Fallout New Vegas, canon endings, and the future of Fallout

Post » Thu May 03, 2012 12:09 pm

keep on dreaming
if they're making the next one? lol....well i would be willing to bet bethesda is making the next one as we speak.
Your being a bit negative. There's no harm in discussing it so why are you unsuccessfully trying to moderate these comments?
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Juanita Hernandez
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 2:01 am

I'm personally concerned that Bethesda may want to cut off ties with Obsidian due to Sawyer "blowing the whistle" as it were, on some of the issues with Skyrim's engine and why the game is so shoddy on PS3. I got no basis or evidence for this, of course, but still, can't help feeling paranoid. :ermm:

Eh, it's far more likely that Beth just won't commission anymore Fallout-related projects to Obsidian.

Regardless, I wouldn't mind if Obsidian decides on a canon ending, as long as whatever events are linked to it lead to some interesting scenarios in whatever future games they handle. I got my preferences, of course, with NCR and "nuke everyone" being at the bottom, but even in those, I'd still be intrigued to see how they affect the series. Even so, I respect Sawyer's decision to not state a canon ending at this time, even if he really doesn't have the power to do so anyway. A canon is only necessary when and if a sequel is made, so until then, I'm perfectly content with leaving things open.

Bethesda...no, I'd rather that they stick to the east coast. I like Bethesda's games for many reasons, but the writing is not one of them, and I don't trust them to handle the aftermath of things in the Mojave.
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Brentleah Jeffs
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 10:13 am

I shall not.
I don't trust Bethesda and never will.
And for what they did to the Fallout franchise with Fallout 3 I'm gonna remain constantly cynical towards them until they've proven they can actually handle the Fallout franchise.
for what they did? ROFL they made fallout popular and more fun than its ever been, FO3 was an epic game people are still playing, bethesda makes action/adventure/rpgs, they're a hybrid...they aren't suppose to be like the old rpgs, they're the new type of rpgs, old rpgs were made at a time when there weren't even pc games, lots of em you just played on paper, well this is like 30 or 40 years later, so you keep wanting to drive a model t ford and you're getting left in the dust. everyone else is moving forward, these "classic" rpgs...nobody wants to play, too boring compared to what games offer now.
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Bethany Short
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 1:35 am

I'm personally concerned that Bethesda may want to cut off ties with Obsidian due to Sawyer "blowing the whistle" as it were, on some of the issues with Skyrim's engine and why the game is so shoddy on PS3. I got no basis or evidence for this, of course, but still, can't help feeling paranoid. :ermm:

Eh, it's far more likely that Beth just won't commission anymore Fallout-related projects to Obsidian.

Regardless, I wouldn't mind if Obsidian decides on a canon ending, as long as whatever events are linked to it lead to some interesting scenarios in whatever future games they handle. I got my preferences, of course, with NCR and "nuke everyone" being at the bottom, but even in those, I'd still be intrigued to see how they affect the series. Even so, I respect Sawyer's decision to not state a canon ending at this time, even if he really have the power to do so anyway. A canon is only necessary when and if a sequel is made, so until then, I'm perfectly content with leaving things open.

Bethesda...no, I'd rather that they stick to the east coast. I like Bethesda's games for many reasons, but the writing is not one of them, and I don't trust them to handle the aftermath of things in the Mojave.
I personally love JE Sawyer as a Developer. He's the only dev in the industry that I know of to step up first and have the balls to criticize Bethesda for shoddy behaviour. Seriously, making a few adjustments, then saying 'LOOK GUYS! A TOTALLY NEW AND NOT GAMEBRYO ENGINE!' isnt very professional, cutting corners makes for shoddy work.
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Neil
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 10:21 pm

