Hey you guys remember how in fallout 3 the black widow perk was more powerful because there were more males in the game? You guys think its going to be that way still or do you think they have balanced it?

The description for Lady Killer is exactly the same as Fallout 3 from what I could see in the video. I think you'll get one or the other depending on your own gender like before.

Maybe an upper rank of the perk will be a same-six option like NV had? Although it would be a bit weird to have a same-six perk gated behind a hetero one.

Fallout 4 seems to have a lot of perks where they contain sub-perks like Sneak with Light Foot and Silent Running for its sub-perks. So Black Widow/Lady Killer could be the main perk and Cherchez la Femme/Confirmed Bachelor is its sub-perk. It makes sense for Fallout 4 to contain this sub-perk since same-six romance is confirmed to be in the game.

I really hope that to choose the gay perk you don't have to first choose the straight perk.

Maybe it's gender dependent with a toggle. So like males get Lady Killer but you can toggle it to the same-six option?

Hey, there were quite a few female raiders in Fallout 3.

They seemed to have the exact same dress sense as their male buddies, dressing up in old rags and metal parts covering only 40% of the body. Made it very easy to plug them full of .32 caliber holes.

Seriously, though? We have no way of knowing for sure what the gender distribution is. I'm sure the lower rungs of society like the raiders just go with what they can get and press everyone into combat, sixism be damned. And I guess the more well off factions who harbor some old world attitudes may be putting males in combat only, limiting their manpower in a way that only they can afford.

So I guess it'll be just like Fallout 3 if we have any high-tech enemy factions that don't put women into combat. Its confirmed that we fight the brotherhood, and they seem to be pragmatic enough to let women fight if the CWBOS is anything to go by. Rumour has it its a BOS versus Institute war in the Commonwealth, and I don't think the synths we've seen in the videos can be put into male or female, atleast the frontline ones.And that's assuming that what we saw are institute combat synths and not just loose ones.

Is there a gay perk? I didn't see anything that looked like one on the pic.

Cherchez la Femme/Confirmed Bachelor in New Vegas. It's not in the pic, hence the speculation.

I agree that it would be unnecessary and honestly a little off-putting to have Black Widow as a prerequisite for Cherchez la Femme, I hope that's not the case.

I expect a pretty balanced distribution of each gender though. Makes the most sense from both a gamplay perspective and for realism.

And this is why I am thinking that the "gay" perk is a sub-perk of Lady Killer. Although since Lady Killer only makes it easier to persuade women instead of having unique dialog options, then it is possible that romance dialog options are available regardless of perks or gender. So Level 3 of Lady Killer makes it far easier to persuade men and women with a 15% damage bonus to any man or woman and has no effect on preference, but a person with no levels in Lady Killer will still get the same romance dialog options, but it will be more difficult.

Oh ok gotchas. I hope they include them, I'm for as many RP options as possible.

probably just as important: are there more useful dialogue checks against males or females? (assuming it is not a percentage based system)

I loved using cherchez la femme in fallout new vegas more then I did black widow so I hope la femme is a sub-perk of black widow but sense it seems like there ignoring New vegas i'd say its just lady killer & black widow.

I can all but guarantee that Black Widow will be superior (as will Confirmed Bachelor over Cherchez Le Femme, if they're present). A lot of development kits default to male, and their creation kit is no exception. Unless they have a reason to check the [ ] Female box, or they have a moment of awareness, they will produce a whole lot of males without even noticing.

I sincerely hope that this is the case. I plan on getting all three of the Lady Killer perks so the order isn't a huge deal for me personally, but I can see that for some players having a toggle would be a very welcome feature. It would also make more sense to me since one isn't inherently better or worse than the other, so having one of them gated behind the other doesn't seem very wise.

Yea also the weird perks of getting a finger or ear, what's next EYES!

Is lady killer and black widow a heterosixual perk, really?

As far as i recall they didn't get tied to sixuality until FO:NV. The perk's name as I recall is a pun because the mechanical advantages are for doing more damage to the opposite six and if I recall the dialogue options were also ones that allowed you to manipulate the opposite six. I can't recall them making you into heart throb. I only recall one seduction dialogue and that was with that guy in megaton who worked for tenpenny.

I think people are conflating sixuality with a perk that as i recall was a play on words because it all about hurting the opposite six not seducing the opposite six. And if it is about hurting is sixuality tied to it?

I think I remember also you could make that guy in Girdershade think you would do him if he went and got Nuka Quantums or something to that effect. I didn't use them a whole lot honestly.

