Hellgate: London did it, same restriction (needed to pre-order and do it within the first 30 days, though they extended that to the first 90 days). I bought it without hesitation. I hate renting a game that I bought. I'll pay a lot for a game once, but I won't do monthly payments. So make an MMO that costs $250 for everything and I have no issues with it. Make it $50 and charge me monthly? No way.

You understand that Hellgate wasn't any kind of mmo? Yes, MMOs typically cost monthly, but you get a bunch of new content with that. The content outside of the expansion packs in WoW has probably doubled the size of the game over the years, and you also get consent rules and balancing improvements as well.

Balancing.... I'm so sick of that word. It never means buffing other characters, it always comes down to nerfing a fun one. Nerf junkies FTL.

I understand about content upgrades and patches, but I still won't rent a game that I bought. It's a principle "thing" for me. A one time large cost for a game is fine, but nickel and diming me for the rest of my life really bothers me.

You think? When WoW went live, Druids were essentially a nightmare to play, and took (for me anyway) nearly twice as long to level as a hunter. After rebalancing, Druids were useful and fun to play.

You are not renting the game. You are paying for online service, upgrades, and hopefully, a bit of moderating. But if it bothers you, then by all means don't do it. I'm not saying it's right for everyone. In fact, it would be easier for folks like me if nonroleplayers and Bnet kiddies don't play MMOs (I'm not accusing you of those, just making a general statement).

Not that that makes a difference. They'd probably try to use VATS simply for fanfare.

Well, I think if you had a MMO based on the SPECIAL system with great game play and weapon decay from Fallout 3 I think it would be intresting. Plus with the way the fallout SPECIAL system worked with Skills the possibilities would be endless in game play. Also if it didn't feel like a grind (i.e. "go kill 30 rats and come back to me") I think it could be great. I remember having a blast in Fallout Tactics as a Melee Sneak and I had fun with my Cattle prod. The Best thing about Fallout is its a game that if it was made into an MMO I don't think you would have to PvP with players to feel enjoyment from it, and that is something I think most MMO's concentrate on way to much. The Nerf people will always be around and I believe this quote says it all "Rock needs to be nerfed, Paper working as intended." -Scissors




I just can't see how you would play WoW and you claim to read books by David John Moore Cornwell and yet you delve into an MMO that could best be described as Hooked on Phonics for the Socially Deprived. In all fairness I guess most MMO's could be considered a resource for the Socially Deprived not just WoW. I just really hate WoW, and here is my reason, I tried the game once and killed a CoW in Goldshire and as it died it smiled at me, so I figured if an NPC cow was happy to die I knew I wasn't in the right game. Mind you I have no problem with people who play WoW. I am just a big Sci-fi fan and I like games with a little more bang and less spell casting. This happens to be my preference of course and I must conclude with how much I am looking forward to all the none Fantasy MMO's coming out here shortly. I desire to play an ork like I desire to slam my head into the pointy end of a railroad spike.



VATS could be done in an MMO. I just don't think it would be wise to implement it with out careful consideration. I would like to see them implement a system that when combat began with some one you would both go into VATS and you would have 30 secs to pick what you wanted to do in that combat and your character would not be able to be targeted by any other enemy and your opponent couldn't be targeted by any other enemy and there would be a 1 min timer that would prevent you from constantly looping into VATS to prevent people from attacking you. I am sure it could be done, the problem would be how easy is it to glitch such a system. We can sit here and say how it can't work, but I am willing to wager that it could and it most possibly will work.

So you never got around to getting some friends together and ROLEPLAYING? If you don't do that, then any MMO is a pathetic excuse for a game. MMOs are all about socialization...an (admittedly sad) attempt to table top RP across the internet.

O that is the thing about MMO's you don't have to be seen eye to eye in them. Many people play MMO's because they desire to beat on people in a virtual world and not be seen playing something that would label them a "geek". The Frat Boy, High school Jock, or Resident Ape at work who thinks RP'ing is something that the weaker of the species play, could very well be closet WoW freaks. However, I feel I must proclaim my Table top cred so here it goes. I have played D&D 2nd and 3rd Edition, Shadowrun, Cyberpunk, Mechwarrior, Vampire: The Masquerade, Werewolf: The Apocalypse and Fallout the RPG. I loved playing each one and if I could find a good group who didn't have issues that would be all the better. I consider many of my experiences playing Table Top RPG's some of the most fun I had with pants on. Moving on, the people I have made friends with in MMO's are a pleasure to be friends with, majority of them are not the RP type. They are the smash mouth and my skills are better then your skills kind of of people. They are the kind of people 4th edition D&D was made for, in the vein hope of making D&D mainstream. To give you an example of what one of these guys think of RP'ing I was told I was a Geek for playing D&D over vent by a guy who happened to be playing Star Wars Galaxies when he said this to me, and I must admit it was rather confused hearing this from someone playing a game that has the biggest geek cred in the world. Yea, I have played with some winners for sure. :nod:

no, please god, no

If the negatives outweigh the positives, then don't play, really. I understand it's not for everyone. But i like to be with friends messing around in WoW, doing quests not because the quests are stellar, but because we are doing them together. It's a shame that WoW is full of Bnet Kiddies, but so what? It's no different than going to a ball game with friends and having a bunch of drunk fools sitting behind you. The game is still going on, and you are still wtih your friends.

