Nah, don't need outdoorsman. Just need a good old combat build with 10 agility. Can outrun anyone, npcs shoot like crap at long range(cept for mebbe Enclave with a gauss rifle, which is rare if not impossible, the enclave patrols are usually Yuma flats pistol, gauss pistol and plasma pistol). With 10 action points you can reach exit grid pretty fast. However, this isn't just about going to snag Enclave armor, it just going anywhere, which you can do. Generally though I like to get the car asap to save on time(if you get car it super easy to escape any random enounter, just need to click on car and off you escape).

Anyway, all the games are scripted, imo. What I don't like is the essential NPC stuff, especially if they only essential for a quest, then can be killed.

If I would compare NV to F4 in terms of linearity:

NV - more of visible walls, following the main road to the main quests, 3 main factions - fully involved in the main story, some minor hostile/non hostile factions more or less connected to the main story.

F4 - no visible walls, 4 main factions - fully involved in the main story, some minor non hostile factions minding their own business.

But in NV why players said it is non linear?

1. you had to opposite factions you could join

2. you didn't have radiant quests supposingly supporting their cause, while being only annoying, pointless and game breaking

instead in every city on your linear way to the main city, you could decide with your actions there if you will be on 1 side or the other, and you could decide to support minor hostile/non hostile factions.

So you had importing decisions on your way to the main quests, where it was all resetted and you started again new round with new decisions.

In F4 - it looks the same at first, but

1. you have 4 factions, where you do all the same crap for them over and over on your way to the main quest, so after some time, you are not sure at all what you do and why - I wouldn't call that a good distraction from the main quest, "non linear quests".

2. if the main factions are not the opposite, there would have to be some really good story behind with a lot of background, more like a detective movie, and I'm not sure if it is possible in a game like this - or it will be just grey in the end = not interesting. Well it could still be good if the side quests would be different and would lead to different places, would be always meaningful and not annoying.

3. you have a lot of hostile factions, that should have some impact on the world, but you can only fight with them in this game.

The rest is OK for me - all the world builded around.

I don't know why in TES games there could be thieves and murderers and in Fallout 4, where you would expect that, is nothing.

Not noticeably linear...... and no it isn't the random way I play.

Forgive my very rudimentary drawing skills, but . . .

Fallout 4: http://tw.greywool.com/i/hD8ye.gif

ADDIT: Not a spoiler, all the place names are real names except a couple . . .

In one word and according to the dictionary meaning of "linear"... no.

Because you have the freedom at any time to stray from the main quest and do other things makes it the opposite of linear.

Hmm ... my builds vary, but I tend to prioritise intelligence, charisma, luck and agility in that order. The design is aimed at flushing out all the cooler conversation options, and combat considerations take a backseat.

So I suppose the question becomes: is it fair to consider a game to be non-linear if it requires a specific build and playstyle to access that non-linearity?


I don't have particularly strong feelings about that one, I must admit. I can see reasons why the designers might not want a particular NPC killed. I think the mechanism probably is overused, but in practice it rarely bothers me. Just don't get me started on that one time with Siddgeir in Falkreath...

The goal from [a] to [b] is impossible without transitioning without following some sort of plot opening into a conclusion. However narrative linearity shouldn't have to be confined to strictly following a specific alignment itself staying static as you go through the tasks. There could and should be more branching options to each narrative check-point, that would lead into further divergent sub-plots to push different moral perspectives onto the character to contrast the initial narrative. Thats what would blur linearity. Various ways to get to an ending and various endings to get based on the sum of the alignment choices taken. It was why plot karma and reputation was needed, in order to open or close branches or new paths. Then the endings would reflect how all the involved characters were affected. New Vegas was the closet thing to this concept. Nothing is transparently linear if there is more control on how the player ends up at a conclusion between compromise and consequence.

All games are pretty much going to be linear 1 way or another, AI limitations and time spent in the possibilities in the story.

What I think is that F4 is a fun game despite Beth.

Any game, that in most dialogs, gives me 1option worded differently am going to call linear and not be happy about it.

Any game that does that am not going to call an RPG and am not going to be happy that it said RPG on the box.

In NLV you killed or pissed-off someone too much, you lost whatever threads/forks/roads where tied to that NPC, for good or bad. That to me is the definition of non-linear and RPG while where at it, in a game. F4 does not have this or I have not seen it in 90hrs+ play what I have seen is the "essential" bumper sticker on NPC that again lead you down 1 road.

I certainly don't think open-world is the definition of linear either, it just means you can try to play in whatever part of the sandbox you want. Again as far as I can tell, NLV did a better job, story wise. The previous example of actually being able to get to NLV from start point, other then just going S being the case in point (made it N and E myself as well as S.) while still advancing in the main story line and not just putting it on hold while you make sand-castles in your sandbox, from what I read in posts you get the swan in F4 if you stray too far from the "path". And putting dung "on hold" is pretty much what I have been doing for those 90hr+ gameplay, mainly because of bugs (which most have been fixed by nexus modders and not even Beth). And am certainly not calling it non-linear because I can do this. Open-word is only 1 of the reasons I play and buy games like this, not a bloody synonym for everything it is not.

To sum up this thread:

Yeah let's change the definition of a linear game to proof that FO4 is linear and find ways to defend it.

Start a new game, shoot Danse in the face after getting the Deep Raange Transmitter.


You can now no longer take quests from the Brotherhood for the rest of that save.


Meet the Railroad. Shoot Desdemona after the Courier Chip gets decoded.


You can now no longer take quests from the Railroad for the rest of that save.


