nexus FOIP page recommended load orders and additional considerations will provide a consistent and up-to-date voice when it comes to helping people resolve load order problems.

? Mod Tracking + Communication

The FOIP threads will serve as a tracking resource, announcing when participating mods are updated and a new CP is available. This is a benefit both to mod users and mod developers. The objective is to improve communication and coordination between modders so they are aware of upcoming release dates, and to serve a vital function of informing mod users when they need to update a mod.

FOIP Structure + Load Order

Load order is critical to ensuring proper compatibility between FOIP mods. FOIP provides a framework for managing load order and CP's utilizing a tiered system of mod groups. A mod group contains a number of mods that generally do not need compatibility patches to work together. For instance, the mods might be clear alternatives to one another (i.e. two different gameplay balance mods), or change different parts of the game and therefore don't conflict with each other (i.e. Martigen's Mutant Mod and Weapon Mod Kits).

Compatibility patches are intended to work between mod groups, not within mod groups, in a hierarchical system. This system also highlights the general load order for mods:

? Group 0 mods load first
? ???
? Group 1 mods
? ???
? Group 2 mods + compatibility patches with group 1
? ???
? Group 3 mods + compatibility patches with group 1 and / or with group 2

The mod groups are described as follows:

Group 0 - Standards

? CALIBR

Mods in Group 0 (standards) are intended to always be used when using a FOIP mod. It doesn't matter whether the original mod uses the standards or not. What does matter is that any of that mod's compatibility patches might rely on the standards. So, better safe than sorry. Use the standard.

Group 1 ? Item / Loot Content

? FOOK
? FEV
? CFW

Mods in Group 1 typically add new items to the gameworld and/or extensively alter loot and leveled lists. Typically, mods within this group are not intended to be used with each other, as they each provide a significant and different experience. It is of course possible that CP's will be developed between content mods in the future.

Group 2 ? Balance / Gameplay Overhauls

? XFO
? FWE

Mods in Group 2 focus primarily on gameplay, balance, and mechanic changes. These generally load after the major content additions in order to change or modify the new content to fit the new game balance approach. Again, mods within this group are typically not intended to be used with each other.

Group 3 ? Spawns / Other Content Additions

? WMK
? MMM

Mods in the final group may adjust a variety of different gameplay mechanics, such as spawns or companion changes. Mods within this category typically change different aspects of the game and have minimal conflicts.

Again the load order should be as follows

Group 0 mods ==> Group 1 mods ==> Group 2 mods ==> Group 2 compatibility patches ==> Group 3 mods ==> Group 3 compatibility patches

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Compatibility Patch (CP) Tracker + Load Order

The compatiblity tracker contains an up-to-date list of available mods and patches participating in FOIP. To determine what mods are compatible with mods, look at the bulleted list under each mod. That list will indicate with which mods in higher groups it is compatible.

The tracker will be maintained on the Fallout2 Nexus page for collective editing by FOIP contributors.


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Develepment Guidelines

The following section describes a number of standards + operating procedures to streamline FOIP as much as possible.

Process + Notes for updating FOIP Mods

1) FOIP mods will be saved on the FOIP Fallout3NexusPage (forthcoming)

2) FOIP compatiblity patches will be bundled together under their primary parent mod. For example, "Mart's Mutant Mod FOIP package" would contain all of the compatiblity esp's that load in conjunction with MMM. For example, "Mart's Mutant Mod - FWE.esp; Mart's Mutant Mod - XFO.esp; Mart's Mutant Mod - FWE + FOOK.esp etc..."

3) A text file should accompany each FOIP package describing any usage details relvant to using the FOIP patches.

4) FOIP patches should use the standard file description template (below) to provide consistency for the users.

5) When a mod is updated, for example FWE, a post should be made on the FOIP thread. As the author of FWE, I would be primarily responsible for assembling a new FOIP package for the FWE based patches that retains compatiblity with the mods loading before it (i.e., make sure the "FWE compatiblity - FOOK.esp" still works). Upload the package with new version numbers to the FOIP page, replacing the previous package version.

6) Coordinate with any authors in a "lower" group as to who will updating their applicable patches (i.e. "Mart's Mutant Mod - FWE.esp"). In this example, either Mart of myself could update the MMM FOIP package for new version compatiblity. Again, replace the existing package. In this way, there is only ever 1 FOIP package per orginal mod, and it always the most up to date one available.

Standard FOIP patch file description

The file descriptions for FOIP patches should be created accordinf to the template below. The most important piece of information of to convey is what mods the patch depends on and specifically what versions of the parent mods the patch is intended to work with.

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Author: whoever initially made the patch + whoever else has updated it

Fallout Interoperability Patch

Fallout Wanderers Edition (v3.2c)
Martigen's Mutant Mod (beta4)
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This thread will continue to be developed over time. Thank you!

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I'm glad to see this get off the ground. Please let me know if there is anything on the tools side that I can do to help.

May I recommend that the first step should actually be to go over all these participating mods with FO3Edit to find and remove any dirty records (= override records that are logically identical to the record they are overriding) that might have slipped in, especially in regards to NAVMs (see http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?s=&showtopic=915003&view=findpost&p=14004467 for some new functionality in FO3Edit that can help with that).

