I have to agree, FO3's storyline was ok and they had a better antagonist group but New Vegas was setup a lot better not to mention alternate endings.

Wow we must play different games. 3 Dog reported the news. good or bad

NV if I tried really hard I could be "idolized" or accepted by most factions.

Fo3 Talon Comp is a military merc comp that has a shoot first policy. They can care less who you are until there is a price on your head.

Enclave has it all under control. What do they need you for.

Only after Prime and in fighting does Eden try to use you.

All that seems more realistic than "I can force everyone love me" nv "I can back pack who ever I want FTW"

I can even be fooled into thinking I can rule Vegas my self by a robot that in all reality tells you what you how it will go down in the end.

So what I am getting from this is you don't like trying. You don't like the Reputation System and you love your Factions to be one dimensional dikes or white knight heroes.

Talon Company are Mercs. Should have been at least able to make a deal with them, or even do some missions for them. Kill some people for caps, to do a job no other merc but Talon company would do. There would have beem something bad worth doing. New Vegas we can deal with drugged out Fiends!

Enclave should not have even been in Fallout 3. They alone cause so many plot holes. Still, they ask you to help and then they still attack. Their plan which was just a watered down version of the one from Fallout 2 (literally) all came down to "I hope the Lone Wanderer Helps us." Now why would a faction like the Enclave need or want our help?

The dialogue is crap, the ending was crap as I already pointed out we can't send in Fawkes into the chamber. The way factions were implemented into the game, CRAP. IMO.

lol I know you read the lead dev say they put the followers in after the game was made. They did not have time to fix that. Thdy felt the followers were too important. Fawkes tells you its your deal. At least they threw that in. The lead dev said game play trumps the story in that case. They had to make a choice..... Gameplay trumping story is one of the reasons fo3 is better IMO. Even though they think this Fo3 MAIN STORY still blows nv away IMO.

I disagree, I found Fallout 3's melodramatic storyline to be rather pretentious and bland. I appreciated the war drama storyline of New Vegas, I found it much fresher and more enjoyable.

You can force everyone to love you in Fallout 3, all you need is a couple bottles of water.

and what do you mean by back pack people?

They should have done something to fix it. Fawkes will fight by you, no matter what. You set him free from a cell he was in for decades and yet he will not simply set foot into a room and enter a damn code for you! BAD WRITING.

I guess they did fix it with broken steel which ruined the whole Enlave plan and all BS was was more Enclave to blow up.

New Vegas you can talk to and help almost every faction in the game. More options then you can shake a stick at. Can talk your way out of killing for pretty much every quest. Can't do that in Fallout 3 and almost every option is Good or Evil.

@ Styles no I like it, but it is way over board and unbalanced and wrong. I can kill hundreds of NCR soilders and won t be shoot on site until A [censored] POP UP TELLS ME THEY WILL. Great Khans never shot me on site, and the only talking I do with them is with a firearm. I can kill 150 ncr soilders and they know it, but I m still allowed in there main bases of operations before A POP UP TELLS ME THEY WILL FINALLY SHOOT ME ON SIGHT.

A [censored] pop up? great writing Yes man....... great writing really not.

I kill every Khan I see....... They are all guilty by association, but I can still walk into their camp and just chat while I m villified.

The game gives you too much of a chance to force everyone to love you. If they are going to have a rep system do it right. If you kill people I d say thats grounds for being shot on site.

CL is the only one that almost works right, but they still give you a 2nd chance to make them love you. At least you only get chance w 2 chances with them.
C&C lol

Sounds like a bug because everyone who hates me in that game tries to [censored] kill me before I even see them.

What game are you playing Rook? I NCR warns you not to keep pissing them off. They send Rangers to tell you. Still after killing many people of any faction you will earn you trouble with that Faction.

It is not unbalanced. It is realistic. You know what isn't? Nuking Mageton and then walking down the Road and having people treat you as just another wastelander. Sure Three Dog may go on the air and tell everyone you just nuked a town but guess what? No one gives a flying [censored] about it! No one gives a [censored] all about your actions in Fallout 3. Three Dog might but no one seems to listen to him. No one seems to care you killed whole towns!

In the Original Fallouts people cared and remembered your actions wheather good or bad, they remembered and reacted. New Vegas brings that back. Fallout 3 just had Three Dog.

You know what is dumb about Three Dog? He had no dish and yet was still broadcasting "fighting the good fight." Who is listening? Why is the BoS still protecting the place? It is because piss poor WRITING!

Why is everything still radioactive after 200 years? Why are people living there? Why no plants outside Oasis? Why no farming? It is because bad writing!

oh your dead parents lifes work being stolen by wanna be US government. Your father martyrs himself to try to stop them. Lyons bos is weaker than Enclave and actually needs you. They know you should be interested in the project. IT MADE ME FEEL IN THE GAME.

NV has a good Idea, but not swift enough or permanent consequences. Getting shot in the head in a rpg? Come on man....

I was too dumb founded by the reputation flaws and the story over lap flaws to stay in the game. It kept feeling cheap.

What they were trying to do is hard. They did not do the job well enough for me. Fo3 is a heartfelt linear story.

FO NV tried something, but IMO they did it wrong. Way too many chances to make everyone love you. I was to caught up in "why is ncr not shooting me on site I ve killed like 150 soilders and put them on burn barrels"

Glad you said that Rook. I don't agree with your view on Fallout 3's writing but I will agree it is Linear which svcks for me because Fallout is meant to be an RPG and to me that means options, lots of options and Fallout 3 has very little in the way of options.

So many Fallout 3 fans will fight tooth and nail saying Fallout 3 isn't linear. I am glad you arn't one of them.