1. for what they did?
2. ROFL they made fallout popular and more fun than its ever been,
3. FO3 was an epic game people are still playing.
4. Bethesda makes action/adventure/rpgs, they're a hybrid...they aren't suppose to be like the old rpgs.
5. They're the new type of rpgs, old rpgs were made at a time when there weren't even pc games.
6. Lots of em you just played on paper.
7. Well this is like 30 or 40 years later.
8. So you keep wanting to drive a model t ford and you're getting left in the dust.
9. Everyone else is moving forward.
10. These "classic" rpgs.. nobody wants to play, too boring compared to what games offer now.
1. Yes, for what they did.
2. Popular? Yes. More fun than it's ever been? That's subjective, I don't think it's more fun now than it was before.
3. Same with FO1/FO2, epic games that people still play.
4. And Fallout was never created to be a hybrid.
5. There weren't even PC games? I remember playing Age Of Empires, Popolus: The Beginning, Halflife and Little Big Adventure back then.
6. I suppose Baldurs Gate, Icewind Dale, Planescape and other RPG's never happened then?
7. Fallout 1 was created in '97.
8. So because I like the old games better means I want sprite-based 2-d games? I guess I simply cannot possibly want a new Fallout game in full 3D but with turnbased combat and a rotating isometric POV? Shocking, I know.
9. Moving forward and completely scrapping a franchise and rebuilding it into another franchise with a different paintjob are two different things.
10. Oh? Tell that to every Fallout fan that started with Fallout 3 but gave FO1/2 a chance and enjoyed them.
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Kayla Bee
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 1:10 pm

1. Yes, for what they did.
2. Popular? Yes. More fun than it's ever been? That's subjective, I don't think it's more fun now than it was before.
3. Same with FO1/FO2, epic games that people still play.
4. And Fallout was never created to be a hybrid.
5. There weren't even PC games? I remember playing Age Of Empires, Popolus: The Beginning, Halflife and Little Big Adventure back then.
6. I suppose Baldurs Gate, Icewind Dale, Planescape and other RPG's never happened then?
7. Fallout 1 was created in '97.
8. So because I like the old games better means I want sprite-based 2-d games? I guess I simply cannot possibly want a new Fallout game in full 3D but with turnbased combat and a rotating isometric POV? Shocking, I know.
9. Moving forward and completely scrapping a franchise and rebuilding it into another franchise with a different paintjob are two different things.
10. Oh? Tell that to every Fallout fan that started with Fallout 3 but gave FO1/2 a chance and enjoyed them.

this X1000000000
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Roberto Gaeta
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 2:01 pm

1. Yes, for what they did.
2. Popular? Yes. More fun than it's ever been? That's subjective, I don't think it's more fun now than it was before.
3. Same with FO1/FO2, epic games that people still play.
4. And Fallout was never created to be a hybrid.
5. There weren't even PC games? I remember playing Age Of Empires, Popolus: The Beginning, Halflife and Little Big Adventure back then.
6. I suppose Baldurs Gate, Icewind Dale, Planescape and other RPG's never happened then?
7. Fallout 1 was created in '97.
8. So because I like the old games better means I want sprite-based 2-d games? I guess I simply cannot possibly want a new Fallout game in full 3D but with turnbased combat and a rotating isometric POV? Shocking, I know.
9. Moving forward and completely scrapping a franchise and rebuilding it into another franchise with a different paintjob are two different things.
10. Oh? Tell that to every Fallout fan that started with Fallout 3 but gave FO1/2 a chance and enjoyed them.

Good points. However, Bethesda didn't screw up F3 that bad. They made maybe one or two lore mistakes, but that's better than the new Mass Effect novel LOL!


On a side note, I'm confused as to what to think about Bethesda. They dropped the ball in terms of dialogue, choice etc. in Oblivion(hell, in any TES game) yet they pulled through in F3 and made it 1000x better(mind you there was some bits that needed more depth, like Dad asking why I left the Vault and me never being able to say "I had no choice. everyone wanted me dead. You caused many deaths that night.") Yet when we go to Skyrim, it's like Oblivion all over again. I just hope ANYONE who worked on Skyrim stays veeeeeeery fary away from Fallout. Forever.
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suzan
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 5:51 am

Good points. However, Bethesda didn't screw up F3 that bad. They made maybe one or two lore mistakes, but that's better than the new Mass Effect novel LOL!