Sure, I would be with friends. The thing is my friends hate Fallout, and they are console gamers. The only computer they touch is WoW. I am a PC gamer so I have a hard time playing XBox 360 and when I try to play with them I lose and I hate feeling that way. I just don't like controllers and my friends hate keyboards yet they use them to play WoW. I also have a few reasons why I tend to play games as opposed to going out with friends, but that I can't talk about. That is all I can say. :shifty:

Maybe you need better friends? Not trying to be smart here...read on: All my friends in WoW I've met in WoW. There are still a few of us from closed beta around. These days we spend more time roleplaying than playing anyway. Later on tonight we have a PvP duel with our guild alliance vs our nemesis Alliance guild alliance for the towers in the Plaguelands. They'll probably spank us...they usually do, but we are all friendly and it's good fun. Well spend a couple hours plotting and getting ourselves worked up RP wise, and then we'll forget everything and go rushing in, like the Tauren most of us are.

You just have to spend some time finding the right guild. Guilds are typically less uber on RP servers, and you can find one that is to your liking, if you are still interested.

I do plan to play the Fallout MMO. Will i like it? Who knows, but meeting the right people will go a long way towards mitigating the flaws of the game.

See I played Warhammer Online a few months back. The game was fun I liked it. The problem was I got into a fight with a couple of guys over, of all things, beer. They tended to think American Beer was superior to all British, Canadian, and German beers. I asked them if they had ever been to any country outside of the US and they said they had never stepped foot out of Texas. I got mad at this point and called them ignorant and I stated that before they call other cultures beer crappy maybe they should go and drink some with the people in that country instead of displaying ignorance. I then lost complete control of myself and started compulsively spewing things that should not be said to a Texan, ever. I sort of stopped going in their vent and I stopped playing Warhammer because I just didn't feel I had the community like I did in, believe it or not, Star Wars Galaxies, where I never got into fights over beer. I will admit that I got into verbal spars with people who thought Darth Vader was a ninny, but I was messing with my friends and they were messing with me. My only problem is I just can't have a social group that annoys me, if even one person annoys me I have to move to a different Channel in vent or the vein in my forehead pounds and I become super retarded to the point where I am completely incoherent. Plus I start seeing hallucinations and such, honestly its almost like a drug induced rage, and its way more effective then Psycho. I also get really upset when I lose a hundred times in a row, and me being not so infallible, start to spew forth verbal atrocities that make plants wilt and old ladies hit me with their purses. However, if I do have to hang around with those I feel annoyed by and some how become less annoyed I can often become friends with people who I had a former announce with. The only thing is I have a slight impatience for those who are ignorant of things that they don't know, yet speak as if they know everything about a specific subject or person by heart, personal pet peeve of mine. Any way I will stop now before I am yelled at by a mod for not being on topic. I do hope that I can find the right guild for the Fallout MMO when it eventually comes out. I think if I had the choice between Fallout MMO and TOR I fear I would have a very hard choice to make, but it would be made with out regret.

Well, I can't help you much with the rest of your post, except to say that you can't control other people, but you can control how you react to them. It isn't easy, and I'm not that good at it, but we all have goals in life.

MMOs are social events more thatn anything else, and the key is finding people you can play with. Many players have built in groops...people they know in real life, or guild mates from guilds that move from game to game. It's easier to meet new people if you have a friend along, i think.

O I have a friend I game with, and he is one of my best buddies. I also have some friends i tried to get into SWG, but I got them into the game when I started to fall out of love with it and when they asked me to go and do stuff with them I failed to go and help and I seriously feel bad for getting them into it and then seeing them go to WoW because if the mistakes i made for being so complacent. I truly regret failing them in SWG, because they enjoyed it but with out me actually showing them around the game, its joy to them was fleeting. I wanted to try playing WoW again, but I played for an hour and just got head aches from the feeling I got from it. I can't help that WoW just pisses me off, but I still regret not taking a more active role with my friends. I also sort of tryed to get them ready for the PvP minded individuals in SWG and they didn't listen to me when we fought so they got black listed from the imp buff houses and people stopped helping them because they couldn't fight. I tried to tell them that farting around wasn't the way to go but its not like I did them any service by not helping them through the quests in game that would have made them better. Plus I would get annoyed from some of the stuff they did, like in the middle of a quest they would log out with out telling me that they were leaving. I would get a phone call an Hour later from them telling me that they couldn't make it, so I got tired of having this happen all the time. I stopped helping them because they just wouldn't communicate with me on how long or if there girlfriend was around and they needed to give them attention. I some times hang around with them even if they are my friends they do [censored] that makes me want to Mushroom stomp them after I Bodyslam them into the ground. I know that isn't a normal feeling so I just space out my time that i hang out with them so I don't end up ripping their heads off or worse insulting their girlfriends.

Fallout is about being alone in the wastes of a post apocalyptic world. It's main themes are desolation, ruin and horror. None of these would work in a MMO.