No ending does not always = non-linear.

carry them to the win

3 guys that ask for water is not everyone.

I hate nearly everyone in Fallout 3, they are all dumb and lazy.

What? you didn't carry your companions weight in Fallout 3? oh wait, YOU DID, I never use Companions anymore.

and giving water to those 3 guys makes everyone in the wasteland love you, even if you blew up megaton and killed a crap ton of people, its ok, you gave a dirty hobo clean water so its all good.

fo3 main story is most definitely linear. You are lead down a path, but the writing was good enough to make me never ask why.

The choices were on side quests and slavers and such.

Look What Obsidian tried to do with the rep needs to stay, but the consequences must come more swiftly. Your actions must lock you out of quests, and get you shot on sight. That is Obsidians point is go make you role play other characters, but the stories overlap and several flaws occur from it.

Look here I am once again bashing nv to defend fo3. I think nv is a really good game believe it or not.

Obsidian s rep system is a great idea, but the amount of chances you get to make every one love you destroys the point of it IMO

After you kill 3 NCR soilders It s pretty clear its not a mistake. You need to pay the price for killing soilders in a huge army right away.

Then it leads to a no canon ending game as well. They could have easily had you die at the end of all non canon endings.

You can t win them all, but you can try........

Obsidian is good........ Dead Money alone proves this to me.

The over commitment to giving you chances to make everyone love you, and no canon ending just kind of ruined it for me.

The rep system should stay, factions should stay, even multiple endings should stay, but they all need reformed to be harsher on you depending on what you do. Also every story has to have a real ending. One of the most basic rules of writing is a conclusion. An answer to the plot.

Well I think a clarification needs to be made. Fallout 3's storyline is defintely linear, an option to join the Enclave is something that I always thought would have been a no-brainer, they had the possiblity for prehaps the only set up (which will likely never happen again and make sense) that would have allowed for a player for the first time to side with the Enclave and they blew it. It still irks me to this day (heck they could have even corrected it with Broken Steel and made a seperate questline to help Eden after you inserted the FEV but noo...)

Fallout 3 outside of the main quest is certainly not linear though. As a player can pretty much do whatever the hell they want (aside from siding or doing quests for factions such as TC, something which is again, sorely missed).

In this way, Fallout New Vegas stomps Fallout 3. Had the sort of faction and people interactions that occured in New Vegas been present in Fallout 3 it would have been as close to a perfect game as I have played.

Except that the factions stuff in NV is so broken and messed up it detracts from the game. Not the idea of factions. I like that. I agree that the lack of any real ability to join factions/side with the Enclave in FO3 etc is a real weakness in FO3 ) , but the way it's implemented in NV is stupid. The way you can kill one guy in the middle of nowhere (so no witnesses) and it counts against you defies any logic. Makes me so crazy I am immediately removed from any fun I'm having. Like those stupid psychic, appear from the middle of nowhere, disappear just as quickly, track you down no matter where you are little band of NCR guys who go all bad ass on you when you've killed NCR guys. What? Did somebody plant a transmitter on me? How? Good grief! It's done so poorly. And I'm not saying that FO3 isn't filled with stupid stuff either, I'm just saying that NV isn't any better. It just has stupid stuff in different areas.

You don't lose faction rep if no one is around to see it. Ive killed countless NCR guys and still have a idolized rating becuase i sneak killed them all.

You say NV is bad becuase the hit squads can find you anywhere did you magically forget the Talon company mercs and the Regulators who will attack you half the time you fast travel if you get a high or low karma rating in Fo3

Exactly where, when, and in what context, what was your Speech, Charisma and Intelligence rating (in the game, grin) and what were your dialogue options.

... and what were the Dog's Speech, Charisma and Intelligence rating ... laughter.

Ever thought, KyleM, that it was a subtle bit of sense of humour that escaped your understanding ... not everybody has the same grasp of such sense of humour, wink.

Were the other games that Fallout 3 were up against that were below!! the “total-crap” of Fallout 3’s award.

Grin, it brings into question the validity of those saying "total-crap".

I hear comments of New Vegas being "so much better writing".

Anyone care to stick their neck on the block and give an example of this stupendous prose?

Dialogue is also a matter of taste. To some, a lengthy dialogue of something that could be said in a few words, they see that as being fantastic dialogue, others see it as just being unnecessary for a game-play context, and not an improvement for the game.

Still, I look forward to an example of what you consider stupendous prose?

What makes their opinions better than anyone else’s?

Awards are given usually by those who have earned a reputation of making a fair rational judgement of a subject matter, overall we then get a very good indication about the subject-matter, much better than anywhere else.

I will take more regard of views by those who give awards on the subject-matter over any of the "total-crap" comments on such a place as this forum.

I take reviews on games as being more accurate than anywhere else, pros and cons are also given, and if it is a game type that I want and like, and the cons are of insignificance, then I know it is a good buy ... I have never made a bad buy yet.

THAT's what makes their opinions better than anyone else.

Linear, not to be able to go in whatever direction that you may choose because the game does not allow it at that particular time in game-play.

Fallout 3 is certainly more open-play non-linear than New Vegas.

The main quest, by it's nature of giving an aim and direction to the game, has a degree of being linear, but even that linearity can be bypassed in the open-play of Fallout 3.

Linearity does however close off plot-holes where you could complete a section of the main quest "unintentionally" ... which I happened to do in FO3 by clearing out a location and finding well-hidden items of the main quest (linearity would have prevented that)... it was a nice surprise and a bonus to the game-play.

Moriarty, the initial quest contact actually said to me, “ you can try to find your father yourself and good luck in trying“ (words accurate enough).

Give me the more open-play of Fallout 3 any time.