On a side note, I'm confused as to what to think about Bethesda. They dropped the ball in terms of dialogue, choice etc. in Oblivion(hell, in any TES game) yet they pulled through in F3 and made it 1000x better(mind you there was some bits that needed more depth, like Dad asking why I left the Vault and me never being able to say "I had no choice. everyone wanted me dead. You caused many deaths that night.") Yet when we go to Skyrim, it's like Oblivion all over again. I just hope ANYONE who worked on Skyrim stays veeeeeeery fary away from Fallout. Forever.
I think it has to do largely with recycled dialogue from past Fallout's. They made the Elder scrolls so its only their writers on it, Fallout was already a series with 3 I mean 4 games in it. They had so much great lore to copy and paste.
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Amy Cooper
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 9:13 am

On a side note, I'm confused as to what to think about Bethesda. They dropped the ball in terms of dialogue, choice etc. in Oblivion(hell, in any TES game) yet they pulled through in F3 and made it 1000x better(mind you there was some bits that needed more depth, like Dad asking why I left the Vault and me never being able to say "I had no choice. everyone wanted me dead. You caused many deaths that night.") Yet when we go to Skyrim, it's like Oblivion all over again. I just hope ANYONE who worked on Skyrim stays veeeeeeery fary away from Fallout. Forever.
Now, I'm not necessarily a fan of FO3's dialogue or overall quest design...but both were definite steps in the right direction, and instilled in me some hope for the future.

I think the problem is that Bethesda elected for a quantity over quality approach when it came to Skyrim's quest design. Rather than actually try to write up some fairly more in-depth quests that had multiple beginnings, multiple endings, and with several methods requiring different skillsets, they chose instead to make a million interchangeable basic fetch/kill quests. It's especially bad since the vast majority of "hand-made" quests are no different than the simplistic quests generated by the Radiant Story system.

I guess this is what happens when people flip through a strategy guide, count a couple dozen quests, and fly into a rage on the forums, not only ignoring the fact that all of FO3's quests were much more sophisticated than most of what Morrowind and Oblivion offered, but that there were also a myriad of unmarked ones. <_<
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Laura Tempel
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 1:40 am

The 'ideal' canon ending STILL wouldn’t tell you. It would say something like: After the battle for Hoover dam was won, peace came to the Mojave for a time. But when drought came the victor found they were spread to thin, and eventually they succumbed to the slow attrition of starvation and dehydration. With their masters retreating back to their own borders, the citizens of the Mojave once again held the reigns of their own destiny.
Something like that could be interpreted as a retelling of the independent ending, or as an epilogue to the legion or NCR victories. Doesn’t work great for House (unless you consider the walls of The Strip to be his borders), but then again I’m not a writer. I’m sure that Obsidian could come up with something better (I hold no hope that Beth would, though).
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Lil'.KiiDD
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 8:53 am

Good points. However, Bethesda didn't screw up F3 that bad. They made maybe one or two lore mistakes, but that's better than the new Mass Effect novel LOL!


On a side note, I'm confused as to what to think about Bethesda. They dropped the ball in terms of dialogue, choice etc. in Oblivion(hell, in any TES game) yet they pulled through in F3 and made it 1000x better(mind you there was some bits that needed more depth, like Dad asking why I left the Vault and me never being able to say "I had no choice. everyone wanted me dead. You caused many deaths that night.") Yet when we go to Skyrim, it's like Oblivion all over again. I just hope ANYONE who worked on Skyrim stays veeeeeeery fary away from Fallout. Forever.
Remember guys Fallout 3 was essentially a test run, they had no clue how successful it was going to be. So I would expect them to do a bit grayer morality, though I wouldn't be so sure if it will reach New Vegas's quality, but the Civil War in Skyrim was a step in the right direction
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Abi Emily
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 12:27 am

Remember guys Fallout 3 was essentially a test run, they had no clue how successful it was going to be. So I would expect them to do a bit grayer morality, though I wouldn't be so sure if it will reach New Vegas's quality, but the Civil War in Skyrim was a step in the right direction

Skyrim's Civil War was horrible.

Let's say, as an example, Tennessee as a state believes in the worship of Elvis Presley. Mexico attacks the US and many people from Tennessee volunteer to fight and die on behalf of the US in it's defense. The US eventually struggles with and "loses" the war, leading to a treaty between the US and Mexico. One of the conditions of the treaty is that the US is no longer allowed to worship Elvis Presley, and they agree.

Tennessee is ticked, feels betrayed and wants to become an independent nation because of it. That's the most reasonable reaction in the world.
So reasonable in fact, that it's TOO reasonable. That makes them the good guys. Not morally grey.
"OH and uhhhhh....Also Tennessee is racist. Yep, they're incredibly hateful and racist. That's it." Ta-da, morally grey.

