Hello there I'm new to the forums, so hey all you people

Anyway I was wondering what everyone would want in the way of fallout onlines combat? Ive seen topics about crafting and otherthings, but little mention of combat, and since combat innovation is what i look for in mmorpgs these days (im a former mmo hopper, i just got sick of all the cookie cutter mmo's out there).

Personally I would love to see something that isnt like the bazillion other mmo's out there, something other than *click*, *spam hotkeys*, *move slightly*, *spam more hotkeys* and repeat until level up. Of course I will try out the game even i it does use this, but it probably wont hold my interest, unless you can level up through non-combat means (which would be AWESOME!).

The combat types which i would like to see would be more of a action-style hack-n-slash, but that may not fit in with the fallout world. Other styles that would be cool would be fps, there are no mmorpgs that are fps with a persistant world, it would be nice for a change of pace. I just like mmo's that change from the standard, i realize that its not going to be a wow clone, but i hope that it means it will deviate away from the combat thats in every mmo now-a-days.

I would love to hear what everyone would like to see in the way of combat, i havent seen many people talk about it. So if this has a topic I'm sorry it didnt come up when i searched :S.

I would like it if it was a bit like bloodline champions, it's free test it. Combat is fastpaced (realtime, no turnbased) but not a fps, I'd rather turn away from fps since even the slightest lag can make you die there

And since fallout ain't about having 30 skills to use in combat (well, I think it should be a bit like the old ones, equip a gun.. eeh.. thats it, skills can be accessed via "s" key like usual) like most mmo's you won't be slowed down in combat by choosing skills far away on your keyboard (5-0). So I actually think bloodline champions have a very fun combat system and if gamesas where able to adopt a few things from that I'd be very happy.

It needs to be an RPG, so twitch gaming needs to be minimal.

But it also needs to be actually interesting. I find the method of clicking on an enemy and your character doing all the tasks automatically to be rather boring.

I'd like to propose a semi-turn based system. This way, Vats can be used.

In combat, each player has 5 to 6 seconds to make any move, item use, or weapon commands. During this five seconds the combat is animated. For example, you instruct your character to crouch and open fire--the following five seconds involves him doing so.

IN essence, there is a 5-second delay on all commands. Granting time for an attempt at a VATS head-shot and expecting the player to use Action Points for tactical uses--instead of a slow and impractical turn-based system and avoiding it becoming a FPS.

Well a succesful twitch rpg was eternal sonata, it was turn based but you only had a few seconds per turn to attack and use skills, but... i doubt an mmo without a lobby, missions, or instance system can handle turn based.

Yes... i forgot about lag killing you...(its been a while since ive played an fps online, must of slipped my mind)

I think a system like diablo, but instead of click then auto attack, its button is normal attack and you keep using it and preform combo's of a sort, nothing too intense though. Just something thats more involving then the regular mmo battle system.

Maybe just something that keeps the player involved. just because when you play a mmo with the same system, you just go into a trance of clicking and hotkey spamming, then when you finally level, you realise it wasnt even fun getting there.

I really dont think VATS is a good thing for an mmo to have... too time bending.
Yea turn based is something that would be hard to make for an mmo with a persistant world, outside cities would be all matches/missions or something like that.

wouldn't it work to have one potshot "ability", then head, torso, left arm, right arm etc. that you bind to your keys. similar to vats but without the need to pause the game to target a bodypart.

I'd like to see a fps/rpg hybrid system similar to what Tabula Rasa had. You had to aim at a target, but it wasn't 'twitch' gaming because the hit boxes were big enough and actual hit/misses were calculated using RPG dice mechanics.

Toss in next attack buff abilities for targeted shots. For example, you hit a button and the next shot is calculated as a head shot if you're using an appropriate weapon capable of targeted shots. Using this method, targeted shots could even be calculated using the same formulas as FO1+2 (although they'd probably need to be tweaked). The weapons ROF could even be increased when making targeted shots to similate the extra action point a targeted shot would cost in FO1+2.

I think the general idea is to make something that's based on balance but gives way to skill. Waiting to perform actions svcks ... period. Doesn't matter how you tart it up, it hasn't been done in a way that's instilled the idea of a game you can sit down and play and not get caught up in the tedious garbage of planning your moves. The closest anyone has come to getting a TBS system into a popular game (i mean sales popular, not personal opinion popular) since the (successful) Final Fantasy games is Fallout 3 - because it was totally optional. you could run n gun or you could plan your attack. it suited those who loved the old games, but didn't want to sacrifice looking down the barrel of a gatling gun as an enemies limbs fell off their bodies.

this goes DOUBLY in an MMO ... so you have to make it something that the player WANTS to do. Rather than going the "I can activate VATS whenever i like an blow you away from 600 yards with my scoped magnum." make it something you have to work for. As you score hits you gain "VATS Power" (VP), as you are hit you gain a little more VP. eventually one (or both players) have enough VP to activate the VATS system and things can get more interesting. both (or all) players engaged in battle enter the VATS system and AP (based on some kind of stat calculation rather than damage dealt/received) is distributed amongst the areas you with to shoot, once all players have decided - battle continues as cinematic and the drops back to FPS upon resolution. Much like we've all seen to date.