Also all records that DO have changes should be closely reviewed to make sure they are relevant changes. It's very easy for unintended changes to slip in with GECK.

Doing this with great attention to detail as a first step will minimize the number of and extend of compatibility patches required.

If there are any questions about FO3Edit or this cleanup process in general I'll be happy to answer them.

Absolutely brilliant idea. I love FOOK, I love MMM, I love FWE...it was getting very confusing which patches to use from which mod and in what order and with which versions, and now it is all standardized! FCOM is attempting something like this with Oblivion, but not nearly so streamlined and simple! I love it!!

wow, this must have taken a lot of work...nice job I'll give this a try tomorrow

Thanks for the feedback.

I should mention everyone involved with this of course, since it really was a collective effort. This includes:

Martigen, Antistar, Tubal, Linkesauge, PsympleJester, The Third Type, and everyone else who weighed in the WipZ thread provided alternative perspectives.



ElimnsterEU . . . thanks for the feedback. This whole process was put together via FO3Edit (credit needs to be given to you for that!). It's funny, at this point I do 90% of all of modding that isn't cell related of course through FO3Edit. It's just so much easier when working across multiple .esps, and it easy to see what's changed or not. Anyway, there shouldn't be many unintended changes in the various modules, and we had only copied over records that needed to be changed or merged. If you wanted to take a look through any of them, feel free

Thanks again for the awesome utility. I couldn't have done any of this without it.

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Also, some of us were talking on the CALIBR thread about developing a standard for repair lists along similar lines. Essentially, the idea was to create a series of empty or baseline repair categories via a new .esm. New mods would add their items to these repair lists and individuals could use the newer versions of FO3plugin to merge the repair list entires (a new feature that has been implemented) into an overriding .esp. It isn't the most streamlined way of doing things, but it could be a step in that direction.

Can I request that CRAFT be added to the Group 0 List? If only because we need as many people as possible using it

By the way, excellent work guys

While I'm very much in support of this, I would recommend to hold up on it till Highsight releases the next update which hopefully includes the CRAFT - Activation Perk.esp that I've send him.

CRAFT - Activation Perk.esp enabled a new (additional) activation choice called "CRAFT" on all vanilla workbenches without the need to modify either the vanilla workbench script nor any of the REFRs that are used to place them.

The approach I used there is probably of general interest as it allows different mods to peacefully cooperate when adding new activation functionality to existing vanilla objects, so here is a short description:

A "start enabled" quest CRAFTAddHiddenPerksOnStartQuest adds a hidden/unplayable perk CRAFTWorkbenchActivation to the player and disables itself.

CRAFTWorkbenchActivation uses the Activate entry point with the Add Activate Choice function. It has a single condition, running on Target which checks GetIsID WorkBench "Work Bench" [ACTI:00075005].

The embedded script can then do whatever it is you want to do on activation.

In this case it's moving CRAFTWorkBenchTACTRef [REFR:01004A93] (places CRAFTWorkBenchTACT "Workbench" [TACT:01000EA8] in GRUP Cell Persistent Children of CRAFTWorkBenchTACTCell [CELL:01004A92]) near the player and then forces it to initiate a conversation with the player.

As far as I can tell there can be as many perks adding activation choices to the same item as you want. (When activating there is a menu with all activation choices + the default "Activate"). So there would be no problem with different mods adding functionality to the same item this way.

Awesome work! :celebration:

Oh.. I just noticed he has released the new CRAFT already. So go ahead and add it ASAP. I can fully recommend it.

FOOK has been updated to version 1.5 . . . FOIP compatiblity is broken except with MMM. The patch for MMM compatiblity is in the FOOK archive and not in the FOIP package. wOOT for coordination! If you're using FWE, WMK, or XFO you may have compatiblity issues with using FOOK version 1.5.

Hmmmm...FOIP seems to have hit its first glitch. Whose responsibility is it to update FOIP when a new FOOK is relz'd? Hopefully compatibility with FWE/WPK can be made quickly as there are a lot of great changes with the latest FOOK 1.5!

FOMIP to improve compatibility & communication between modders, anyone ?
...Just Jesting :angel:
It's early days...chaos won't be overcome in one stoke, but kudos to you all (FOIP) for taking it on

I didnt add anything to FOIP cause it wouldn't make sense. Its not a patch to make FOOK with something compatible, its to make a "something" with FOOK compatible, get what i mean?
Its for a reason called "MMM3 - FOOK" and not the other way around.
I pretty much just saved some work for Martigen and also wrote him a message about it so he can then add it to his pack and ofc the FOIP page. That i include the FOOK patch for MMMF3 is more a service just like including the CALIBR.esm.

linkesauge,

I don't mean for any of my comments to seem inflamatory. I understand there are going to be some hiccups along the way.

I had hoped that FOIP would've provided a means for communicating about releases. For instance, I just updated FWE to coincide with the launch of FOIP last night, which neccessated juggling about ~20 compatibility patches. Had I known there was going to be a FOOK release less than 12 hours later, I would've waited and released something compatible with 1.5.