But that's a very cheap, unimaginative morally-grey. Objectively, they have the right to be as racist as they like. Them being racists doesn't justify any of the other stuff the Empire did, and Skyrim should have a right to say "we don't agree with this so we're ditching the Empire."
I like New Vegas' morally grey because the factions are FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT. It's not morally grey because one nation is rebuilding forests but also sells crack cocaine to children. No, it's morally-grey because the NCR, as a democracy, gives every a voice and the freedom to choose, but this automatically has the downside of making the nation be led by a less-than-ideal leader because idiots and corrupt officials are also allowed to vote. That's the complete package of the democracy by nature. The nations of Skyrim on the other hand seem sorta tossed together, with racism being thrown in to provide an illusion of being morally grey.
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Tyrel
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 2:27 am

Watch, if Beth makes a game close enough to New Vegas, I'll bet you 20 caps they'll make NCR canon because 'They're the good guys! They bring democracy!' :rolleyes:

I would burn my copy of FO3 and never play another Fallout game again.

That being said. I remember actually playing TES IV Oblivion and I don't remember it svcking nearly as much as Skyrim has. Maybe at one point Bethesda had decent writers, but those days are long gone. I haven't played a single quest in Skyrim that restored my faith in Bethesda, even the Sheogorath quest made me want to scream. I want their hands off of Fallout! I've had a taste of what Fallout was and was meant to be and I cannot cleanse my palate enough to be satisfied by anybody besides the writing team at Obsidian writing my Fallout.

Yes, I want a definitive ending to FONV, but only because I want CL to be present in future games.
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Jennifer May
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 10:06 pm

Yes, I want a definitive ending to FONV, but only because I want CL to be present in future games.
Even if they're reduced to a ghost faction Ala Enclave? :P
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Kit Marsden
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 9:54 pm

Even if they're reduced to a ghost faction Ala Enclave? :tongue:
:cryvaultboy: Don't say such things to me!

Yeah I guess if they had to go the way of the Enclave, I would just rather not know what happened out West. :sick:
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Scotties Hottie
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 12:55 pm

:cryvaultboy: Don't say such things to me!

Yeah I guess if they had to go the way of the Enclave, I would just rather not know what happened out West. :sick:
The NCR is prosperous, expanded into Legion territory, and DEMOCRACY FOR ALL!!!! :evil: (With Mr. House having his independent Vegas of course :spotted owl: )
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Rodney C
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 10:22 pm

The NCR is prosperous, expanded into Legion territory, and DEMOCRACY FOR ALL!!!! :evil: (With Mr. House having his independent Vegas of course :spotted owl: )
No...NO THIS ISN'T HAPPENING!!! :nope: You're so mean STOP IT YOU BIG JERK...FACE! :cry:
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MR.BIGG
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 6:18 am

No...NO THIS ISN'T HAPPENING!!! :nope: You're so mean STOP IT YOU BIG JERK...FACE! :cry:
Hm? Oh don't worry Meghan, the Legion just layed a massive trap, surrounded the NCR that thought they won who let their guard down and killed them all with ease.
Now as Cali is in panic over the major loss of the NCR army people are revolting and NCR is losing support, industry, trade and production while Legion flourishes.
Legion also found themselves some pulse weaponry which they are bringing to House as I'm typing this.

We're in the clear Meghan. :)
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Chloe Yarnall
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 10:53 am

Skyrim's Civil War was horrible.

Let's say, as an example, Tennessee as a state believes in the worship of Elvis Presley. Mexico attacks the US and many people from Tennessee volunteer to fight and die on behalf of the US in it's defense. The US eventually struggles with and "loses" the war, leading to a treaty between the US and Mexico. One of the conditions of the treaty is that the US is no longer allowed to worship Elvis Presley, and they agree.

Tennessee is ticked, feels betrayed and wants to become an independent nation because of it. That's the most reasonable reaction in the world.
So reasonable in fact, that it's TOO reasonable. That makes them the good guys. Not morally grey.
"OH and uhhhhh....Also Tennessee is racist. Yep, they're incredibly hateful and racist. That's it." Ta-da, morally grey.