Go to the Institute. Shoot Father in the Face.


You can now no longer take quests from the Institute.

Open world littered with linear quests and quest lines. There are few choices to make, and even less of them affect the outcome

As far i know, since i never try to shoot people in the face when i meet them for the first time. Even in games

Yes it is unless you take steps to prevent that.

the way the story was done in NV was fine, however the battle at the dam is still happening and no matter what factions you side or not side with, nothing in game really plays out different but yeah i'll give NV a B+ for story, however the map itself is so empty and locations were almost non existent mostly being one room shacks or a couple tents, and with such a huge lack of human enemies and tactical locations for combat the rest of the game i would give a D, there's like 10 super mutants on the map to fight, 2 robots near the enclave vertibird, hardly any raiders, a few powder gangers with a stick of dynamite or 10 mm etc so the story just doesn't make up for the emptiness of the rest of the game.

A simple solution to take all the linearity out of the (first part) of the game is to not believe crazy old junkies when they start talking about visions and destinies. Especially when they are asking for drugs in return.

You know, like a sane person would do.

General discussion dude, not cool. I guess I should have said talk or kill ANYONE and not just someone in anycase that's just 3 examples of the 3 possible branches of the same storyline, I really hope there are more and those where not tomards the end but if there isn't, then what I say stands. Having the choice of 50 different toothpaste does not give you options, just the appearance of it. Allow for my teeth to rot, be able to use baking soda, a sonic toothbrush or run my mud crusted finger over them to clean them, then I have options, then to me it isn't linear.

@Meltbana "...to not believe crazy old junkies when they start talking about visions and destinies. Especially when they are asking for drugs in return."

LoL

It can be linear if you want to play it that way, but it doesn't have to be. I'm on my 2nd playthrough now with about 40 hours in. Other then leaving the vault, I've havn't bothered with finding my kid at all. What I have done is setting up settlements, trade routes, and doing part of the Minutemen quests. My goal here is to set up most if not all of the settlement areas, connect them all to a supply network and establish a vast trade empire, (with me as the CEO/leader of course .) After I'm done with these goals, say 150 - 200 hours game time, I may decide to find the kid, or I may call it a career and start a new play through.

i havent feel the same linear path that i feel on NV where i was force to go to the Trip no meter what i want to do.

After sanctuary i feel alot less linear event that Fo3

As much as I hate the dialogue wheel I don't see it as related here Skyrim has few alternate options too.

yes I play with the full dialogue patch, before it i sometimes pressed accept without bother to fish out all information about quest and after accepting you can not ask about the quest anymore.

As an BoS soldier it makes sense to accept an pretty routine mission given by an superior officer and then ask details afterwards.

Quests are auto delivered, this can generate issues like then I wanted to report back after doing an quest for BoS however my character start talking about an operation the railroad was doing instead and I did not want BoS to know about at all , yes they come to the party anyway but my character did not want them to get involved and did not know then I spilled it for BoS.

Yes in Skyrim it was easier, you was either in the stormcloak camp then the empire hit or you was stealing from the imperial camp while they was away and got caught, perhaps together with the thief who was shot.


And i love your take on the FO4 start.

Oblivion was worst here as I always waited with finishing the main quest until I had high enough level to farm the sigil stones I would need.

Probably why they keep dragons around after the main quest in Skyrim. Pretty boring to find that you can now craft dragon gear but did not collect bones and no more dragons

Exactly. Take GTA latest game. The world is completely open and you tend to spend a LOT more time doing all kinds of things having nothing to do with the main quest. However the main story, 'backstory' if you will, blueprint is so close to Fallout 4's I would tempted to say they stole it. In GTA you go along playing 3 different characters, factions if you will, and all the missions are very linear, until the very end when you have to chose who to side with.

No one seems to accuse GTA of being linear yet it is very much so. I guess it depends on your point of view and your definition of linear. Besides there is NOTHING keeping a game from being both 'Open World' and 'Linear' at the same time and I think both GTA and Fallout 4 fall into that category.

Personally I think Fallout 4's story falls very flat, feels forced and I have a real hard time deciding who to side with at the end, NOT because I care about them all but because I could care less about them all.

I don't mind a linear story in any game as long as it is a decent story, but when the story stinks and you are forced to keep at it then I don't care how open the world is.

One of the most popular mods in Skyrim was the Alternate Start mod, basicly you started in alittle shack, you did your charactor creation, and when you opened the door to leave the shack, you were dropped into the world in a random location somewhere and you started from there. Of course you could still do the main quest or any other quest when you happened to find them, or you could ignore it and do your own thing. I have no doubt when the Geck is released in Jan(?) , an Alternate Start mod will be out soon afterwards.

It made alternate starts easier. My character went to Skyrim because she wanted to build a Time Dilator to get her back to her own time, and she found the body of the person who was there at the execution but didn't make it out alive (which started the MQ).

I figured a similar story of finding the SS's body would be great for my Lone Wanderer/Courier character, but Shaun, the Pre-War intro and everyone saying that my character has a son, needed to be taken into account. So I needed to get creative and come up with a plausible but out-of-the-world explanation to tie NV's ending with FO4's intro. Glad you like my weird take on the intro.

Probably, but a SS companion mod would have characters like Piper talking to your companion and not to you. That's one way I can see an alternate start making sense.

Unless there is a backstory like mine, which includes experiencing the SS's memories and having everyone believe that you're the SS even though you're not.

Is Fallout 4 Linear?


No.


Does it have linear components that you have to do under certain circumstances? Yes.


Try doing Curie's questline without touching the mainquest as proof.