PROS:
-every one gets a shot.
-no one has to be on the receiving end of a brutal onslaught of laser minigun fire without getting a few shots in themselves.

CONS:
-you can shoot and ... well that's about it. depending on your given AP - you will either get to make some extra shots - or take some extra shots. evasion? not really if we're talking F3 VATS - just shoot and hope they don't get you before you get them.
-dropping back into FPS after activation of VATS can be as aggravating as lag.

IMPROVEMENTS:
rather than making VATS linear as to what you can do - allow for more interesting abilities in VATS.
- the ability to move behind nearby cover
- the ability to activate a stealth boy and retreat
- change weapons as an action or load specific ammunition

this isn't the only way to improve vats.
- add passive abilities/ items (intuitionboy!) which allow you to identify another player's selection of attacks and counterattack accordingly.
- add a type of toolbar that allows you certain feats while in the VATS system. (Vault-Tech Auto Target System Enhancement Tool - VATSET)
- base VATS(ET) abilities on certain character stats which will allow more specialized use of the combat system. (i.e. - a character with high agility will be allowed more AP, yet melee attacks are weaker [without proper STR] and abilities with long range weapons are less effective [without proper PER] BUT - they have a VATSET ability that allows them to fire 2x or 3x their normal rate once per VATS initiation.)
- allow VATS-based killshots to be saved as videos into your PIPBOY for gloating rights!


hi guise, nice to be a part of the community.
how'd i do for my first post?

I thought tabula rasa was third person?

But i would also like to see some sort of shooter/rpg hybrid, it would be a fun system that would really fit with the fallout universe i think.

Skills for specific body parts would be cool too, as well as weapon upgrades that allow greater damage to certain limbs. Twitch base gameplay would not be a good sort for an mmo for lag reasons now that ive thought about it more. you need some sort of midground with speed, too much time and its boring, too little time it unfair for lag reasons...

It was, but i was referring to the combat style which was based on the basic FPS system; crosshairs, aim, shoot. It's used in most TPS games, but it was originally used in FPS shooters (IE, Wolfenstien, RoT, DOOM, ect) and later addapted to TPS games, thus, the basic FPS combat system.

It was, but i was referring to the combat style which was based on the basic FPS system; crosshairs, aim, shoot. It's used in most TPS games, but it was originally used in FPS shooters (IE, Wolfenstien, RoT, DOOM, ect) and later addapted to TPS games, thus, the basic FPS combat system.


The original Deus Ex implemented a similar format to good effect.

I would much prefer a semi-turn based concept that utilizes the Action Points we've seen in all Fallout games--but I understand some of it's difficulties. I would find such a simple system effective if it was tweaked enough for Fallout.

I think fallout online combat should be used with the keypad on the right side of the keyboard. You click on an enamy player and an image of them shows in the corner showing the chance to hit each body part. you could press 7 to switch between a melee/unarmed weapon and a gun, 8 to attack the head, and 9 to use a stimpack. 4 and 6 would attack the arms and 5 would attack the torso. 1 and 3 woould attack the legs and 2 could be used to attack the enemys weapon. This way the game does not have to be slowed down in a turn by turn version, and players would not have to deal with lag if it wasan fps.

It was, but i was referring to the combat style which was based on the basic FPS system; crosshairs, aim, shoot. It's used in most TPS games, but it was originally used in FPS shooters (IE, Wolfenstien, RoT, DOOM, ect) and later addapted to TPS games, thus, the basic FPS combat system.


The original Deus Ex implemented a similar format to good effect.

I would much prefer a semi-turn based concept that utilizes the Action Points we've seen in all Fallout games--but I understand some of it's difficulties. I would find such a simple system effective if it was tweaked enough for Fallout.

I always thought the system in Deus Ex was clunky and bleh at best, which is why i almost always went with a stealthy melee type character.

The main issue with doing a turnbased system now is that it just doesn't have any market apeal. Most players want to see epic flowing battles, not fire a shot and wait 2 minutes for the other guy to make thier move.

AP does need to be incorperated though, i think it should effect how fast you perform actions. Where it would take someone with 1 AP a minute to fire 2 rounds, someone with 10 AP could fire 10. It would have to be tweaked and balanced though, to keep agility from becomming the one stat everyone maxes

I agree, a turn-based system in the literal old-FO style would not be appropriate for FOOL. Which I why I suggested a semi-turn based concept in which each player has 5 seconds to set a queue of instructions for their character. Though the character animates and completes the actions (if AP allows) in real-time, the instructions they follow may have a few second delay.

This allows AP to be important while keeping the action flowing in a way appropriate for an online game.

I agree, a turn-based system in the literal old-FO style would not be appropriate for FOOL. Which I why I suggested a semi-turn based concept in which each player has 5 seconds to set a queue of instructions for their character. Though the character animates and completes the actions (if AP allows) in real-time, the instructions they follow may have a few second delay.