In any event, I'm as much to blame as anyone. After all I didn't make any posts on the FOIP page about FWE being updated prior to it's release either.

Regardless, given that the joy of updating the "something with FOOK" patches falls on mod developers in lower groups (FWE/XFO, MMM/WMK, etc...) it would be good at least if we can get a head's up about changes and/or get a chance to get the compatiblity patches lined up for a simultaneous release. If people are playing XFO or FWE, and they update FOOK and a bunch of things break because the patches aren't updated, it causes a lot of headache for everyone. The other option is people can choose not to update until the FOIP patches are updated.

Regardless, if you want to use the FOIP framework for delivering compatiblity patches, don't include, for example, "Mart's Mutant Mod - FOOK.esp" in your release. Go the FOIP nexus page, download the MMM FOIP package, update the "Mart's Mutant Mod - FOOK.esp" in that archive with your new version, adjust the version numbers as needed in the .esp description and tracker, and reupload it to the FOIP nexus page. The whole point of FOIP is that there aren't multiple versions of compatiblity patches floating around.

You should have access to the nexus page, let me know if it isn't working.

Anyway, it probably will not be until Friday that I can get to updating any of the non-MMM files for FOOK compatiblity. I hear rumors about new developments for MMM as well, but I don't know how far off that is.

wrote in my nexus news and here in FOOK thread that there is soon gonna be an update (actualy i planed to have it rdy by last weekend) but well the FOIP launch and my patch kinda came to the same time so i also didnt have a lot of time to get familar with the new FOIP system. ^^

the FOIP idea is brilliant for those of us packed full of mods.
i was using multiple compatibility patches with no real idea of which one should be loaded first (if loaded at all).

just updated my FWE, WMK, MMM with the lastest esps and FOIP patches.

seems easy enough... calibr, FWE+ FWE FOIP, MMM+MMM FOIP, WMK+ WMK FOIP....

*IMPORTANT: the new FOIP patch Mart's Mutan Mod - FWE Primary Needs is crashing my game*
and not in a minor way... regardless of where i put the file the game will not launch.

problem solved simply by removing new FOIP and loading the old 3.2b FWE MMM Primary Needs.

much thanks to ALL modders for making a good game 10x better :fallout:

Really, no problem. I underatand what it's like trying to get a new version of something out the door (i.e. "am I done yet?!")

Cheers.



Hmm, that's too bad. Maybe Mart can take a look? Sounds like one of the master depdencies isn't working correctly. Oh, are you running FOSE? The new version of Primary Needs needs to use FOSE, that could be the problem. But then again, FOSE was needed in the 3.2b versions as well.

yes, i am using FOSE.. but that could be part of the problem...
i am using FOSE 1.1 beta 2 and FO3 1.4.0.6 Patch.

Is there any way to safely update the older FOIP files to these newer ones? In particular the MMM primary needs esp. Should one first uninstall the "fwe mmm pn full.esp" before replacing it with the new one, or would it be safer just to rename this file to the older name for those of us who already have it?
Same with some of the others. Are they any that absolutely need to be uninstalled to work properly and avoid breaking games? Or is it safer to just rename them for now in a current save?

Compatibility is a lost cause without a list merger....

I see, so we shouldn't try at all? Just throw our arms up and do nothing?

Disappointed to see such a comment like that from you DW. As it happens, almost all of of these patches have nothing at all to do with lists. They merge overriding records in things like NPC entries, stats or prices in weapons/armor etc. Even with a list merger, these changes will be implemented and operate the same way they are now.

So no, it's not a lost cause. In fact, it's a very effective one.

First, I fundamentally disagree with this statement. I'm with Martigen all the way on that.

Second, could you please provide me with the following:

• Two existing, released mods, which make sense to use together, and have conflicts in leveled lists
  
• A manually created patch plugin that shows how you think these conflicts should be resolved by an automated program.

Guys, I think that DragoonWraith just badly worded what he was trying to say. At the begining of this thread, ElminsterEU asked if there was anything on the tool side of things that he could help with, and DragoonWraith was suggesting a leveled list merger, as seen in Wyre Bash. Personally, I think that it's a great idea, and I would love to have access to a leveled list merger. Would help tremendously with combing leveled lists for mods like FEV and FOOK.



1. To use the example that I stated before, FEV and FOOK. I'm sure more will come.

2. I suggest that if you go ahead with this, you may want to contact Wyre.



Attentater

That's not what he said. And even with the most amount of goodwill it's not possible to interpret that way.




I've done just that right now. There are NO leveled lists in FEV and FOOK that conflict and would need to be merged. NOT A SINGLE ONE.

(well, with the exception of OutcastWeaponEnergy [LVLI:0002968D] which FOOK currently totally deletes which is a game breaking, crash causing, bug that shouldn't be in FOOK in the first place.)

Next example please. (I'm perfectly happy try writing a leveled list merger IF someone can provide me with a real world testcase that makes sense so that I can work on it.)

1:http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3486
2:http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=548

Only thing is, there isn't a patch for these. Many small mods are out there that add items to leveled lists, and without a merger, they will always end up playing second fiddle to big mods, even though they can be great mods.