But that's a very cheap, unimaginative morally-grey. Objectively, they have the right to be as racist as they like. Them being racists doesn't justify any of the other stuff the Empire did, and Skyrim should have a right to say "we don't agree with this so we're ditching the Empire."
I like New Vegas' morally grey because the factions are FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT. It's not morally grey because one nation is rebuilding forests but also sells crack cocaine to children. No, it's morally-grey because the NCR, as a democracy, gives every a voice and the freedom to choose, but this automatically has the downside of making the nation be led by a less-than-ideal leader because idiots and corrupt officials are also allowed to vote. That's the complete package of the democracy by nature. The nations of Skyrim on the other hand seem sorta tossed together, with racism being thrown in to provide an illusion of being morally grey.

Well, It was a step in the right direction, but still not very good, and I doubt they could ever reach the moral greyness of games like FO:NV or Dragon Age: Origins
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Iain Lamb
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 9:39 am

Am I the only one who, should the canon ending to New Vegas be declared as "NCR CUZ DEMAWCRUCY N AMERICUH!!!" then I'm officially ignoring it, viewing the Courier as the final Fallout protagonist, with my canon ending being that the Courier discovered "the key" to stopping war and rebuilding society within the Fallout universe (a key we'll likely never find in the real world and which we've yet to discover, thus the vague explanation of "the key"), and then I never play a (Bethesda) Fallout game again?
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Niisha
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 12:36 pm

Am I the only one who, should the canon ending to New Vegas be declared as "NCR CUZ DEMAWCRUCY N AMERICUH!!!" then I'm officially ignoring it, viewing the Courier as the final Fallout protagonist, with my canon ending being that the Courier discovered "the key" to stopping war and rebuilding society within the Fallout universe (a key we'll likely never find in the real world and which we've yet to discover, thus the vague explanation of "the key"), and then I never play a (Bethesda) Fallout game again?
I'd accept it, but it'd be one of those Stephen Colbert whispering longingly moments. "Yes, NCR is canon for New Vegas. *Longing Whisper* But I'll always love you House Canon!"
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Strawberry
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 10:47 am

Am I the only one who, should the canon ending to New Vegas be declared as "NCR CUZ DEMAWCRUCY N AMERICUH!!!" then I'm officially ignoring it, viewing the Courier as the final Fallout protagonist, with my canon ending being that the Courier discovered "the key" to stopping war and rebuilding society within the Fallout universe (a key we'll likely never find in the real world and which we've yet to discover, thus the vague explanation of "the key"), and then I never play a (Bethesda) Fallout game again?
It depends on the reason for having them win.
If it's just to turn them into a nation-wide Lyons Brotherhood then I'd probably not accept it as canon and ignore anything what so ever apart from 1, 2, NV and Tactics.
If it's to have them splinter apart as a nation because they spread even futher and their people revolt, turning the NCR, who started out as a... Generally good faction, into a dark militaristic faction who tries to conquer it's former lands through force instead of "diplomacy" and deception, essentially turning them into the same as Legion with it's dark and brutal methods. Then I'd love it and accept the victory.


So yes I'd accept it as canon if they turned NCR into something even worse and showed them starting to crumble.
No I wouldn't accept it as canon if they made them win simply to make them into a nation wide Lyons Brotherhood.
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JaNnatul Naimah
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 10:21 am

Hm? Oh don't worry Meghan, the Legion just layed a massive trap, surrounded the NCR that thought they won who let their guard down and killed them all with ease.
Now as Cali is in panic over the major loss of the NCR army people are revolting and NCR is losing support, industry, trade and production while Legion flourishes.
Legion also found themselves some pulse weaponry which they are bringing to House as I'm typing this.

We're in the clear Meghan. :smile:

You just watch though, if Bethesda writers get their grubby little hands on the Legion, it will be destroyed in some stupid patriotic fashion. :dead:
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matt
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 6:10 am

I hope the Legion has nothing to do with the next game, and if they do, their faction is broken up and apart, with few still remaining.

I also want to see the end of the BoS in the next game, as they have to be losing numbers too
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Laura Hicks
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 6:12 am

I hope the Legion has nothing to do with the next game, and if they do, their faction is broken up and apart, with few still remaining.

I also want to see the end of the BoS in the next game, as they have to be losing numbers too
why don't you want the Legion in the next game?
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Marion Geneste
 
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