The way I see it is that they're either gonna have like a toggle or something for picking the gay perks first or it's not gonna be present at all. I don't think Bethesda had them in FO3, NV had them and that was Obsidian. Having The Gay behind a straightwall is gonna net them flack (as it should, imagine if you had to pick Confirmed Bachelor to get to Lady Killer) so they'll either have to use a toggle or they'll say it's not about six but rather charming people and then run and hide behind their anodyne playersixual romances.

lol yes it is a straight perk? That's why they added the homosixual versions of them. Black widow and lady killer both have sixual overtones colloquially. And why do you only say that they aren't the straight perks but don't say the other two aren't the gay perks? Are you just assuming that heteronormativity is the default? That's the reason why having to choose the heterosixual perk first would be an issue for me--because it is assuming that the player is defaulted as heterosixual. I don't want to waste a perk on manipulating the opposite six when I don't want my character to be able to do that.

I think point was that in NV, you could use black widow to seduce Benny, sleep him and quietly dispose of him. That makes it much more of "straight perk" than just a little flirting to win someone over as it was in FO3.

I never looked at these perks as strictly "gay" or "hetero" perks. Being skillful at "flirting" or pursuasive of a specific gender does not define your sixual preference. The fact that you did more damage in combat to that six even implied your were "working" that specific six in a deceptive manner, not actually trying to get in their pants (tho the perk would certainly help in that effort).

Meh, to each their own...

It makes sense from the story perspective I mean you were married with a child, plus its not like having the black widow/lady killer perk means you HAVE to be straight.

I’m fairly certain that Bethesda and Obsidian both intentionally tied these perks to sixual orientation due to their separation, limitation in which ones you can take, and naming.

For example, if there was no attachment to sixual orientation, then why would Bethesda not allow both male and female characters to take Lady Killer and Black Widow in FO3? Why would they seemingly arbitrarily limit who you can flirt with based on your gender?

Another question would be that if Obsidian wanted to simply expand the options the player had to allow them to choose both Lady Kill and Black Widow in Fallout NV, why did they create two new perks rather than simply making both perks available to be taken regardless of gender? Wouldn’t it have been easier to just make both perks available to all players?

The answer to these questions in my opinion is that: because these perks are tied to sixual orientation.

Bethesda didn’t allow your male character to flirt with men in FO3 because, like the overwhelming majority of other gaming studios (I’m not trying to bash Bethesda whatsoever), they didn’t really take into account the possibility that a player may want to specifically make a gay/bi character. As such there was no reason to open up both perks/create two new ones and they only left you with the straight options.

Obsidian actually did take this possibility into account and rather than simply opening up these two perks to everyone, they (quite wisely) chose to create two new ones so as to provide the player the freedom to specifically create a straight/gay/lisbian/bisixual character.

Additionally, Obsidian purposefully chose to name the perk that allowed the male characters to flirt with other males as Confirmed Bachelor. Confirmed Bachelor is actually an old fashioned (popular in the 1950’s and before) way of referring to a homosixual man while in polite company. And of course we all know Fallout’s reliance on 1950’s culture.

So overall I think there’s quite a bit of evidence that these perks are indeed tied to sixual orientation. However unless we get a comment on this from Bethesda, we can’t really know with 100% certainty.

I could have sworn I read they re-balanced it, sort of. For example if you have lady killer, you immediately gain the bonus against women. However, once you romance a person, they gain access to the other perk. So she/he would get a 10% bonus against the other six. So if that's the case, its not to badly balanced.

So because a THIRD party does something with the IP that automatically has a retroactive effect on Bethesda's IP? FO:NV isn't a Bethesda game. I am not even sure it is 100% canon to the Fallout universe as I can't recall Bethesda stating it is. I am assuming that because of how the ladykiller perk was used in FO3 you can't ascribe sixuality to it. It was a perk that made you a more efficient killer of women. And Black widow made you are more efficient killer of men. Where is the sixuality attached to killing people? It can be used to manipulate the opposite six but again that doesn't bestow sixuality on to the person. having people want to have six with you doesn't change YOUR sixuality. I know Americans often think it does which is why they are so afraid of the gay penu$ in a game because just being in the game means the magical power of the gay penu$ will turn them gay. "So we must stop this SJW trend of being inclusive in games and allowing same six relationships because if the imaginary gay character wants to have six with me it will make me want to have six with him. The evils of the gay penu$ must be stopped." Sorry but I'm not afraid of game content making me gay.

Seems to me I asked a reasonable question and you tried to make it some kind of attack on sixual identity.

But i ask specifically as it pertained to you know that game BETHESDA made called FO3? Not the game a third party studio made, is there actual sixuality tied to the feats? What is the evidence? Or do you think that if you want to be more efficient at killing the opposite six that is a sure sign of sixual attraction? Cuz I sure as hell don't.