This allows AP to be important while keeping the action flowing in a way appropriate for an online game.

That's sounds a lot like the system most MMOs follow, where you can que up your next actions. IMO, FOOL really can't go this route, there are already more than enough MMOs that follow that command scheme.

Why can't they? It works doesn't it? please give reasons other than that other mmo do it.
Simpsons show has done everything, but everyone else does what they've done Well I guess we're just a couple of problem solvers

There are way more WoW clones then clones of the Simpsons...
But I can think of a few reasons

1. its a dull, lifeless system that takes the grinding to its peak. You do the same actions over and over to get another spell that you just hotkey again,intern just to do the same actions.

2. there is no market for things that are the same(people get sick of the seeing the same thing over and over), if FOOL uses this system there is little to set themselves apart from the competition (apart from the FO setting)

3. it doesnt show innovation or creativity, which people look for in games.

4. it shows that the really didnt care thinking up something new, so they just went "hey, it works. Its less work for us to not be original". Which means they dont care about the audience, only about making money, that means they have a lack of respect for the consumer. why pay for a game that the developers dont care about? or why fund a developer that doesnt care about the end product?

5. idk if i said this already... BUT THE SYSTEM svckS....... yea, encase you didnt realize, im not very fond of WoW....

Lets face it, in an MMORPG 99% of pre-endgame play is grinding or questing, which always involves killing things. If the combat is just the same formula, its going to be bad and not warrant many subscrptions

I don't think that the WoW style MMO combat is more repetative then having a gun and shooting it at what's in your crosshair. If you don't like TAB-targeting, ability based combat, odds are you won't like the general slew of MMO's out there. You'll go for either a fringe game or a game that is in essence a FPS game, a Counter Strike clone if you will (none of the two being the first in it's genre but both becoming the standard, the game to beat and they are both still huge for some reason).

So you either go with TAB/click-targeting and then use abilites, or you shoot at what ever you can aim at with your crosshair. Well, you can also use abilites to fire at what you have your crosshair over, a mix between the two. You can have combo points and the likes and there are fine tunings of the above mentioned styles of MMO combat as well.

gamesas have stated that they aren't making a Fallout 1/2 or V.A.T.S combat system but rather a S.P.E.C.I.A.L system that works for an MMO, whatever that means. The character and how it's build is suppose to make out about half of the importance in the combat equation, and the skill of the player, what gear he has etc is the other half. On paper, a marriage between FPS and RPG then? I glanced at Bloodline Champions and I really hope that Fallour Online won't be anything like that. Or should I say that I fear that it will?

I use to like the WoW system, until it was over used, then it just got boring.
FPS games (like CoD and Halo and stuff) I dont find that fun, mostly because xbox live is a cesspool filled mostly with 13 year olds who think there cool and cant spell (they also have a gun in their gamertag, XxX at the beginning and end of it, and act like a bunch of assholes), 25 year olds who act like the 13 year old loosers, or 40 year olds who still live with their parents acting like the 13/25 year olds... (/rant over)

But i only said fps because it would be very original, there are many MMO's that are fps, no mmorpg's though

But the olny reason why i like FO3/NV is cuz they are a slower pace then most fps games, if its too fast you just loose focus.

I can only hope they dont use a system thats been done to death, they should pull out all the stops to make the game different from the gazillion other mmorpg's out there.

I think they shouldnt make combat the main way to level, quests that use the barter, speech, science, sneek and other non-combat ones would be a great idea to use IMO.

I'm interested to see what's in store for the combat system here. I for one can only think of 2 viable options,

1) The crosshair and click method that a handful of MMO's are using today, it's not the best or worst but it can be a game breaker if not implimented properly. The term "Whap whap whap whap whap whap whap" comes to mind with this method of gaming.

2) Tab/Lock targeting is the other which basically requires no skill aside from hitting the Tab key to move to the next target and mash your action keys while watching your cooldown timers. Again, not the best or worst but can get boring at times and become repetitive in some cases causing combat to be very slow, (Should it really take 5 minutes to kill something after about 20 headshots?)


Whatever the special system is that they are working towards, I'm curious to know a little more about it. I have full confidence in gamesas that they will not push out something that will destroy their chances of success, they company depends on it. I do hope that it's something that requires a little bit of skill and not just a dull whap whap whap whap whap tab target system.

Well guys, We already know that this game is a third person view mmo based upon the screen shots from a while ago. If the idea for third person has changed then OK but last time I checked it's from that view. I actually wouldn't mind a combat system like WoW but it should be way more fast paced.
I'm interested as to know what things will be hot keyed.. Would it be like, Fast shot, Power shot etc for gun users and Heavy attack, Light swing and stuff for melee users? Also, If there are raids and dungeons I think it would be interesting to see healing. Would there be a person with a high healing stat who would apply stimpacks and things to players while they fight? I'm extremely eager to know so much about this game hahah. War.. War never changes.