Also, MMO's are all the same. Go to a dungeon and kill stuff until you come to a silly boss and then figure out all the goofy things you need to do to kill it.

The characters in MMOs are all the same:
Silly Ninja - Stupidly overpowered with ridiculous play mechanics (i.e. stun for 20 minutes, turn invisible in broad daylight).
Ranged attackers - Almost as stupidly overpowered (probably work 'magic' in as psionics or something)
Healers - Just to make sure the 'tank' character is totally worthless on their own
Tank - Utterly and completely worthless except to fight goofy bosses (who will attack this character and ignore all others for no realistic reason). Can only survive if someone is constantly healing him.

I don't know how these cliches started but every MMO I have tried follows them.

There are SCADS of these MMO's out there, doing a Fallout MMO would be a serious waste of time.

How do you figure that? In FO2, you could have a whole squad of followers with you...just the size of a WoW group. In FO3, tyo can have a follower and a pet. Go out into the wastes and there are all sorts of people running around. And, through the magic of instancing, it's easy to limit an instance of an MMO to contain only a set number of players.



The rest of your post is filled with silly overstatements not worthy of comment. If you don't like to play MMOs, or wouldn't care for a Fallout MMO, then fine. Some of us would like to try a Fallout MMO.

I've never played 1 or 2. The 2 to 3 followers in FO3 are nothing like a 5-10-20 man raid. There really are not that many people running around the wasteland (even if you count raiders and enclave). A game that relies on immersion and atmosphere really can't be done MMO style. MMOs are primarily social venues and the play world is largely just a place to try to get better stuff than most other people. Instancing is usually for 'dungeons' not worlds. Why would you play an MMO if not to interact with people anyway.

The mechanics of the MMOs I've played (WOW, Warhammer & Clan of Conan) all used these mechanics. They seem to be 'the formula' MMOs use. The rise of the ninja in FO3 made me a little nervous that the game was going in that cliche'd direction. FO3 was a great game and I would hate to see it ruined for the rather stale, repetitive and silly gameplay that MMOs consist of. If you like MMOs there are TONS of them out there with 'magic' worlds much better suited to that kind of play.

In my opinion, flesh out the NPCs more and keep the immersion. Leave MMOs to magic and elves.

Fortunately, Interplay's Fallout Online won't be based on Fallout 3. I almost always had 5 followers in my party in Fallout 2 during late game.

This is what Chris Taylor, lead designer of Fallout and now lead systems designer of Fallout Online said:

Not raids, but they do appear similar to an INSTANCE group. And as you know, it's common to see 2 an 3 person groups in WoW doing quests and grinding mobs. I agree with the social aspects, as I have argued previously. I do not agree that an MMO based on the Fallout environment is impossible.

Unlike others, apparantly, I don't feel that a spin-off MMO will impact the franchise.

No, because I hate MMOs :thumbsdown:

I'm not fond of MMOs either, but I don't think Fallout Online will hurt the franchise any more than Fallout 3 or Fallout Tactics did. Especially given that some of the original makers of Fallout are behind it. I'd be far more sceptical if it were made by someone else, but I'm giving these guys the benefit of doubt, especially in terms of adherence to canon.

I think it's going to be fun. Not sure how they're gonna do choosing different races and stuff. I mean, you're a Vault Dweller in Fallout. What else could you be? A Raider? No. They're the bad guys. A Ghoul? Not really. They aren't taken kindly by most people. Super Mutant's are evil.

It seems like it would be kinda boring with everyone being a Vault Dweller, so I guess what they're going to do is it's going to focus on PVP with the player choosing to be either a Vault Dweller, Raider, Ghoul, or whatever else.

As long as they don't try to make it a WoW carbon copy, I'll be cool with it.

An isometric view would be [censored] too

You're a tribal in FO2, and you were going to be someone from the post-War civilization in Van Buren. Starting as a Vault Dweller is not essential.



Who says you can't play a bad guy?



Depends on the people. The people of the Hub didn't mind Harold, and the humans of Broken Hills didn't seem to mind ghouls either, only the super mutants.



Says who? People like Marcus and Fawkes might disagree with you.



Dunno what you're trying to say, but it would definitely be great in my book.

FO2 was the first one I played, so I guess that term just stuck with me. But basically, I meant your normal, everyday human.



Nobody. I was just saying that, usually, all the different "factions" you choose from in MMO's all are good in some way. Especially if it's mainly a PVE MMO.



True true. And I guess you wouldn't be choosing "Human from Broken Hills" as your character and one of the perks is "Can get along with Ghouls", so they'd just be good overall.



And you never want a Super Mutant disagreeing with you...



I was saying it would be awesome, just in more "colorful" language that the autocensor didn't like.

After thinking about it a bit more, there have been the good and bad from all different "races", so being able to be a Raider, Human, Ghoul, Super Mutant, Beast Master, or Tribal would be possible.

Maybe even a Deathclaw? But I dunno. Something about that just doesn't seem right.

Ok, so we're choosing from a variety of "races". Would it be everyone teaming up and fighting Radscorpions or would it be Humans vs Raiders vs etc..?

P.S. Is it weird I don't consider Raiders human? lol